Build list for 21' Escape

[Art M.]

Our list is due by May 1, 2015, for a July hatching. The list has benefited from ideas on this forum. Thank you!

Comments on any item are welcomed. We are especially interested in comments on the following two issues:

#2. Oven effectiveness in baking uniformly. We were intrigued by the Dometic-SMEV-oven/range model CU43410730000US? It got a rave review in Trailer Life March, 2015, pg 77 – they were unusually critical of typical RV ovens. However, I’m unable to locate a dealer; Dometic ‘knows nothing,’ so it may be ‘vaporware’ on this continent, and I just learned that ETI won’t install alternative ovens.
But – will the standard oven bake a loaf of bread nearly as well as a home oven, or should we leave it off our build list?

#12. 12 V heaters on water tanks: Reace says that with the sprayed foam, the trailer is good to -15 C (+5 F) without heaters, especially if daytime temperatures are above freezing. It’s hard to imagine that we would camp in colder weather than this, but we could imagine going to our lake home in Minnesota any time of year – in which case we would need to winterize the trailer before getting into really cold country. Any experiences that suggest that the heaters are worth having?

1. 2 way hot water tank
2. LED indicator switch on water heater
3. Oven with 3-burner cooktop [how well does this oven bake?]
4. Counter extension in kitchen by door and on night stand.
5. A/C with digital thermostat
6. 5-aluminum rims
7. Bike rack ready
8. Dual 6V batteries and 160 W solar panel
9. Install owner-supplied Hensley hitch. Lengthen safety chains, electrical cable, and break-away cable by 12” to 28” past lip of coupler.
10. Exterior hatch on rear driver side
11. Exterior shower
12. Extra insulation and thermal windows
13. Spray foam insulation under trailer [Any need for 12V heaters?]
14. Inverter 1500W with transfer switch
15. LED Awning light strip
16. LED interior light package
17. 4-LED Amber Exterior lights with triple switches at door like Donna D’s (1-three outside lights on, 2-only patio on, 3-interior lights on).
18. 8 LED captains reading lamps: 2 – over bed, 4- corners of dinette, 1 – kitchen counter, 1 – night stand
19. Reinforce all walls full length
20. Install customer supplied grab bar in bathroom
21. Microwave
22. Opening window in bathroom
23. Pedal flush toilet
24. Removable power cord
25. Stainless steel sink and chrome faucet
26. Starter kit
27. Stereo with four speakers: upgrade to Jensen AWM975 with weather band.
28. Storage cubby cabinet outside bathroom door
29. Storage box in front of trailer
30. Exterior propane quick connect.
31. Stabilizer pads on corner ‘jacks.’
32. Install extra grab bar just inside of door
33. Surge protector
34. TV ready with 12V with USB and 120 V outlets at two locations: over nightstand, and over dinette on driver’s side. No antenna or wall mount TV arm initially.
35. Additional 12 V with USB outlets by each 120 V outlet
36. Custom formica: Santa Cecilia Gold 3452-58 (or -46). (Lighter version of standard formica goes well with standard fabric – until we saw pictures of Escapes with custom fabrics). Keep scraps and kitchen sink cutout for us.
37. Chocolate brown edging on counters.
38. Custom fabric: samples on order that add red or other colors to mix
39. Standard bench seat dinette (we love the large table)
40. E-Z-Lube (or Nev-R-Lube?) bearings on Dexter axles
41. Maxxfan 7500 smokey [I understand that the 7000 white is similar, but is opaque without skylight feature.]
42. Are there optional doors for easier access to under-bed storage?
43. Winterizing T-valve.

[gbaglo]

I don't see an electric pencil sharpener.

[Art M.]

Whoops! We'll have to correct that oversight.

Thanks,
Art

[Dave&Kathie]

Woo, that's a lot of captains lights. We find the lighting to be very good as is. We did get the led bulbs in all the standard fixtures and only got the standard captains lights over the bed although quite a few people get them in the dinette corners. I love the oven. I use it on every camp out. I read that the heating could be too hot and uneven so I purchased a custom pizza stone for the bottom of the oven - works great. Also do you need all the walls reinforced? What for? You are adding a lot of weight, unless you are hanging lots of things on every wall I don't think you need that. You can add another door under the bed that faces the outside door - we did not but some folks like it. Dave installed a gas shock on the hatch to hold it up. And Charlie (who posts as tractors)installed a cool drawer that pulls out.

Looks like a great build sheet.

Kathie

[StarvingHyena]

Originally Posted by Art M.

