17B build sheet, any advice for a family of 4?

[dosby]

Originally Posted by Fox hunt

i second the storage box i kept dirty/wet stuff in it - sewer hose attachments, electrical cord, water hose, leveling stuff, outdoor rug- really helpful.

Storage box is nice, I get it. Just wanted to first try to go without it and fit all the dirty stuff into the exterior hatch and see how it goes.
I could always add either a custom one or the one from ETI later.

[MarGen]

Yes, that bike rack is quite high but he reports it is stable. And its not higher than the roof of the tow vehicle. We need something like it because we'll have two bikes on the back and a storage box and kayaks on the roof of the TV. Lol!

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I'd recommend a 19'.

Right- has the OP been inside a 17? Scott(sclifrickson) FT for a good time with two small children and now has a 19.

[dosby]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Right- has the OP been inside a 17? Scott(sclifrickson) FT for a good time with two small children and now has a 19.

I have not. I am trying not to think about larger trailers. First, we don't have much parking space, 2nd no towing vehicle above 5000 lbs, and 3rd, we are going to try to be outside as much as possible. No FT-ing in the nearest future for sure, both my wife and I work remotely for now yes, but we would need more than 19' footer to have a live-in nanny with us in the trailer
I just suddenly got tired of setting up tent, canopies, and all other stuff for the whole family as well as packing all that stuff into minivan each time. Want to enjoy life a little bit more.

[Bcescapist]

Not to be negative but as someone with a 17b and who once did a lot of camping with small children and a mini van i recommend a tent trailer. ��

[Rossue]

Sounds very idealistic; you might check to be sure. Would suggest you call Escape for a 17 near you to see. Could be eye opening. When you're all cooped up in bad weather it could be something you may regret.

[gbaglo]

Seems to be a case of "Carry On Regardless".

[Thane]

For 14 years we have been quite happy with our 17b. With two kids and for the last six years, a lab size dog, we are space constrained but that is OK with us. We now sometimes camp with 5 adults and the dog and it is mighty cozy. We have to stagger going to bed so the girls go first and then the boys with my son on the floor and the dog under the rear bed. I understand that some folks would not like this but we are OK with it, it is all personal preference. It makes for a memorable trip and I think a little adversity and compromise is good for the kids.

We look at our trailer as a very nice tent and don’t spend much time inside. We haven’t had either dinette set up for years and have never had the goucho bed down. Now that the kids are in college, our first parent only camp may happen. It will be odd to have all that room and the goucho bed down. We may have a meal inside. I know we will miss the crowd.

I like the small size and ease of backing into a tight spot and although the 19 is a fine trailer, for us it would not work as well as I could not easily get it into my parking spot at home and it is bigger than I need. I need to pull my trailer on a pivot through 180 degrees to get it out of its parking spot, I couldn’t do that by hand or riding lawn mower with a 19 footer.

I think those who buy 19 footers have made a great choice, so have those with 17s and the others. It is not my place to judge otherwise.

It is all personal preference and the choice of trailer is up to you. I think you are doing fine job asking for input and the kids will have a great time.

We spent many weekends camping in the backyard and earning the right to sleep alone was a big stepping stone. If it turns out that someday you want a bigger trailer, sell your old one and buy a new one; just like a car or house.

For us an upper bunk bed rail was good, especially as both kids liked to sleep up there years ago. There are posts on how to make one. We also used a spring loaded curtain rod to block off the bunk bed area and give the kids a fort or room of their own. Glow sticks gave the kids a lot of fun and a soft night light. We put them in the refer and they would last a couple of nights; the glow sticks, not the kids.

Best of luck.

[Bobbie54]

Well said, Thane!

I love the 19- but do not want to try to park one in my garage and don't need the space. I also think teardrops are cute and very functional and would have loved one at 30 and think it is a great when a couple can share one- but I don't want one now. I think 40 foot motorhomes are nice- but I don't want to drive one or pay for one. It's all a matter of taste- what works for you, what your style of camping is, what your budget is, what your space is.

