New 19 needs campgrounds to Winnipeg

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bill and Earline

10 kph over the posted 110 kph is 74.5 mph.
I didn't know our OEM tires were rated for those speeds.

The default speed rating for Special Trailer (ST) tires - which are only used for recreational trailers and small commercial trailers - is 65 mph. With sufficient inflation and low enough load they are allowed 75 mph or even higher, although some tire manufacturers (including Carlisle, the current supplier to Escape) do not publicly endorse that.

Recently, Carlisle started rating some of their ST tires at higher speeds. Escapes are equipped with the Carlisle Radial Trail RH, in 205/75R15 size. Like most ST tire makes, Carlisle doesn't have much of a website (with clear specifications), but I think if you read the sidewall of these tires you'll find they have a speed index on the end (after "ST215/75R15" and load index number) of at least "L"; "L" means 75 mph. Discount Tires lists them as

• ST215/75R15 101N (Load Range C: load index = 101 or 1819 lb, speed index = N)
• ST215/75R15 107N (Load Range D: load index = 107 or 2149 lb, speed index = N)

Speed index N means suitable for sustained speeds up to 87 mph.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should tow at 120 km/h, just answering the tire question.

I cruise at 110 to 115 km/h in our motohome, but it has commercial truck tires. I have kept our trailer generally below 110 km/h.

[Brian B-P]

I am in complete agreement with Jim - yes, that happens occasionally. For emphasis, I'll repeat one key point:

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Bottom line, I would MUCH rather travel on highways filled with semi truck/trailers, that I would with just a handful of RVs.

If you use the Crowsnest Highway (BC #3) to or from Chillwack or Osoyoos, especially at night, embrace the idea that you're out there with the pros.

The characteristics of cars and light trucks are different from big trucks, the priorities of the drivers are different, and these differences result in a mismatch of speed profiles.

Big trucks are stable at high speeds, but don't have the power relative to their huge mass to accelerate or climb hills like our cars and pickups, even with a trailer attached. At the same time, they can handle corners at reasonable speeds and have predictable braking performance.

• On multi-lane highways this is fine, as everyone can move at their desired speeds with minimal conflict, especially since at least the commercial truck drivers generally use the correct lane.
• On long flat roads, the trucks want to cruise faster than most RVs, causing potential conflict if there is no passing lane.
• In mountainous terrain, the trucks are running as hard as they can up the grades, but still holding up the RVs. After the peak, power doesn't matter any more and the trucks are held up by the RV driver who is tentatively crawling down the slope - often slower than they went up. The trucker gets especially frustrated because he needs to gain speed going down to get a head start on climbing up the next grade.

Most of the time this is all manageable. When towing in the mountains I wait behind trucks as necessary - trying to be patient - until I get a passing opportunity. Even if I go downhill and through the curves more slowly than them, my average speed is higher so I gradually pull away from them and there is no conflict. If I run across a truck which I won't be pulling away from, I don't pass it... pretty simple.

If any driver varies speed in a way which doesn't make sense, it causes problems for everyone. For instance, if an RV driver isn't going to maintain a reasonable speed downhill and through the turns, it makes no sense for that driver to pass other traffic, just to later hold them up.


Of course, none of this has anything to do with the original question about campgrounds. I only mentioned the idea of route choice - which led to the truck discussion - because it determines which campgrounds are candidates.

[techfan]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The default speed rating for Special Trailer (ST) tires - which are only used for recreational trailers and small commercial trailers - is 65 mph. With sufficient inflation and low enough load they are allowed 75 mph or even higher, although some tire manufacturers (including Carlisle, the current supplier to Escape) do not publicly endorse that.

Recently, Carlisle started rating some of their ST tires at higher speeds. Escapes are equipped with the Carlisle Radial Trail RH, in 205/75R15 size. Like most ST tire makes, Carlisle doesn't have much of a website (with clear specifications), but I think if you read the sidewall of these tires you'll find they have a speed index on the end (after "ST215/75R15" and load index number) of at least "L"; "L" means 75 mph. Discount Tires lists them as

• ST215/75R15 101N (Load Range C: load index = 101 or 1819 lb, speed index = N)
• ST215/75R15 107N (Load Range D: load index = 107 or 2149 lb, speed index = N)

Speed index N means suitable for sustained speeds up to 87 mph.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should tow at 120 km/h, just answering the tire question.

