Heading West—Camper or Train?

[MrLynn]

We’ve been talking about heading west to visit the sites that everyone has seen but us: the Grand Canyon, and all the other national parks in Utah and Arizona (to start). And we now have the camper to do it: an Escape 21C. But we live in eastern Massachusetts, and hesitate at the prospect of endless driving just to get there. Touring in southern states after picking up the 21C in Kentucky, we found that more than four or five hours of driving at a time became wearying, even with a pause for a mid-day nap in the trailer (when you can find a stop without diesel engines idling next to you). And I really don’t relish the idea of spending more than a month away from home.

An alternative is Amtrak. I’m a railfan, and love riding trains. We have a lot of Amtrak Guest Rewards points (accumulated over the last two years when I refused to get on a train wearing a mask). Amtrak is affiliated with a ‘Vacations’ agency that offers packages of sleeper cars and hotels, and bus or rental-car transport to towns and parks; they are pretty flexible. It would make getting out West pretty quick. Yes, I know flying would be quicker, but I really dislike the cattle-car ambiance of today’s airlines, and trains are more fun, and the scenery is better.

So the train is attractive, but it would be a shame to get out West and not have our own, private, handy-dandy camping trailer, with our own galley and bathroom, and the flexibility to go wherever we want. The ideal would be a version of the VA-FL Auto-Train that let you take your camper and tow vehicle on the train out West, so then you’d still have plenty of time to visit not just the well-known sites, but some that are equally attractive but less popular. But, alas, Amtrak has no such option.

I know many dedicated RVers here think nothing of taking six months at a time to travel all around the country in their campers, but that’s not me. I like my oversize house and cluttered office. After almost a month on the road (including a week’s visit to daughter and family in Virginia), I was really glad to get home.

Of course there are places to go here in the East. Next week we’re heading to Brunswick, Maine for the Thomas Point Beach Bluegrass Festival, and from there we’re going to Acadia National Park (which we’ve never seen, either). Perfect use for the Escape. It’s the western prospect that has us dithering.

[Randy in Maine]

We drove out from Maine to Sumas to pick up our 21NE in May. We don't have to be home until half past October. We see something interesting every day. Go see some things!

[Upfisk]

A couple problems...Amtrack in AZ gets to Flagstaff but not the Grand Canyon. No trains to Zion, Bryce, Monument Valley, Capitol Reef, Moab, etc. Just get on the interstate and grind it out 5 hours a day till you arrive in Flagstaff. Then take the blue highways. Better get your reservations in order as these are very popular areas.

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Upfisk

A couple problems...Amtrack in AZ gets to Flagstaff but not the Grand Canyon. No trains to Zion, Bryce, Monument Valley, Capitol Reef, Moab, etc. Just get on the interstate and grind it out 5 hours a day till you arrive in Flagstaff. Then take the blue highways. Better get your reservations in order as these are very popular areas.

Amtrak goes to Williams, AZ, whence you can take the Grand Canyon Railroad to the Canyon, a train I'd like to ride. For the Zion et al. parks, they get you to Grand Junction, CO and then you rent a car to tour the parks; or something like that.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

We have a lot of Amtrak Guest Rewards points (accumulated over the last two years when I refused to get on a train wearing a mask).

Why would refusing to wear a mask on a train get you Reward points?

Ron

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Why would refusing to wear a mask on a train get you Reward points?
Ron

It won't. Having and using an Amtrak Guest Rewards credit card will: 1 point for every dollar spent.

[Mike G]

What about shipping the trailer out and back on a separate freight train? Just a wild thought, not advocating.


Mapping it out, I see it's 2600 miles and (estimated) 39 hours by a direct route. Yeah, that's quite a ways. If I were going to take a trip of that distance, I would look for things I'd like to see or do at daily (or semi-daily) intervals along the way. I'd treat the trip as a vacation to see all those places, so each day could potentially feel sort of like a destination. And I'd leave the trip open-ended; if I get to a certain point in the trip and change my mind about continuing on, I'd simply start back; any reservations made at hard-to-get-into western parks could be cancelled (a partial loss, but not much money in the grand scheme of things). That way there isn't a sense of pressure, of "we have to get there even though we no longer feel like it". In other words, I'd lose myself in each day's adventure and not think of it as "a whole month of this stuff". Footloose and fancy-free is the way to be. Getting up every morning and saying, "What do I feel like doing today? Do I feel the urge to put on some miles? Or shall I lounge around, or what?"

