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Old 07-13-2015, 11:54 PM   #61
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Generally accepted number I have seen for a safety factor is 90% of your tow rating. If you have 5K, then 4500 fits.
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:55 PM   #62
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You don't need a full size pickup, but a VW Touareg would be a better choice than a Toyota FJ IMHO.

I have my own issue with the Escape quote you referenced- google frontal area escape forum for that discussion.

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Old 07-14-2015, 12:05 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
You don't need a full size pickup, but a VW Tourag would be a better choice than a Toyota FJ IMHO.
A Touareg is a fine choice. If I were ever going to switch from my F150 to an SUV (I'm not) it would probably be a Touareg. A great balance of towing capacity and fuel economy.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:05 AM   #64
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Nathan, when ETI says 5000, they mean it actually has 5000. (ETI may have never looked at the GCWR for an FJ or some other vehicle but I assume that they mean that a vehicle should actually have a 5000 towing capacity.). The FJ does not as explained above. The 4Runner does. Which is why Ross brought up 4Runners because even with an actual towing capacity of 5000, there are owners who felt they needed more towing capacity for a 21'.

This is all difficult to get at first for someone who wants to use their vehicle and figures it is sufficient when they look at certain numbers. Which is why we try here to tell people the real situation. There are a number of 4Runner variations but some have a GCWR of 11,300. You can see how nearly one ton more of capacity would make a big difference. That capacity may be partly based on wheel base, truck chassis, radiator, alternator or other factors.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:14 AM   #65
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I was always curious as to why the Highlander has a 5000 lb tow capacity vs. the 3500 lb tow capacity of the sienna, inspite of the fact that they have the same engine, same transmission, same rear end. It could be because the sienna has a softer suspension, or maybe the highlander has larger brakes.
Although the Sienna and Highlander have shared engines and even transmissions in some years, the structure and rear suspensions are completely different. The big limitation on the Sienna's towing capacity is hitch weight capacity, and that is limited by either the spring stiffness, the structure of the rear body (which is longer and has the big seat well in it), or the rear axle capacity; the axle capacity is in turn is limited by the reasonably sized (not oversize for SUV style) tires.

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But I tend towards your theory of soccer moms and he-men not wanting to be caught dead in a mini-van. The existence of a 3rd row seat in the midsize SUVs also makes me think they are marketed as a "minivan that isn't a minivan"...
Real men drive... whatever they want!

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Originally Posted by lorrie View Post
Has anyone ever towed an Escape 19 with a Toyota Sienna with a 3500lb towing capacity? If so, how'd it work out?
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Originally Posted by lorrie View Post
We tow a 17B with our Sienna very easily but I've wanted to upsize to the 19 (queen size bed-ahhhh), but never thought it possible with the Sienna. Guess we'll be cuddling close til we buy a bigger tow vehicle one day
We have towed our current non-Escape trailer with our Sienna, and it works well. The trailer is the length and weight of an Escape 17', but the width of an Escape 19'. We are looking at something larger, and I concluded that an Escape 19' could be towed by the Sienna, but we would need to be careful to keep the trailer weight down, and the tongue weight would be a particular concern. I would not worry about stability or power.
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Old 07-14-2015, 02:23 AM   #66
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Well Rossue, here's the thing, I don't know the guy at the Toyota dealer from Adam, and I was clear that I was inquiring due to not wanting to be unsafe or ruin my FJ. He volunteered the information regarding the weight. Dunno, he may be clueless.

After spending an evening deep in philosophical thought (ok, I was watching American Ninja Warrior, but you don't need to know that...oops. guess you already do) this is the epiphany I had, my Eureka! moment:

If the 19' or 21' are marginal for SUV's or trucks rated from 5,000-6,400 towing pounds, (never mind the GVWR or CGVWR) which would negate most Toyota Tacoma's, 4Runners, Nissan Frontiers, Chevy Colorado's, some Dodge Dakota's and even some F150's, not to mention my precious FJ, then someone ought to tell ETI they should change their wording on the 19' and 21' web page where they say "Escape 21’ has been designed specifically for mid-sized vehicles such as SUVs and mid-sized trucks with a V6 engine or a minimum towing capacity of 5000lbs."

Now let me rush to say, less I be misunderstood, I'm not being cantankerous or such, because, well, that would be highly uncivilized of me.