Our list is due by May 1, 2015, for a July hatching. The list has benefited from ideas on this forum. Thank you!

Comments on any item are welcomed. We are especially interested in comments on the following two issues:

#2. Oven effectiveness in baking uniformly. We were intrigued by the Dometic-SMEV-oven/range model CU43410730000US? It got a rave review in Trailer Life March, 2015, pg 77 – they were unusually critical of typical RV ovens. However, I’m unable to locate a dealer; Dometic ‘knows nothing,’ so it may be ‘vaporware’ on this continent, and I just learned that ETI won’t install alternative ovens.
But – will the standard oven bake a loaf of bread nearly as well as a home oven, or should we leave it off our build list?

#12. 12 V heaters on water tanks: Reace says that with the sprayed foam, the trailer is good to -15 C (+5 F) without heaters, especially if daytime temperatures are above freezing. It’s hard to imagine that we would camp in colder weather than this, but we could imagine going to our lake home in Minnesota any time of year – in which case we would need to winterize the trailer before getting into really cold country. Any experiences that suggest that the heaters are worth having?

1. 2 way hot water tank
2. LED indicator switch on water heater
3. Oven with 3-burner cooktop [how well does this oven bake?]
4. Counter extension in kitchen by door and on night stand.
5. A/C with digital thermostat
6. 5-aluminum rims
7. Bike rack ready
8. &nbspual 6V batteries and 160 W solar panel
9. Install owner-supplied Hensley hitch. Lengthen safety chains, electrical cable, and break-away cable by 12” to 28” past lip of coupler.
10. Exterior hatch on rear driver side
11. Exterior shower
12. Extra insulation and thermal windows
13. Spray foam insulation under trailer [Any need for 12V heaters?]
14. Inverter 1500W with transfer switch
15. LED Awning light strip
16. LED interior light package
17. 4-LED Amber Exterior lights with triple switches at door like Donna D’s (1-three outside lights on, 2-only patio on, 3-interior lights on).
18. 8 LED captains reading lamps: 2 – over bed, 4- corners of dinette, 1 – kitchen counter, 1 – night stand
19. Reinforce all walls full length
20. Install customer supplied grab bar in bathroom
21. Microwave
22. Opening window in bathroom
23. Pedal flush toilet
24. Removable power cord
25. Stainless steel sink and chrome faucet
26. Starter kit
27. Stereo with four speakers: upgrade to Jensen AWM975 with weather band.
28. Storage cubby cabinet outside bathroom door
29. Storage box in front of trailer
30. Exterior propane quick connect.
31. Stabilizer pads on corner ‘jacks.’
32. Install extra grab bar just inside of door
33. Surge protector
34. TV ready with 12V with USB and 120 V outlets at two locations: over nightstand, and over dinette on driver’s side. No antenna or wall mount TV arm initially.
35. Additional 12 V with USB outlets by each 120 V outlet
36. Custom formica: Santa Cecilia Gold 3452-58 (or -46). (Lighter version of standard formica goes well with standard fabric – until we saw pictures of Escapes with custom fabrics). Keep scraps and kitchen sink cutout for us.
37. Chocolate brown edging on counters.
38. Custom fabric: samples on order that add red or other colors to mix
39. Standard bench seat dinette (we love the large table)
40. E-Z-Lube (or Nev-R-Lube?) bearings on Dexter axles
41. Maxxfan 7500 smokey [I understand that the 7000 white is similar, but is opaque without skylight feature.]
42. Are there optional doors for easier access to under-bed storage?
43. Winterizing T-valve.

Art, Hello and you asked if this oven will bake as well as your oven at home. I don't know anything about the oven you are speaking about in particular but I have lived on several boats with small volume (key words) propane ovens and I can pretty much guarantee that this oven will not bake as well as your home oven.... but will it do a serviceable job? No doubt ... with practice and recipe adjustment . The difference lies in interior heated air volume and oven wall insulation. The volume is important because baked items need oven airflow around them to heat evenly and with consistency .... oven wall insulation is important because as the oven cools, the propane heater lights up and drives the oven temp up ... maybe way up ... then heat is lost and baked goods cool and the cycle starts again. These cycles can change the dynamics of whatever is baked.

That said, my ex loved to bake and she was able to master a folding Colman oven heated over a single kerosene burner on board one of our boats. If she was baking while we were sailing, sometimes the brownies would have a pronounced wedge shape to them ... but they still tasted good.


