Is anyone winning the war against campsite reservation bots?

[skyfree]

The only viable solution for places like Arches is more campsites. It's ridiculous that a national park with 1.5 million visitors a year has only about 55 campsites. Of course the chances of this happening are exactly 0% so we have to live with only the very very few lucky or savvy determined people getting to camp there.

[rbryan4]

I grew up in Utah, and enjoyed all those places completely hassle free for years. I remember weekend quick trips to Moab and Arches, which were always uncrowded. Moab was a sleepy little town with cheap motels and a couple good diners. We didn't hit Zion as often, but it too was easily accessible. It's all radically changed since then.

To be honest, I've kind of written off those places now, due to the ridiculous crowding and lack of availability. When we're out that way now we focus on BLM land, NFS, and other dispersed camping areas. The exception might be around Bryce or Capital Reef. Kind of a shame, but at least I got to spend alot of time in those places when I was young. We leave them now to the tour buses and reservation bots.

[Ian and Sue]

I think part of the problem is the online campsite reserving programs. They have no connection to the actual campground, so not only is there no way for the campground to free up unused sites but there is also no real way to cancel a reservation and therefore make the site available again. sometimes people decide not to use the site due to weather or unforeseen changes in their schedules, unfortunately the reservation sites have no way to cancel a reservation...I am not asking for them to give the money back just to encourage people to cancel reservations when their plans change.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

I think part of the problem is the online campsite reserving programs. They have no connection to the actual campground, so not only is there no way for the campground to free up unused sites but there is also no real way to cancel a reservation and therefore make the site available again. sometimes people decide not to use the site due to weather or unforeseen changes in their schedules, unfortunately the reservation sites have no way to cancel a reservation...I am not asking for them to give the money back just to encourage people to cancel reservations when their plans change.

From the Recreation dot Gov (National Park campgrounds) web site...

• A cancellation at least two days before the check date
• Customer will receive a full refund, minus a $10 cancellation fee and the reservation fee (if applicable).

This information is passed along to the campground host and sites will be assigned at the campground - if they aren't reserved again, usually by folks using search algorithms ("bots"). Unfortunately, as you can see, the price to cancel is rather high, which may discourage those with short stays from bothering to cancel.

Last minute (day before or day of stay) are even more expensive to cancel, plus getting the information to the host may be problematic in areas with limited internet (like Arches!).

[MyronL]

Never liked having to make advanced reservations for any trip. Just won't do it. Far as I'm concerned, the travel trailer is the ultimate vehicle-spontaneous. I'm with rbryan4 on looking first to BLM land and the national forests. The price cannot be beat, the search is the journey, and my addition of solar panels have made this adjustment totally logical.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Never liked having to make advanced reservations for any trip. Just won't do it. Far as I'm concerned, the travel trailer is the ultimate vehicle-spontaneous. I'm with rbryan4 on looking first to BLM land and the national forests. The price cannot be beat, the search is the journey, and my addition of solar panels have made this adjustment totally logical.

One of the reasons to have a camper is to release you from the nightly reservation trip planner......

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

From the Recreation dot Gov (National Park campgrounds) web site...

• A cancellation at least two days before the check date
• Customer will receive a full refund, minus a $10 cancellation fee and the reservation fee (if applicable).

This information is passed along to the campground host and sites will be assigned at the campground - if they aren't reserved again, usually by folks using search algorithms ("bots"). Unfortunately, as you can see, the price to cancel is rather high, which may discourage those with short stays from bothering to cancel.

Last minute (day before or day of stay) are even more expensive to cancel, plus getting the information to the host may be problematic in areas with limited internet (like Arches!).

Interesting...so it looks like the new recreation.gov is a bit better than the reserveamerica one that many states around here are still using. We tried to cancel a reservation on reserveamerica due to weather to no avail...finally called the park and they couldn't do anything but thanked us for canceling w/them.

[JeffreyG]

I think the Ontario Provincial Parks have a good set of rules for all of this.



1) You can make reservations for multiple people, but each reservation must be listed in the name of the person who will be showing up. They do check. And you cannot hold multiple reservations under a single name.
2) If you change / cancel, you lose the fee.
3) And if you change / cancel, you lose some of the price of the campsite based on how long the reservation was held. For a one month reservation, you lose 10%. For five months, you lose 50%.


So basically, the earlier you reserve and the later you cancel, the less money you get back. And no-shows get none of their money back.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by skyfree

The only viable solution for places like Arches is more campsites. It's ridiculous that a national park with 1.5 million visitors a year has only about 55 campsites. Of course the chances of this happening are exactly 0% so we have to live with only the very very few lucky or savvy determined people getting to camp there.

There are a lot more first come first served campsites in BLM Campgrounds right outside the park. These are campsites in campgrounds, not simply disbursed camping on BLM land.



Oak Grove Campground

Hal Canyon Campground

Goose Island Campground

Upper Big Bend Campground

Grandstaff Campground

Drinks Canyon Camping Area 17 walk in tent campsites.

Sand Flats Recreation Area 7 campground loops A-G

[MyronL]

That massive, neuro-pathetic adrenalin rush you get when the nearest WalMart is 18 miles back, it's getting dark, you're still looking, and you can't turn around for that open space on the side you just passed? Priceless.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by MyronL

That massive, neuro-pathetic adrenalin rush you get when the nearest WalMart is 18 miles back, it's getting dark, you're still looking, and you can't turn around for that open space on the side you just passed? Priceless.

Myron,
Your description is priceless, yes!