[MarGen]

Yes, I totally agree Thane! I think many people believe 'bigger is always better'. We are getting a 19' not because we need more space to spread out but rather because my husband is 6'2" and we need the height. Even still, I think we could make due with a 17'. I've had people telling me I should get the 21' because the 19' isn't big enough with 2 kids! Lol. We spend most of our time outside and have hung out in tents for days in the rain. We're not looking for a travelling palace. A trailer of any kind is a significant upgrade for us. To each their own!

[dfandrews]

We have a 2015 Escape 17. We have an exterior hatch; we never use it. The stuff that we tend to use outside either is too big for the hatch opening, or can be accessed more conveniently from the interior. We have the Storage Box on the tongue, and would not be without it. Hose fittings(pressure regulator, water filter, hose elbow fittings), 10' and 25' water hoses, 2x8 boards for leveling, under-canopy mat, door mat, chocks, and other dirt-laden or wet items, all go in the storage box.
Since E17's tend to be tongue heavy (ours is about 370 lbs.), we don't put tools, etc. in the storage box, no heavy things inside, underneath in front.
As was mentioned, the storage box protects the front of your trailer from road debris. We have a crack in our storage box from a piece of truck tire tread (an 'alligator') that was unavoidable. That would have been a hole in our trailer!

We heartily recommend the EMS (it's not just a surge protector) it is valuable protection for your trailer's 120V electrical system.
We have a bike rack on the rear. Since the E17 is 12 feet from the ball to the axle, it is not subject to sway. Even with the rack on the back, I have been unable to induce sway in our trailer. I would not be opposed to a 4 bike rack if needed.
We originally were going to defer solar to future, but added it at the last minute, and are glad we did. Even above 45° Lat., when camping in OR and WA, we have found that the solar keeps the battery charge up even over multiple days of camping without hookups or charging from the tow vehicle feed. Our electrical use is lights (LED's), MaxxFan (almost always on for nice air flow), furnace (fan) when it's cold, charging phones (12V DC plug and USB) and laptop (handheld 160w inverter plugged in to 12V DC). Frig. is always on propane (except on the ferries, then 12V DC--don't forget to switch it back to propane!).
Re: MaxxFan: we have the kitchen small awning window (that we love). It is open almost always, even in the rain, and at night, for make up air, as the MaxxFan is exhausting air and moisture.



We have the manual awning. We love it, espec. if it's raining and we want to have some protection outside the door. We'll extend it part way, and have one end lowered to shed the rain efficiently.

[steve dunham]

Since you are not getting the A/C , I see no reason to get the surge protector ( EMS)
Use the money to buy the front storage box or the rooftop solar , either of which is far more useful IMHO
We tried camping in our 17 ft Casita with 2 adults , 2 kids , and our dog ONCE !
A 19 ft Escape or a popup tent trailer seems more realistic especially on longer trips or in inclement weather .

[canyonrider]

Originally Posted by dosby

I just suddenly got tired of setting up tent, canopies, and all other stuff for the whole family as well as packing all that stuff into minivan each time. Want to enjoy life a little bit more.

I feel compelled to comment on this notion that trailer camping saves work and time, as this was one of the reasons we bought our Escape four years ago (when our kids were the same age as yours!). IME moving from tent camping to a trailer essentially just trades one set of tasks with another with respect to packing/unpacking, and in the long run takes up much more of my time and energy (and money).

On a per trip basis it may be simpler and possibly faster, although you still need to take time before leaving to check air pressure and lug nuts, fill water, cool the fridge, check and fill propane, etc. And parking, hitching/unhitching, and leveling can sometimes take more time than you anticipate (not to mention longer drive times and more frequent gas stops while towing).

But then also keep in mind that washing/waxing, cleaning, winterizing, fresh tank sanitizing, wheel bearing/brake maintenance, and other repairs inherent with owning a trailer all take time. For me this has been one of the more challenging aspects of balancing trailer ownership with a day job and kids.

Don't get me wrong, I've really enjoyed having a trailer and think there are a lot of benefits (namely a super comfortable place to sleep and hang out in lousy weather). But saving time and work has not been one of those benefits.

[dosby]

Originally Posted by Bcescapist

Not to be negative but as someone with a 17b and who once did a lot of camping with small children and a mini van i recommend a tent trailer. ��

I know that tent trailers have more sleeping space and they are much lighter. My wife, though, wants to have a bathroom with a shower, not sure if you can get that with a tent trailer. Some of the parks we would love to go to (Yellowstone, Glacier) only allow hard sided RVs/trailers on their best campgrounds.