Good Luck


Many people try to limit cooking inside their trailers for fear of attracting wild animals .... guess that depends on the neighborhood.

[float5]

Hi, Art,
Nice big list.

I would get the heat pads. Below zero is not uncommon.

These later models have a good amount of light but if you really like lots of light, go for it. As said, captains over bed standard.

I am interested in the oven answers as bread is what we would bake. We go looking for something other than air bread when out there and sometimes we find some great bread. It can be a nice change from having our own all of the time.

[BCnomad]

Personally I would double up on the existing lighting fixtures instead of all those reading lights. You must have your reasons though. Also light above bedroom window.

Would love a larger outside grab handle but look forward to seeing your extra handle on the inside.

Maxx fan rocks. Love the remote.

[rbryan4]

Art, if the extra captains lights are for accent lighting, maybe you could have them just run 12v drops to the corners of the overhead cabinets and wire them to a switch. You could add some puck style or flush 12v lights later.

For baking bread we LOVE our bread machine. We plan on taking it with us. Its a smaller unit and makes about a 1.5lb loaf. The good thing is that its always consistent, and while the bread kneads and bakes we can be out there hiking or enjoying the area.

As others have mentioned, I would probably not reinforce all the walls unless you intend to mount things to them.

The EZ lube axles are standard now I believe. You don't have to specify them.

Also, if you plan on custom fabric, get it to Escape as soon as you can. They need extra time to send it to the upholsterer. Make sure you add additional fabric if its a repeating pattern. You might also want to consider having the cushions upholstered on all sides instead of one side as vinyl. Makes them reversible. Some have also mentioned a custom mattress cover made with the upholstery fabric. Might look good in the 21 since the bed is adjacent to the door.

[cpaharley2008]

Having had the heat pads on my Escape 19' with the foam option I can say they are not needed as being redundant. The reason being is you will have to have electric if camping in very cold weather and with electric your camper will be warmer via the furnace and electric heat. In addition you also may have water available and you will need an electric water hose- add extra 120V outlet on the driver side by hook up. With this set up your trailer will be warm as well as your tanks.
If you do not have electric available then the heat pads can not be used as they will drain your battery really quick. Thus you need electric to use the heat pads and if you have electric then they are not needed.
I have used my oven once in my Escape 21' and made brownies and they turned out perfect. Would I roast a turkey, no but smaller items are fine. I went with the oven and dropped the microwave since I wanted the entire trailer to be able to operate on solar or propane. i only need electric for my air conditioning.
So I'd drop the pads but add an extra 120v exterior outlet on the driver side for those times a heated water hose may be used.Some cg may have an electric outlet by the water but not all do, this gives you some flexibility. In the water months a regular water hose will suffice.
One more addition I'd suggest is another 120v outlet on the bed corner, that will allow easier install of built in 120v electric heater by the bath which will also keep the bath warmer. See here on my thread http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...ck-3134-7.html

[Bill and Earline]

Art,
We picked up our 21' in November. We got the stationary TV antenna, and it works very well. I wouldn't be without it. We also got the setup for two TV locations, and with the particular non-ETI TV mount we used, we find that the TV location over the night stand can swing around for viewing at the dinette. We actually bought two different size Samsung TVs and tried them out after the purchase. Better safe than sorry, though, to have the two locations.
We also considered the four extra lights around the dinette, but found that the three existing double fixtures with LEDs provide all the light we could ever need, so glad we opted not to get more. I recommend you view someone's 21' (at night) before deciding this one.
We got the extra interior storage door under the bed facing the bath door, and think that will be useful. We got no reinforced walls, but we were concerned about weight due to our tow vehicle. ETI can probably tell you how much each wall would weigh, depending on size.
The several days we camped in 19 degrees, we disconnected the supply hose from the CG since it is not heated, and had no problems, since we were plugged in. We have the thermal windows, extra insulation and spray insulation underneath. Temps were around freezing while driving. Others can advise about running heat in extreme cold while driving. That is what I'd be more concerned about, and in that instance the heaters for the tanks would not be in use, since they use too much current--I think. If they can be used while driving, (with two batteries, solar, and tow vehicle power) they might be worth considering.
Congrats on possibly the most extensive list to date.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Art M.

Our list is due by May 1, 2015, for a July hatching. The list has benefited from ideas on this forum. Thank you!