I do care about my fellow man, ("care" is such a binding word, no? ), not to mention my own family, so I want to do the right and safe thing, buttttttt.....does that mean I need a full sized pickup with a tow capacity of 8000 lbs plus to do the right thing and be safe? Again, while that sounds trite, I really do wonder. With the Casita, I pretty much know I can't overload the weight limits (please don't go prove me wrong!) so as long as I have the 5000 lb limit, I'm good. Escape 19' and 21' are apparently not so....

I do gotta say "thank you" to all you kind strangers, whom I will most likely never meet, in helping me out with this. You really are very kind!
Hi: nathanj04011... In theory a Bumble Bee can't fly!!! Luckily Bumble Bees don't know theory though. Alf
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:03 AM   #67
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Great, just great! Not only do I have to figure out what I can or can't do, now I have to ponder bumble bees predicament too!

Thanks Alf. Sometimes we as humans overthink things don't we? Not to say I am any less anguished...that's another character flaw.

As almost as gut-wrenching as the towing situation, is trying to decide which trailer is more suited for us. The 19' would lose storage with the things we want, but still has more than the Casita even then. And its still small. But probably the 21 would have enough of everything, we just aren't crazy about the layout or that it is getting bigger to the point where I can't look snidely down my nose at all the huge RV's and 5th wheels, and fake concern with what they are doing to the environment (I say this in all good humor, as I realize I rarely get over 12MPG towing the Casita).

Or, should the conservative towing folks here win out and I somehow talk myself out of the FJ and go with a full size pickup that can tow a city block without breaking a sweat, then there is always the 5.0TA....oh, the indecision!!
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:08 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by nathanj04011 View Post
...so as long as I have the 5000 lb limit, I'm good. Escape 19' and 21' are apparently not so....
Some people will try to convince you that you need a semi truck to tow a 13 ft trailer. Others are positive that a Smart car would tow a 21 ft trailer just fine. Truth is, the FJ is quite capable of towing a 19' safely and with more than adequate power and handling capabilities for most people. My experience over the past two years towing my 19' with my FJ tends to support that.

Having towed the 19' for 2 yrs, my thoughts on the FJ - 21' combo are that the 21' may be a bit oversized for the FJ in mountainous terrain, but is likely to be ok if you tow mostly in flatter terrain.

By the way, don't get yourself too worked up about the responses you see on this or any other forum. As they say, opinions are like a##h@l$#, everyone has one. Even me
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:15 AM   #69
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One of the environmentally benefits of a larger truck is that it will not work as hard at towing and may even give you better economy. I went from a 5 speed v8 to a 8 speed v8 and my gas mileage increased close to 20%. Then there are diesels that are becoming popular, this maybe my next truck The New 2016 Nissan Titan | Nissan USA
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Old 07-14-2015, 11:43 AM   #70
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Or, should the conservative towing folks here win out and I somehow talk myself out of the FJ and go with a full size pickup that can tow a city block without breaking a sweat, then there is always the 5.0TA....oh, the indecision!!
That's why we test drove a 2015 Double Cab 5.7L V8 Toyota Tundra with a standard size bed (in a very lovely metallic grey color) on Sunday. See my signature for the trailer we want.

Oh, and a point for your wife (well, maybe you, so I shouldn't assume ), when Dirk and I drive around in the FJ, my purse is wadded up in the console between us. I also have to haul snacks with me since I can't stop for food like he can at fast food joints when he's hungry. So, I don't travel light. They're never easy to reach. (If he's not with me, it all goes on the passenger seat.)

However, in that Tundra, I could have put all that stuff inside the flip up area of the console between us without any problems. Love it! so much so that I even seriously considered selling the FJ and getting that Tundra *right now* instead of getting rid of his 2000 Tacoma. Hubby nixed that idea.

Point being - that extra room was nice inside the cab. And I know it can easily tow the trailer we end up with.


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Old 07-14-2015, 01:09 PM   #71
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I agree with you Laura, I do. I actually went and looked at a loaded 2010 F-150 Lariat Crew Cab at lunch today. They want $22,000 for that with 126,000 miles. So the $600 trade-in price of the FJ would have to be subtracted from that, and then add in the Escape purchase and ouch! Wish I for a moment was Bill Gates. Oh that is so cliché! I hate it when people say that!! and yet I fell for it too. I'm trying to create a nice, happy balance between the cost of recreation and the number of years we will not be able to recreate because we are paying for all of it. Of course, you might say "if you can't afford to do it right, then you can't afford it". To which I retort "what's your point?"