Originally Posted by Rossue

Sounds very idealistic; you might check to be sure. Would suggest you call Escape for a 17 near you to see. Could be eye opening. When you're all cooped up in bad weather it could be something you may regret.

I know it's small, probably same size as our 9-person tent
But when it rains or it's windy, and it happens a lot in our area even in the summer, a tent just does not cut it. Not even talking about shoulder seasons. We love any weather, but want to be able to live neatly and take showers after rolling in the spring mud. Not looking for an oyster shell for sure.

Originally Posted by Thane

For 14 years we have been quite happy with our 17b. With two kids and for the last six years, a lab size dog, we are space constrained but that is OK with us. We now sometimes camp with 5 adults and the dog and it is mighty cozy...

We look at our trailer as a very nice tent and don’t spend much time inside...

...

Glow sticks gave the kids a lot of fun and a soft night light. We put them in the refer and they would last a couple of nights; the glow sticks, not the kids.

That is exactly how I would like to feel about having a trailer.

Originally Posted by Thane

I like the small size and ease of backing into a tight spot and although the 19 is a fine trailer, for us it would not work as well as I could not easily get it into my parking spot at home and it is bigger than I need. I need to pull my trailer on a pivot through 180 degrees to get it out of its parking spot, I couldn’t do that by hand or riding lawn mower with a 19 footer.

Similar situation here. I am already looking at Trailer Valet Lift Jacks.

Originally Posted by dfandrews

We have a 2015 Escape 17. We have an exterior hatch; we never use it. The stuff that we tend to use outside either is too big for the hatch opening, or can be accessed more conveniently from the interior. We have the Storage Box on the tongue, and would not be without it. Hose fittings(pressure regulator, water filter, hose elbow fittings), 10' and 25' water hoses, 2x8 boards for leveling, under-canopy mat, door mat, chocks, and other dirt-laden or wet items, all go in the storage box.

Hm, I was really hoping to put into an exterior hatch most of that stuff: fittings, water hoses, leveling boards, and chocks. No mats, though, maybe just a thin entry mat to keep shoes outside.

Originally Posted by dfandrews

We heartily recommend the EMS (it's not just a surge protector) it is valuable protection for your trailer's 120V electrical system.

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Since you are not getting the A/C , I see no reason to get the surge protector ( EMS)

EMS won't hurt for sure, and should be easier to replace than a fridge? Can't think of anything else that could be damaged by faulty electrics. Let me ask this question during my video call with ETI. Maybe I can get by just by testing the campground outlet once with some small tester.

Originally Posted by dfandrews

We have a bike rack on the rear. Since the E17 is 12 feet from the ball to the axle, it is not subject to sway. Even with the rack on the back, I have been unable to induce sway in our trailer. I would not be opposed to a 4 bike rack if needed.

I think 4 bike rack would be our next purchase after the trailer. 2 adult 2 kids bike + 20 lbs rack should be ok, I think.

Originally Posted by dfandrews

We originally were going to defer solar to future, but added it at the last minute, and are glad we did. Even above 45° Lat., when camping in OR and WA, we have found that the solar keeps the battery charge up even over multiple days of camping without hookups or charging from the tow vehicle feed. Our electrical use is lights (LED's), MaxxFan (almost always on for nice air flow), furnace (fan) when it's cold, charging phones (12V DC plug and USB) and laptop (handheld 160w inverter plugged in to 12V DC). Frig. is always on propane (except on the ferries, then 12V DC--don't forget to switch it back to propane!).

Solar is something I am not sure about. I know it won't be easy to add rooftop solar later but fairly easy to add a portable one if we the need for it. We should be able to last 3-4 days on just dual 6v batteries feeding all that listed above.

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Re: MaxxFan: we have the kitchen small awning window (that we love). It is open almost always, even in the rain, and at night, for make up air, as the MaxxFan is exhausting air and moisture.

That is something I don't quite understand. Escape already has a bunch of windows that do open including the one that opens in the rain (emerg exit), as well as exhaust fan in the kitchen. Lighting should not be a problem either.