Comments on any item are welcomed. We are especially interested in comments on the following two issues:

#2. Oven effectiveness in baking uniformly. We were intrigued by the Dometic-SMEV-oven/range model CU43410730000US? It got a rave review in Trailer Life March, 2015, pg 77 – they were unusually critical of typical RV ovens. However, I’m unable to locate a dealer; Dometic ‘knows nothing,’ so it may be ‘vaporware’ on this continent, and I just learned that ETI won’t install alternative ovens.
But – will the standard oven bake a loaf of bread nearly as well as a home oven, or should we leave it off our build list?

#12. 12 V heaters on water tanks: Reace says that with the sprayed foam, the trailer is good to -15 C (+5 F) without heaters, especially if daytime temperatures are above freezing. It’s hard to imagine that we would camp in colder weather than this, but we could imagine going to our lake home in Minnesota any time of year – in which case we would need to winterize the trailer before getting into really cold country. Any experiences that suggest that the heaters are worth having?

1. 2 way hot water tank
2. LED indicator switch on water heater
3. Oven with 3-burner cooktop [how well does this oven bake?]
4. Counter extension in kitchen by door and on night stand.
5. A/C with digital thermostat
6. 5-aluminum rims
7. Bike rack ready
8. Dual 6V batteries and 160 W solar panel
9. Install owner-supplied Hensley hitch. Lengthen safety chains, electrical cable, and break-away cable by 12” to 28” past lip of coupler.
10. Exterior hatch on rear driver side
11. Exterior shower
12. Extra insulation and thermal windows
13. Spray foam insulation under trailer [Any need for 12V heaters?]
14. Inverter 1500W with transfer switch
15. LED Awning light strip
16. LED interior light package
17. 4-LED Amber Exterior lights with triple switches at door like Donna D’s (1-three outside lights on, 2-only patio on, 3-interior lights on).
18. 8 LED captains reading lamps: 2 – over bed, 4- corners of dinette, 1 – kitchen counter, 1 – night stand
19. Reinforce all walls full length
20. Install customer supplied grab bar in bathroom
21. Microwave
22. Opening window in bathroom
23. Pedal flush toilet
24. Removable power cord
25. Stainless steel sink and chrome faucet
26. Starter kit
27. Stereo with four speakers: upgrade to Jensen AWM975 with weather band.
28. Storage cubby cabinet outside bathroom door
29. Storage box in front of trailer
30. Exterior propane quick connect.
31. Stabilizer pads on corner ‘jacks.’
32. Install extra grab bar just inside of door
33. Surge protector
34. TV ready with 12V with USB and 120 V outlets at two locations: over nightstand, and over dinette on driver’s side. No antenna or wall mount TV arm initially.
35. Additional 12 V with USB outlets by each 120 V outlet
36. Custom formica: Santa Cecilia Gold 3452-58 (or -46). (Lighter version of standard formica goes well with standard fabric – until we saw pictures of Escapes with custom fabrics). Keep scraps and kitchen sink cutout for us.
37. Chocolate brown edging on counters.
38. Custom fabric: samples on order that add red or other colors to mix
39. Standard bench seat dinette (we love the large table)
40. E-Z-Lube (or Nev-R-Lube?) bearings on Dexter axles
41. Maxxfan 7500 smokey [I understand that the 7000 white is similar, but is opaque without skylight feature.]
42. Are there optional doors for easier access to under-bed storage?
43. Winterizing T-valve.

We have yet to use all the lights in trailer . Maybe 2 at a time . They are bright we have the LEDs . We have the captain lights at the bed and really prefer the lights under cabinet for reading in bed . As for the oven would not be without . We have cooked garlic bread , baked potatoes , pizza , Mac and cheese , cinnamon rolls from Trader Joe's you bake , etc. great little oven . We are 68 and do need lots light for things and couldn't believe how bright the lighting is .. Escape added a outside handle for us right inside door frame . We thought we needed something more on outside but actually what we have works great and looks nice not changing the exterior looks but giving us safer entering and exiting . You are going to have a well equipped trailer . Congratulations .

[Patandlinda]

Also have 3 switches at door . 1 for each side of trailer and most important 1 to turn on ceiling light before we enter .

[Brian B-P]

I have always found the use of 12VDC power for heat pads interesting, as it seems impractical to run them on stored energy in a battery, or on solar power. Using 12VDC power via a converter from shore power makes no sense, because the pads could run directly on 120 VAC. My conclusion is that the 12VDC choice is to enable the use of the pads while towing.

While going down the road, there's lots of air circulation under the trailer, the trailer interior may not be heated to normal occupied levels, and the plumbing is not in use. 12 VDC heat pads make sense to me for people who tow in cold conditions (not just below freezing), a condition which is unlikely for most people in most locations, but may apply to some.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Art M.