Now as to the FJ, had I known 3 years ago when we bought it that we would be upgrading trailers (we thought the Casita was our forever trailer), I might not have purchased it. Heck, I know I wouldn't have. Because I wouldn't have to be agonizing right now!. Add to that the kids have grown too, and the FJ hasn't. I know a 6600 mile round trip next year with the 4 of us and 2 dogs in there is going to test all our patience. Not that it in anyway diminishes MY love for the FJ. I just am an island unto myself on that now I'm afraid.

Oh, and as to the space? My wife would 100% agree with you. Especially after coming from the Astro van. She is a phenomenal sewer and quilter and constantly makes herself new designer type suitcases that she calls purses. And they end up between the seats just like you say or by her feet, which she sweetly complains about.

I'm still as frustrated as I was, because yes, in my heart of hearts, I know the FJ probably is marginal for what we will request of it, yet how do I tell my wallet that?
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Old 07-14-2015, 02:24 PM   #72
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Since driving long distances with my new F150, I have to say I would never give up the room in the cab. Didn't think that extra width vs a midsize suv would make a difference, but for me it does. Makes towing SO much more enjoyable, and stress free, but to each is or her own.
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Old 07-14-2015, 02:59 PM   #73
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I agree, ask me how I was able to drive 18 hours and just made it short of Oklahoma on my recent trip and then continued on and made it cross country in 4 days total. Towing with a proper set up makes it really effortless. You can appreciate that with your new Ford.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:02 PM   #74
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I agree with you Laura, I do. I actually went and looked at a loaded 2010 F-150 Lariat Crew Cab at lunch today. They want $22,000 for that with 126,000 miles. So the $600 trade-in price of the FJ would have to be subtracted from that, and then add in the Escape purchase and ouch! Wish I for a moment was Bill Gates. Oh that is so cliché! I hate it when people say that!! and yet I fell for it too. I'm trying to create a nice, happy balance between the cost of recreation and the number of years we will not be able to recreate because we are paying for all of it. Of course, you might say "if you can't afford to do it right, then you can't afford it". To which I retort "what's your point?"

Now as to the FJ, had I known 3 years ago when we bought it that we would be upgrading trailers (we thought the Casita was our forever trailer), I might not have purchased it. Heck, I know I wouldn't have. Because I wouldn't have to be agonizing right now!. Add to that the kids have grown too, and the FJ hasn't. I know a 6600 mile round trip next year with the 4 of us and 2 dogs in there is going to test all our patience. Not that it in anyway diminishes MY love for the FJ. I just am an island unto myself on that now I'm afraid.

Oh, and as to the space? My wife would 100% agree with you. Especially after coming from the Astro van. She is a phenomenal sewer and quilter and constantly makes herself new designer type suitcases that she calls purses. And they end up between the seats just like you say or by her feet, which she sweetly complains about.

I'm still as frustrated as I was, because yes, in my heart of hearts, I know the FJ probably is marginal for what we will request of it, yet how do I tell my wallet that?
Wow, I thought FJ's were increasing in value, now that they no longer are being made. I traded mine on a Forrester and got cash back. That truck has a lot of miles and read the manual, sometimes 100,000 miles is the magic time for major overhauls.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:14 PM   #75
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I was in jest about the trade-in value. I'm sure it has a good resale value. I just want it have as good resale as fiberglass trailers. I want a lot, don't I? I'm actually scared to know what they will offer. I could go the private sale route...

Of course, this might be all academic, if my wife refuses to acquiesce to the additional debt. Who knows, I might be the proud owner of both the Casita and the FJ for years and years... Worse things could happen. You mean not owning a trailer? Noooo!! Heaven forbid I would be forced to own a sticky!!
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:54 PM   #76
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as we get older, bigger tv"s seem to be better. it just seems easier and a lot less crowded.
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Old 07-14-2015, 04:35 PM   #77
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:35 PM   #78
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Thank you everyone! I think I have enough information to spend the next year conflicted. That is, if I can get a trailer ordered soon enough. Otherwise, they won't have ours made before 2017.
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Old 07-15-2015, 12:20 AM   #79
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Thank you everyone! I think I have enough information to spend the next year conflicted. That is, if I can get a trailer ordered soon enough. Otherwise, they won't have ours made before 2017.
That's about the schedule we're looking at, unless one of us comes into a big inheritance soon or wins the lotto (but we never play, so that option is out).

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Old 07-15-2015, 06:05 PM   #80
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Enjoyed your story. Oh the paradox of choice. Enjoy your musings and good luck with all the decisions you may or mAy not be facing. Sorry, no advice. See link Barry Schwartz: The paradox of choice | TED Talk | TED.com
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