Originally Posted by dfandrews

We have the manual awning. We love it, espec. if it's raining and we want to have some protection outside the door. We'll extend it part way, and have one end lowered to shed the rain efficiently.

That one for sure - I already see us hanging stuff on the rails and kids climbing on it. It's a good size, too, 10x8. Our standalone canopy now is 8x8 and it's more than enough for us to cover a table with a few ppl sitting at it.

Originally Posted by canyonrider

I feel compelled to comment on this notion that trailer camping saves work and time, as this was one of the reasons we bought our Escape four years ago (when our kids were the same age as yours!). IME moving from tent camping to a trailer essentially just trades one set of tasks with another with respect to packing/unpacking, and in the long run takes up much more of my time and energy (and money!).

On a per trip basis it may be simpler and possibly faster, although you still need to take time before leaving to check air pressure and lug nuts, fill water, cool the fridge, check and fill propane, etc. And parking, hitching/unhitching, and leveling can sometimes take more time than you anticipate (not to mention longer drive times and more frequent gas stops while towing).

But then also keep in mind that washing/waxing, cleaning, winterizing, fresh tank sanitizing, wheel bearing/brake maintenance, and other repairs inherent with owning a trailer all take time. For me this has been one of the more challenging aspects of balancing trailer ownership with a day job and kids.

Don't get me wrong, I've really enjoyed having a trailer and think there are a lot of benefits (namely a super comfortable place to sleep and hang out in lousy weather). But saving time and work has not been one of those benefits!

Great points!
Per trip basis set up speed is definitely way more important to me than time spent on maintenance.
The whole reason we are not camping more frequently now is that I hate to waste a few hours just to go for couple days. And that usually is the case when you are trying to catch short streaks of great weather during shoulder season.
I know that packing food and clothing is unavoidable even with a trailer, but that is all we would probably need. Tent camping also requires packing/unpacking a minivan at home (2-3 hrs), setting up camp (2 hrs), and packing out (2 hrs). If things like coolers, tent, etc. get dirty, cleaning at home takes another 1-2 hrs.

[sherminator]

Originally Posted by canyonrider

I feel compelled to comment on this notion that trailer camping saves work and time, as this was one of the reasons we bought our Escape four years ago (when our kids were the same age as yours!). IME moving from tent camping to a trailer essentially just trades one set of tasks with another with respect to packing/unpacking, and in the long run takes up much more of my time and energy (and money).

I moved from 45 years of tent camping to 8 years of tent trailer camping, and am now eagerly awaiting my first hard side trailer. I suspect that my Escape will take as much work, like you say, but it will hopefully change the place and urgency. For me, the tents and tent trailer required the most work immediately upon arriving home - especially when they were wet and it was still raining. Taking care of all that gear, especially when having to go to work the next day, is a drag. Drying out our tent trailer took up to two weeks at times. I hope to never have to dry out our Escape.

Winter is a great time to camp at the coast in Oregon, but we usually come back wet, or at least damp. If I never have to dry out a tent again in my life I will die happy.

[dosby]

Had a 45-minute video chat over Zoom today!

Gaucho Bunk - they are saying that the dome light is not on center on the wardrobe side, so no head bumping (for adults)
Foot Flush Toilet - hand lever requires reaching a bit far
Exterior Access Hatch (Rear Passenger Side) - 16.5" x 7.5" opening but can fill the whole space under the bench (51”l x 24”w x 19”h)
Exterior Shower - it's just a panel with hot/cold water faucets and thin blue hose connector, plus a garden style head
Surge protector - they didn't say how many owners got fried but said it's an extra insurance when hooked up in questionable places
Two-Way Hot Water Tank - depends on usage pattern. Instant hot water but only when hooked up. But then gray water tank is also limited, so have to use shower outdoors if using it too much...
Toilet Shut Off Valve (for winterizing) - basically a must unless camping only in the Southern states.
Retractable Wall Hooks - look nice, will install in both optional locations
Storage Box - looks neat, but can put only narrow stuff there, it's ([74”w -> 42”w] x 12"l x 19”h). I think I can install a custom larger one. The supporting plates are there but not pre-drilled.
Window in Kitchen - we are planning to cook outside except early breakfast/late snack or when it's really ugly/windy outside, so neither extra light nor ventilation is needed.
Springfield Marine Pedestal for Dinette Table - that was a bummer, the table end actually sways up and down way too much compared to 2-pole setup. Yes, it's much easier to stow this table but only with 2 people: one pushes down, another works the pole latches under the table.
Oak cabinets have Formica backsplash by default, while maple has translucent front plates on cabinets. Choosing oak.

