Cancelling Trailer Order

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by padlin

The OP needs to call ETI, the key word being call, and get the reason for not being reimbursed, they won't get the answer here.

I agree they should call ETI.

But, the reason is they had already signed off on their build sheet.

[Rossue]

The courts abhor forfeitures and in this case that seems exactly what that is, especially if the trailer was not built.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Rossue

The courts abhor forfeitures and in this case that seems exactly what that is, especially if the trailer was not built.

I didn't know you were Canadian Barrister or Solicitor.

You sign the build sheet and Escape immediately orders the components for you trailer.

You have up until you sign your build sheet to get almost all of your deposit back.

When you sign your build sheet you are specifically signing a clause that specifics that your deposit is nonrefundable.

Even if Escape was a California company and not a Canadian company.

THERE IS NO COOLING-OFF PERIOD UNLESS YOU OBTAIN A CONTRACT CANCELLATION OPTION

California law does not provide for a “cooling-off” or other cancellation period for vehicle lease or purchase contracts.  Therefore, you cannot later cancel such a contract simply because you change your mind, decide the vehicle costs too much, or wish you had acquired a different vehicle.  After you sign a motor vehicle purchase or lease contract, it may only be canceled with the agreement of the seller or lessor or for legal cause, such as fraud.

[Rossue]

You are the one citing chapter and verse sir. I stated Business Law 101. And in your motor vehicle example- if delivery is not made- i.e. car is not driven off the lot then there is certainly room to cancel. Even when they are sometimes deals can be "unwound".

I put a $500 deposit on on a used Subaru with a dealer. Yesterday a private party one became available and we bought it. Dealership immediately refunded my deposit. Among other things doing so enhances their Goodwill, which most businesses value greatly. Others seem to want to do things because they can.

I learned an important life lesson as a teenager. I put a $25 deposit on a surfboard. There days later I changed my mind. The owner refused to refund my deposit. My father reminded the owner that as a minor contracts are generally unenforceable. LSS the night before the Small Claims Court hearing. The owner drives up in his Corvette and not only refunds my $25, my dad made him pay him $25 for his time! The guy remarked " no one has ever done that before".

When someone drafts a contract the burden is on them to prove it's legitimacy. Again- Business Law 101.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Rossue

My father reminded the owner that as a minor contracts are generally unenforceable.

I don't believe the buyer was a minor.

And again, this is a Canadian company. The buyer had until the time they signed the build sheet to get almost all of their deposit refunded.

Escape has proof in the form of a signed contract (build sheet). That signed legal contract states: In order to secure your trailer completion date, we require a deposit of 2,000 USD which is initially refundable, less Payment Processor fees of 150 USD. Upon confirmation of your options, the full deposit amount becomes non-refundable.

[Pembyescape]

Here in Canada there are 5 key elements for a contract to be legally binding. On the face of the OPs thread I’d say their contract with Escape meets those 5 elements. However none of us are privy to the entire story and therefore opinions and anecdotes just that. It’s tough to walk away from A deposit but perhaps its better than actually taking delivery of a trailer that is unwanted. I’d say they are lucky the deposit wasn’t for 50% of the order as is commonly done in the construction industry. Change your mind on a window order after you’ve signed a contract and see what happens

[Rossue]

I agree with you and the 50% window order is curious as I am in that situation right now. We have two vinyl retrofit windows in a rental that have been leaking- not pervasive, yet persistent. After much diagnosis it was decided to replace with new construction windows. Covid made the tenants refuse to allow the window dealer access to measure. Now if we found out that somethings else was in fact the cause do you think the company would have the right to keep the deposit? Regardles, I can tell you having worked previously with this gentleman and knowing how much he values his reputation he would have no problem with a refund.

Hearing of this leaves me with a bad impression of the New ETI and the policy regarding refunds marks a significant departure from Reace & Tammy's policy. And that is on top of now quoting U.S. customers pricing in U.S. currency vs. CAD. Two strikes....

I have decided I will no longer show my trailer to prospective customers as my view of this company is one of general distrust.

[dgleaver]

I do understand the ramifications of signing the build sheet. BUT, I also think some communication from the company would have been nice. I emailed them twice and called twice. I never received a response. Poor customer service.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by dgleaver

called twice

Even in the height of Covid shut down, I've had a person answer the phone when calling during their normal business hours. It's very strange that they didn't answer the phone if you called during normal business hours.

[dgleaver]

They answered the phone, sent me to leave a voicemail, and no one returned my calls.

[steve dunham]

Since I am not a lawyer , I will not argue the legality of this issue !
My question is — Most of the components of an Escape trailer including optional equipment are standard ( Frame , body , windows , A/C , furnace , roof fan , cabinets , plumbing , electrical. propane , door , etc , etc ,etc ) so even if Escape ordered all the parts for the OP’s trailer they can still use them in another trailer so what is the monetary loss to Escape?
I could understand that if Escape had to special order parts / equipment for the OP’s trailer that are not part of the normal production process, where they suffered a financial loss .
From what we know so far the only cost Escape has occurred is administrative , which doesn’t total up to $2000
If the trailer has gone into production / assembly that is a different story .IMHO

[gbaglo]

Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile.
So, if ETI were to set aside their written policy for one person, should they then enforce it for a second person, or ten people?