[Donna D.]

Is this trip something you really want to do pulling your trailer? I mean REALLY? If so, you'll figure out a way to make it happen in the manner that works best for you. All I can tell you is if you think it would be hard now, wait a year or two and it WON'T get any easier.


Reminds me of a fellow by the name of Merle Lilly. Merle owned a Scamp 19 and lived in Sarasota, Florida. He wanted to attend the Oregon Gathering held in Bandon, Oregon. He made the trip TWICE to the gathering. It took him six weeks each direction. But as he said, he was retired and could take as much time as he wanted. Some days he drove 50 miles, some days he drove 250 miles. He made the trip alone.... he was in his early 80s...

[davidmurphy02]

From the east coast, and limited to short driving days and a trip of no more than a month, it doesn't really seem worth it to head out to Utah/Arizona to try and see all those parks. You'd either miss half of them, or spend your time out there rushing between parks in order to get them all in. And as others have pointed out, the trains don't really go close to those parks and most do not have lodges in the park to stay at.

A couple of alternatives do come to mind. First, you could fly to Las Vegas and rent an RV - there are plentiful RV rentals there and you could easily plan a trip around the "grand circle" visiting most of those parks with picking up and dropping off your RV in Las Vegas. It wouldn't be your Escape, but at least you'd have your own bedroom and bathroom with you all the time and would be easily able to travel between the parks.

If you enjoy train travel and want to use your reward points, have you ever been to Glacier National Park? The train ride across the northern US is spectacular and there are several train stops in different parts of the park, as well as a number of historic park lodges to stay at. Glacier NP is huge with a number of different areas to see, but you could easily plan a great trip of a month or less by train that would allow you to spend plenty of time in that area.

[oldwave]

we have been across the country twice with an Escape 19. Never driving more than 5 to 6 hours a day. Retiredand don't really care how long it takes. Will be going to Oregon to pick up a new one and head back across. The last time we look 4 weeks to get home.

[Viajante]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Why would refusing to wear a mask on a train get you Reward points?

Ron

He might have meant refusing to wear one getting on a plane, not a train. Hence more train travel. More reward points.

[MVA]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

We’ve been talking about heading west to visit the sites that everyone has seen but us: the Grand Canyon, and all the other national parks in Utah and Arizona (to start). And we now have the camper to do it: an Escape 21C. But we live in eastern Massachusetts, and hesitate at the prospect of endless driving just to get there. Touring in southern states after picking up the 21C in Kentucky, we found that more than four or five hours of driving at a time became wearying, even with a pause for a mid-day nap in the trailer (when you can find a stop without diesel engines idling next to you). And I really don’t relish the idea of spending more than a month away from home.

The Grand Canyon and national parks in Utah are spectacular. Since you said that you will only drive 4 to 5 hours a day the trip to the Grand Canyon and back would take at least 1/2 of your desired maximum of one month away from home. This would leave little time to visit the parks and see and enjoy the awesome sights. You would spend most of your trip driving with few off days.

As David Murphy suggested, you could fly into Las Vegas and rent and RV. During our visits to the GC and Utah parks this is a common sight. Or you could rent a car and stay at hotels. Either of these options would give you much more time actually visiting the sights rather than getting to the destination.

Taking a train and renting a car once you get to AZ will also allow you more touring time and help assure that you are rested when you get to your destination.

The best vacations and trips are the ones that are suited for the individual's travel style and requirements. Take the trip that works best for you!

Kathy

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

Amtrak Guest Rewards points (accumulated over the last two years when I refused to get on a train wearing a mask).

Originally Posted by Viajante

He might have meant refusing to wear one getting on a plane, not a train. Hence more train travel. More reward points.

Don't think so.

This reminds me of when we wanted to visit certain parts of the US but didn't have time to take our trailer long distances.

At that time CruiseAmerica had some great deals for doing deliveries, either from Phoenix to dealers or returning retiring RVs for refurbishing and sale. Cost peanuts but I don't think it's as good a deal anymore.

One time we were doing a delivery from LA to Phoenix. Must have taken a wrong turn somewhere as this big ditch blocked our way from going further. I think some folks called it the Grand Canyon. Then we headed South and, dang, took another wrong turn and ended up in this place where there were all these huge balloons.