[Doug2000]

A young family bought our 17B. After 1 trip it was for sale. I contacted them to see what the problem was. They said it was just too small. There just isn’t enough storage for all your stuff. We made it work with teenagers.

I highly advise you to buy the 19.

[outwiththedogs]

We went from a 17B to a 19 and find just that small change significant. Two women and 2 large dogs and it is much more comfortable for us. Might want to at least look at a 19.
Catherine

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by dosby

Storage box is nice, I get it. Just wanted to first try to go without it and fit all the dirty stuff into the exterior hatch and see how it goes.
I could always add either a custom one or the one from ETI later.

I'm with you. I don't have one now, and haven't ever thought, "Gee, I wish I had a storage box in front."

[MAD escape]

We have a 15 month old 17B that we've gone on a few trips in. Some freezing cold nights, some *very* windy and rainy weather. Longest trip 10 days.


The electric option for the water heater was heaven sent when the wind blew so hard the water heater would not work on propane. (Moving the trailer to put the HWH in the lee was not an option.)


Our 120 VAC electric system monitor has flagged issues for us a few times, including over voltage at home here in Boulder, Colorado. You asked an excellent question about replacing the refrigerator vs the electric monitor. The monitor would be faster and cheaper, although you would likely only have to replace the circuit board in the reefer should it come to that.


Solar: we went half way and had the roof pre-wired for panels, should the need arise. Which it hasn't and likely will not. We have the two 6 volt golf cart batteries on the rear bumper and have never drawn them down to 50% even camping in cold weather (freezing nights) for 4 days straight. Towing for a few hours to a new campsite fully recharged the batteries. (We have a proper tow vehicle that puts out enough power to charge batteries while we tow... don't know how your Sienna is equipped! Something to look into perhaps.) Full disclosure: We are not heavy power users. No laptops or television or blaring stereo. Lights (all LED) the MaxxFan, furnace (fan while running - that's it) and the circuit board for the refrigerator and the propane sniffing alarm. The water heater, when running. The water pump. Do the arithmetic and you'll find that you don't need much power just for the basics.



Our manual awning is fine for us. We put it out part way and tilt it for rain sometimes. We also wrap shade sails around the legs when the sun gets too harsh to shelter a sitting area just outside the door. =) I'd be really nervous about kids climbing on the arms, but they can be detached in moments and swung down to become vertical posts to the ground. ;-) "Sorry kids..."



Storage box: We built out own, bigger than the factory box and (I think) better looking. We tow with a WDH and stop by CAT scales when changing our loading habits, so the additional weight that sometimes finds its way into the box is not an issue... for us with a tow vehicle rated for 700 pounds on the hitch. But that real estate occupied by the box is a great spot for bicycles...


Bicycle racks: Very few racks are rated for mounting on the back of a travel trailer due to the harsh, jarring vibration back there. If you have "beater" bikes and really good insurance (for the folks in the vehicle behind you who suffer damage when the rack fails) use whatever you like! We bought a Swagman carrier rated for trailer use even when loaded with our two electric bikes. We love that rack. eTrailer.com


Flip-up shelf next to the sink: We removed ours because putting it down each night was removing flesh from our fingers. (Admittedly, we have quite a pile of thick bedding set up almost permanently.) We found a nice folding tray at Ikea for $8 that we sit on the bed when we need the extra counter space for doing dishes.


External storage hatch: Handy, but much less so since we built our big tongue box. We only put clean, dry, non-combustible stuff in there now, organized in plastic tubs.


Kitchen window: Have it, love it, use it, especially when cooking indoors. (We often cook a quick lunch at rest stops while travelling.)


Foot flush: Saves a reach behind the toilet, very convenient.


Welcome to the family!