40. E-Z-Lube (or Nev-R-Lube?) bearings on Dexter axles

Nev-R-Lube - which means sealed no-maintenance bearings - is not available from Dexter for the size of axles used by Escape (Torflex #10). On a trailer needing only 3000 pound axles and using components from Dexter Axle (the industry leader), you are stuck with traditional greased bearings and their required maintenance.

[tractors1]

I added a front outside light (with switch on the light) above the storage box. Makes it easy to see what's in there and hook/unhook the trailer at night. It's on the same outside wiring as a passenger side light I added.

The drawer Kathie mentioned is 36 long by 12 wide by 10 high, mounted on full extension 100 lb slides.

The added door next to the bathroom is for a removable "shoe drawer" with moveable dividers for muddy shoes; it's ABS plastic so I can hose it off outside.

[gbaglo]

I've found sealed no-maintenance bearings ( in a home furnace and the trailer furnace, and other applications ) are just as likely to fail as others - and likely to fail just outside of the warranty.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Nev-R-Lube - which means sealed no-maintenance bearings - is not available from Dexter for the size of axles used by Escape (Torflex #10). On a trailer needing only 3000 pound axles and using components from Dexter Axle (the industry leader), you are stuck with traditional greased bearings and their required maintenance.

Dexter does sell a Nev-R-Lube bearing for the #10 Torflex Axles - a 35mm cartridge. Dexter Axle - Trailer Axles and Running Gear Components - Nev-R-Lube Bearings

But, here's where it gets muddy. They are for the 6 bolt hubs -- not 5, as on the Escape. According to Dexter, "These axles are equipped with 6 on 5.50" bolt circle hub-drums and 10 x 2-1/4" brakes. The increased diameter of the hub prevents the use of smaller pilot 5 on 4.50" wheels."

[gbaglo]

I think there is a description in the furnace manual, "sealed, lifetime bearings".
Doesn't say whose lifetime.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Dexter does sell a Nev-R-Lube bearing for the #10 Torflex Axles - a 35mm cartridge. Dexter Axle - Trailer Axles and Running Gear Components - Nev-R-Lube Bearings

Good catch, Robert
The Nev-R-Lube brochure didn't list the 35 mm bearing cartridge size used for the Torflex #10, so it missed that axle size.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

But, here's where it gets muddy. They are for the 6 bolt hubs -- not 5, as on the Escape. According to Dexter, "These axles are equipped with 6 on 5.50" bolt circle hub-drums and 10 x 2-1/4" brakes. The increased diameter of the hub prevents the use of smaller pilot 5 on 4.50" wheels."

So it is available; however, Nev-R-Lube would require different wheels from Escape's standard or optional equipment, as the quoted section explains. It isn't the number of bolts that's important, it is the distance between them. If Escape is willing to supply different wheels, it could still be viable. Wheels with a 6 on 5.5" bolt pattern are normally used on heavier trailers so they only routinely come in larger sizes; fortunately, Escapes come with relatively large tires for their weight anyway, and 15" diameter wheels for 6x5.5" hubs are readily available. Although those wheels are typically a little wider than normally used with ST205/75R15 tires, the typical 6" width is still a good match for the tires.

[Brian B-P]

I don't know if sealed bearings increase bearing lifespan, since well-built and properly maintained vehicles (which sadly often does not include trailers) run for their lifetime in non-commercial use on their original wheel bearings, whether those bearings are conventional or sealed. The main benefit is avoiding regular maintenance, and given the poor maintenance practices I repeatedly read about in forums like this, that seems like a significant benefit to me.

The Dexter cartridge system looks strange compared to most sealed bearing systems, or at least those used in most cars. It seems to be designed to minimize the cost of the replacement cartridge if required, and to work with zero-offset wheels (because zero to small positive offset is the common practice for trailers).

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I've found sealed no-maintenance bearings ( in a home furnace and the trailer furnace, and other applications ) are just as likely to fail as others - and likely to fail just outside of the warranty.

I recently had to replace the draft inducer fan motor in my furnace because its bearings died... after 15 years, attached to the hot exhaust of the furnace. Perhaps non-sealed and serviceable bearings could have lasted longer, but I am glad I only had to replace this component once, rather than servicing bearings every year. If I could have replaced just the bearings (rather than the whole $90 motor) I suppose that would have been a very small advantage.

I note that even bicycles and medium-duty trucks (front axles) now use sealed cartridge bearings.