[skyfree]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

There are a lot more first come first served campsites in BLM Campgrounds right outside the park. These are campsites in campgrounds, not simply disbursed camping on BLM land.

Attachment 59190

Oak Grove Campground

Hal Canyon Campground

Goose Island Campground

Upper Big Bend Campground

Grandstaff Campground

Drinks Canyon Camping Area 17 walk in tent campsites.

Sand Flats Recreation Area 7 campground loops A-G

I remember one day in May a group of us with no campsite reservations drove around to 5 of those expecting to find a spot at one. Nope. Again, the 1.5 million annual visitors thing. First-come-first-serve campsites come with their own problems like having to be there at checkout time to nab a spot. It's rarely worked out for us.

Originally Posted by MyronL

Never liked having to make advanced reservations for any trip. Just won't do it. Far as I'm concerned, the travel trailer is the ultimate vehicle-spontaneous. I'm with rbryan4 on looking first to BLM land and the national forests. The price cannot be beat, the search is the journey, and my addition of solar panels have made this adjustment totally logical.

I camp about 30 days a year in my truck camper which is exclusively on dispersed camping public lands. It's awesome but the truck has great off-road capability.

We are about 50/50 with the 20 days camping in the trailer, which is a bigger challenge boondocking obviously.

Arches NP is one place you really want to be in the campground because of the morning backup at the entrance station. They often fill the park by 9AM and turn people away until the afternoon. We saw that 2 out of 3 days when we were there. Also the parking lot at Devil's Garden is usually full by 9:30AM and being in the campground means no worries about that.

[dfandrews]

Depending on where you go, and (IMHO) how close the location is to Interstate hwys., getting a drop-in site is quite possible.
Regarding Arches NP: I think that is the definitive worst-case example; we went in April, arrived before 9:00 a.m. on a Wednesday, and the traffic jam was 1 mile up the road from Arches. We never got near town. We made the turn at the traffic light by the Colorado River onto UT-128, and went looking for a spot at one of the many BLM sites. All were full, with people parked at the side of the road waiting for folks to vacate a site.
So, we examined the back side of Arches NP from UT-128N along the Colorado River (which is, by the way, a beautiful drive), back onto I-70W to UT-24W, and had a nice visit at Capitol Reef NP.


Edit: a hint when visiting the very busy Sequoia and Kings Canyon NP's: try some of the adjacent Sequoia Nat. Forest CG's. we have been very successful in reserving or just dropping-in to get a site. (Although we don't do July/August at those elevations; we're usually about 2-3000 ft. higher then, 'cause we like it cooler).

[Bill and Earline]

We spent six nights at Grand Canyon last month, but at the North Rim campground. It is considerably more remote than the circus at the South Rim.
The campground shows “Full” every night, both at the campground entrance and online. The sites were rarely over half occupied, so I asked the campground host. She said it costs $10 to cancel but a one night geezer only loses the $9 by being a no-show.
Nice quiet campground only half used, but fully paid. Somebody really had some experience with human nature to come up with that one.

[kavm]

We too are rather frustrated by the situation with campground reservations. It has affected our plans too much. Resolved to try boondocking to minimize the impact. The challenge is that we are a bit apprehensive about driving into the unknown areas where we might have difficulty turning around if we find ourselves in a cul-de-sac of some kind at the end of a forest road... I wonder how people find boondocking locations...

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

There are a lot more first come first served campsites in BLM Campgrounds right outside the park. These are campsites in campgrounds, not simply disbursed camping on BLM land.

Attachment 59190

Oak Grove Campground

Hal Canyon Campground

Goose Island Campground

Upper Big Bend Campground

Grandstaff Campground

Drinks Canyon Camping Area 17 walk in tent campsites.

Sand Flats Recreation Area 7 campground loops A-G

Originally Posted by skyfree

I remember one day in May a group of us with no campsite reservations drove around to 5 of those expecting to find a spot at one. Nope. Again, the 1.5 million annual visitors thing. First-come-first-serve campsites come with their own problems like having to be there at checkout time to nab a spot. It's rarely worked out for us.

Yes, you have to arrive early in the day, and more importantly early in the week. Forget about finding anything on a Friday or Saturday.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by kavm

We too are rather frustrated by the situation with campground reservations. It has affected our plans too much. Resolved to try boondocking to minimize the impact. The challenge is that we are a bit apprehensive about driving into the unknown areas where we might have difficulty turning around if we find ourselves in a cul-de-sac of some kind at the end of a forest road... I wonder how people find boondocking locations...

Anytime you head out on unknown forest roads (or even some paved ones) it is a good idea to drop the trailer & explore first with the tow vehicle. I once had to back up almost a quarter mile (it felt like 10 miles) with the trailer on a road I knew was good - except for the 2' tree that was across the road. Luckily, it was a straight road.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Anytime you head out on unknown forest roads (or even some paved ones) it is a good idea to drop the trailer & explore first with the tow vehicle. I once had to back up almost a quarter mile (it felt like 10 miles) with the trailer on a road I knew was good - except for the 2' tree that was across the road. Luckily, it was a straight road.

Thank you, Jon! This is a good idea! Of course, hitching and unhitching add to the hassle but it is much better than being stuck in an impossible situation!

[goalie39]

I had a one night reservation at a California state park, don't remember which one. I tried to cancel it a few days before -- not only did I get no money back, after fees they wanted to charge my credit card $7 to cancel! Crazy, no wonder there are so many empty sites. Little incentive to cancel from the camper, and campgrounds still get their money.