Ron

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Don't think so.

This reminds me of when we wanted to visit certain parts of the US but didn't have time to take our trailer long distances.

At that time CruiseAmerica had some great deals for doing deliveries, either from Phoenix to dealers or returning retiring RVs for refurbishing and sale. Cost peanuts but I don't think it's as good a deal anymore.

One time we were doing a delivery from LA to Phoenix. Must have taken a wrong turn somewhere as this big ditch blocked our way from going further. I think some folks called it the Grand Canyon. Then we headed South and, dang, took another wrong turn and ended up in this place where there were all these huge balloons.

Ron

I hope you remembered to "toyn left" at the balloon place.

[Ron in BC]

Turning left got me to the balloon place. Parking for RVs was pretty basic but it was close to the action. The 19' CruiseAmerica van was the smallest one they had. Don't mind the 25s but the 30s, with all that rear overhang aren't my favorite. The 19' was OK and the size was right for us but the 2" foam mattress left a bit to be desired. But for 10 bucks a day plus gas we really couldn't complain.

I got to be on a crew and learned how to inflate the balloon. When they say hot air balloon they mean HOT air balloon. Without gloves my hands would have been toasted.

Between that trip and another from Phoenix to Kissimmee FL we managed to drive Hwy. 10 coast-to-coast. Oh, on that delivery I missed a right hand turn and ended up at the Kennedy Space Center. I'm a lousy navigator.

[Viajante]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Don't think so.



Ron

Yes, I think you are right.

[WillyB]

We will be taking a 4500 mile round trip in October to pick up our 21C in Sumas over 2 week period. Yes, it's a long way for a short trip but we felt the opportunity for adventure outweighed the convenience of shipping.

We've traveled all over on our motorcycle in the rain, snow, sun, super cold and very hot but always returned with a smile on our faces for having done it. We've stayed at fancy hotels and camped in a tiny tent in some questionable locations but along the way we've seen things we would have otherwise missed and met some great people along the way.

If you have the time your trip sounds like a 2-3 month opportunity for adventure.

Good Luck and Enjoy!

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Viajante

Yes, I think you are right.

I explained: I accumulated Amtrak points by virtue of using the Guest Rewards credit card. I avoided both trains and planes.

Note: Apparently Amtrak and Bank of America stopped accepting applications for the Guest Rewards Mastercard last January. I was not aware of this, and so far my card is still active and earning points. There has been some speculation that Amtrak might switch to a different bank (before BoA they were on Chase).

[Iowa Dave]

Years ago when my kids were young and we vacationed in the west I often had an internal drive to get going to the next attraction and didn’t want to stay too long in one place. However, my wife and my kids often wanted to spend more time than I did at a stop. A very high percentage of the time I agreed and learned to chill while they explored. I took up the response “take your time, see what you want to see, you may not pass this way again. Boy was I wrong. I’m no record setter but after about 25 trips to the Black Hills, multiple trips to many of the great western and eastern national parks etc., even at 74 years old I’ve adopted the philosophy “I’d like to come back here in the fall, I bet there’s good color in those oaks or I bet the wildflowers are great here in the spring.

So unless you have an accurate prediction on how long you’re gonna live, take the trailer, limit the number of sites you can see and do them justice by staying to really understand what you’re looking at. Start with the history and the geology, go to occupation by pre human animals, cover the peoples who came later, understand the changes that have occurred and contemplate the future for you and the future of the area. Take pictures, pick up brochures, maps and books and eat good food.

In the long run, and you gotta believe you’ll have a long life ahead of you. You won’t regret taking the trailer. If you don’t like it, maybe extended trailer camping with the Escape isn’t for you. Some of the best places are stops along the way you didn’t even know existed. That’s what I’ve learned from going west for the first time but not the last time in 1969.
That’s my advice YMMV.
Iowa Dave

[MrLynn]

Good advice, Dave. When we were (much) younger, we made a couple of trips to the North Maine Woods and the Allagash Lakes, accessible only by canoe. We'd drop off the car, take the canoe to a campsite on an island, and spend a week or so, just living there and taking day trips by boat. I learned about the history of logging in those woods, and remember the experience more than I ever learned in all the places we've stopped at for a day or three, on our way to somewhere else (usually relatives).