I cruise at 110 to 115 km/h in our motohome, but it has commercial truck tires. I have kept our trailer generally below 110 km/h.

Recently replace my original Carlisles with new ones since I had such good luck with the others. 24,000 miles and they looked great, but they were over 3 years old and we are planning a BIG trip, so I wanted to start out fresh. Our supplier (Discount Tires) is carrying the new Radial Trail HD with a new tred design. What I found interesting was the very large and prominently displayed, maximum 81 mph. While we never travel that fast, I found it interesting that it was stated on the tire. See below:

[escape artist]

Hi: techfan... If I towed that fast my hair would certainly turn white!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[techfan]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: techfan... If I towed that fast my hair would certainly turn white!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

And yet… there isn't a trip we take that we don't see someone pulling an RV at that speed. Even the best trailer tires have limits and speed=heat and heat=blowouts. In addition, we see a lot of swaying on fast moving, towed, trailers.

[Jim Bennett]

There has been the rare exception where I have had to exceed 120 kph, usually a passing situation, but that is the max speed I tow, and most often a lot slower.

I have been lucky that I have only had two blowouts on a trailer with many hundreds of thousands of miles towing. One was on a 10 year old 13" tire on our tent trailer, which I know was towed faster than what it was rated for many, many times. That was 25 years ago. The other was on a construction trailer, and not sure if it was a blowout, or just that it might have been driven flat for quite a while disintegrating it.

I don't think there is any issue towing a trailer up to the max rated speed, as long as tires are maintained, and most importantly the load is properly distributed. Also, keeping the tires inflated to max pressure will keep the walls stiff, lessening any heat build up.

Try feeling your tires right after stopping. Though they could possibly get quite warm, you should be able to hold your hand on them with no problem. They should not feel hot, though I realize the definition of hot varies from one person to another.

[Steven M]

Originally Posted by ice-breaker

A practice that I see quite often and find terribly annoying is that on some of the single lane roads through the mountains the traffic will build and build behind some slow moving vehicle. Very often when a passing lane appears, the slower moving vehicles will speed up again so that few or none of the vehicles piled up behind them have the opportunity to pass. When they reach the end of the passing lane, they will slow down again. I have seen this behaviour time and time again and it baffles me why they do that.

Dave, While I am no psychologist I believe that this simply gives the driver a feeling of superiority. He is in front and your not passing him. He controls your speed, he controls you.

I have seen this all too many times myself, including during my law enforcement career, then it was the slow guy in the left lane. When just driving they wouldn't move over and Illinois has drive right law, if you aren't passing traffic and if it isn't rush hour you must move to the right. I have in the past pulled over and when appropriate written tickets for the violation. Even more frustrating is the person who won't pull over when you are chasing down the speeder who just passed them, some think they are helping someone get away with it, other I really believe don't pay enough attention and didn't realize I was there (sarcasm). Those people would get a ticket for failing to yield to an emergency vehicle. Rant off

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by techfan

Our supplier (Discount Tires) is carrying the new Radial Trail HD with a new tred design. What I found interesting was the very large and prominently displayed, maximum 81 mph. While we never travel that fast, I found it interesting that it was stated on the tire.

Thanks for the illustration.
It is unusual to list the speed explicitly on the sidewall, but perhaps Carlisle did because people are not accustomed to seeing a speed index on a trailer tire. The spec on that sidewall should be

ST205/75R14 100/96M

• Load index 100/96 -> about 1764 pounds (800 kg) maximum capacity single, 1560 pounds (710 kg) each when used in dual pairs
• Speed index M -> 130 km/h (81 mph)

... although Discount only lists it as "ST205/75R14 100M".
By the way, it's interesting that there is a Radial Trail HD, since is is not listed in the Carlisle catalog. Discount lists both the RH and the HD; the HD has one step lower speed rating and that tread pattern difference is clear. Also, it appears that (judging from the load capacity) this is a 14" tire, not the currently used 15".

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by techfan

In addition, we see a lot of swaying on fast moving, towed, trailers.

Trailer stability reduces with speed, and for some combinations of tug and trailer that means they should never be operated at speeds which would be a concern for the tires. On the other hand, there's no reason that a properly equipped, configured, and loaded trailer can't be stable at much higher speeds than discussed here. For instance, 141.998 mph... with an ordinary single-axle travel trailer (on V speed rated Goodyear GT tires).