When is a policy or a contract no longer a policy or contract?
Does it also work in reverse?

[Rossue]

You can always tell who has run a business vs. those who have not. There are exceptions to the rules that are handled on a case by case basis. Those who want to see things as "by the book" would probably fail in business as at the end of the day it is the customer who in effect signs the paychecks.

[oldwave]

I bought my trailer in 2007 and I believe the policies were the same. I had to have a change made on my paperwork and it cost me a 250 penalty. It was my mistake I just paid it and went on. So I am not sure of the policies have changed so much. I do remember some spots being transferred to another buyer and that buyer paid the original ordered the deposit, less the paper work change fee. Perhaps that might have been worked out? Or still can perhaps. They are filling orders next May now.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile.
So, if ETI were to set aside their written policy for one person, should they then enforce it for a second person, or ten people?

When is a policy or a contract no longer a policy or contract?
Does it also work in reverse?

I agree. If there was no penalty for backing out, even after signing off it's likely more would put down a deposit on spec and then back out, maybe at the last minute.

Seems to me the policy is spelled out to the nth degree and I don't like to see ETI slagged for operating with a clearly stated policy and conditions. It's unfortunate that a person might have to back out but I don't think that ETI's at fault.

Ron

[Rossue]

Could be wrong, however seem to remember there was a two-stage process to the deposit with Tammy(who ran the business side of things). If, after signing the build sheet you canceled then $500 was forfeit. If you canceled after the trailer went into production, then $1500 was forfeit. Sound familiar to others? If true, that is a 400% increase.

On another note it seems to me the real difference in a lot of businesses is the passion, or lack thereof. Founders of a successful company in most cases have this. You see this in many very fine restaurants. Later, when sold and employees basically run the show, then often times the quality falls off.

They say there is a 50% failure rate of 2nd Generation businesses- those handed down the family chain. And something like 75% failure rate for 3rd Generation.
Have no idea what it is with PE buying businesses, yet have to think in many cases it is not unlike the above in that the passion can't be the same as what the founders had. Employees sitting around at meetings trying to outshine the others with ideas to improve the bottom line. The saying used to be "there are too many lawyers. Now, to me there are too many MBA's.

Had a bit of personal satisfaction recently to back up my theory. The carrier I was an agent for orchestrated things (mainly financial incentives) to to induce consolidation in the agent ranks. And they wanted to be like Apple with all the glitz and grandeur of the "Customer Experience" in their retail stores. LSS I sold my stores to an agent out of Texas with 450+ stores. Part of the deal was for a store in my hometown to shutter- primarily to benefit the carrier's own company-owned store 12 miles away. We had been in town for about 15 years and then there was nothing for over five. Carrier opened their own at great expense recently and it did not last one year. Every time I drove by it was empty.
We had a terrific customer base and a competing carrier opens up shop after my former one closed and proceeded to siphon off much of the customer base(they are doing this Nationwide). Carrier noticed this but it was too little too late. We always kicked their(Company owned stores) butts in Mystery Shops too.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I agree. If there was no penalty for backing out, even after signing off it's likely more would put down a deposit on spec and then back out, maybe at the last minute.

Seems to me the policy is spelled out to the nth degree and I don't like to see ETI slagged for operating with a clearly stated policy and conditions. It's unfortunate that a person might have to back out but I don't think that ETI's at fault.

Ron

What people have to remember is every time Escape absorbs a cost for a particular individual it raises the prices for everyone else. I personally don't want to pay more for my trailer, because other people change their mind.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by oldwave

I bought my trailer in 2007 and I believe the policies were the same. I had to have a change made on my paperwork and it cost me a 250 penalty. It was my mistake I just paid it and went on. So I am not sure of the policies have changed so much. I do remember some spots being transferred to another buyer and that buyer paid the original ordered the deposit, less the paper work change fee. Perhaps that might have been worked out? Or still can perhaps. They are filling orders next May now.

It was suggested to the OP that she work something out with another buyer in advance then contact ETI about it.

Originally Posted by Scotttbaum

I just paid my deposit for a 19 but would love your spot. Don't know how that would work?

Originally Posted by TTMartin

If she's already signed off on her build sheet, you would likely have to accept most of the options she selected. The sooner the two of you contact each other and Escape to work something out the better (if possible at all) and the more flexibility you're likely to have in options.

I'm guessing that never occured.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

What people have to remember is every time Escape absorbs a cost for a particular individual it raises the prices for everyone else. I personally don't want to pay more for my trailer, because other people change their mind.

No one stated or suggested that the OP should get off Scot Free with Escape Trailers or Escape purchasers picking up the tab.
In reality we all pay for customer dissatisfaction with a product or merchant or service
When you or I purchase a product from Target or Amazon or Walmart and return it for a full refund do you believe their is no cost to the merchant and that cost is not passed along to the consumer in the price of the product ?
Customers change their minds all the time , both before and after they make a purchase

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

From what we know so far the only cost Escape has occurred is administrative , which doesn’t total up to $2000

I'm guessing that the administrative costs adds up. One thing that I've noticed over the years is the ever increasing comments about how much time one ETI staff or another worked with the purchaser sorting out multiple details. Hours of staff time add up.

Ron