Insulation under trailer + heating pads

[PGDriver]

Baileys in he morning coffee keeps you warm until lunch.

Cheers
Doug

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

Baileys in he morning coffee keeps you warm until lunch.

Cheers
Doug

So does Sin Whiskey (and I'm not a hard liquor drinker), but when you're cold... your're COLD! I could learn to like this stuff, tastes like Red Hots of my youth

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

So does Sin Whiskey (and I'm not a hard liquor drinker), but when you're cold... your're COLD! I could learn to like this stuff, tastes like Red Hots of my youth

Is that Sinfire Cinnamon Whisky? I had not heard of cinnamon whisky, but it makes sense... similar to spiced rum (which is horrible in the cheap versions, but good when done well).

I don't think it would work very well for the water and waste tanks...

[Jim Bennett]

I have a bottle of Fireball I can bring to the rally.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I have a bottle of Fireball I can bring to the rally.

If it's cold at the rally Jim... I'll be your friend

[Jim Bennett]

Deal.

[gabeck]

Thinking for Osoyoos we might like a little Kahlua over vanilla ice-cream it gets so warm .....might be a few folks needing a good stiff drink in Calgary tonight though - for those who have really big bottle !

[Jim Bennett]

At the rally in part years at Osoyoos, it is cool from sunset until near noon, then heats up big time.

A Scotch is definitely in order, as the Flames Go into overtime.

[gabeck]

A Scotch is definitely in order, as the Flames Go into overtime.[/QUOTE]

[Jim Bennett]

Yeah, baby!

Flames win.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Yeah, baby!

Flames win.

You mean NDP win.

[cpaharley2008]

Just checked the historical long range forecast, highs 25 and lows at 9 degrees centigrade. Not sure what that means but as long as it is not raining I'm happy.

[paulk]

Originally Posted by yardsale

This is our experience with heating pads and foam insulation after spending 6 weeks in Western US this past winter. If it is below freezing for an extended period of time and you are plugged in, the material in the tank will remain liquid due to the heating pad use. However, you will not be able to dump until the weather warms up for several days. This is why. Although the black tank is liquid, the route to the dump valve is through a 3' long 3" diamater pvc line which is insulated but not heated. Under sub freezing temps, the liquid in the pipe will freeze solid if it is just water and feces. Even if you "flush" with 100% pink stuff, it becomes a viscous "slushy" state and will not flow along that pipe. We had to pull our trailer into a heated garage for three days at 50 degrees to thaw it sufficently to dump. A possible solution to this might be to install another gate valve just under the black tank . This valve would be closed immediately after dumping such that the problematic pvc pipe remains empty until you are ready to dump. When dumping, you would open this valve, alowing the liquid contents of the black tank into the pvc pipe, then open the primary dump valve and dump normally. I have suggested this to Escape as a modification when you order the heated tanks but haven't heard back from them.

Regarding the use of tank heaters, while boondocking, I agree with others that the solar system will not provide sufficent power in the winter to use them.
Note this comment is for the 17' only. I don't know the specifics of the plumbing in the larger trailers.

Sorry for reviving this older thread, but I'm planning on requesting a modification to my soon to be built trailer along the lines discussed in this thread. I'm wondering if I should also request heating tape installed on the gray water discharge pipe. My build will include heating pads and foam insulation.

I have a question regarding the gray water pipe in freezing conditions while using the heating pads. Yardsale, you mentioned that the black tank pipe was frozen solid, but didn't mention the gray pipe. Was there any freezing observed in that pipe as well? What was the lowest temperature that your trailer was exposed to?

Does anyone else have any cold weather experience with regards to the gray tank pipe while using the gray tank heating pads?

I'm planning to ask ETI to move the black tank discharge valve right up to the 90 degree bend in the pipe where the black tank exits the trailer, exactly as described in the this thread.

Looking at the gray water pipe, I considered moving the valve upstream to where the gray water tank sits, however when I looked at a trailer last week, I found that this placement would be almost impossible to reach without physically laying down on the ground. Needless to say, that would be an uncomfortable requirement while being in a place where people dump sewage. The gray water pipe is only 1’2” long though compared to the 3’ black water pipe. My supposition is that the black water pipe, being 3’ long and having semi-solids inside that might impede convection, is much more subject to freezing than the gray water pipe. The gray water pipe has less solids, and should therefore convex much better with the heated water in the main gray water tank. Theory aside, I’m looking for first hand experiences to confirm or deny this.

[NW Cat Owner]

We're getting heat tape for the exposed pipes for both tanks. There's an additional $150 charge from ETI to do this. There will be a switch inside the trailer so you can turn it on or off. Yay on not having to go outside to fiddle with that.

I don't plan to use The Trailer in really super cold temperatures, but I want to be prepared, just in case. I know many on this forum will roll their eyes, thinking it's pointless and a waste of money. But, hey, they don't know how I'll be using my trailer, which could be different from how they use it.

We're also getting the heat pads and underneath insulation.

Another fellow on the forum is also getting heat tape, but only for one tank. He pointed me towards this product. It's not cheap at almost 9 bucks a foot and Reace thinks he'll need 50 feet to do our trailer. Yikes! But, it'll sure be worth it when it is needed.

12 Volt Heat Cable at OEMHeaters.com

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by NW Cat Owner

We're getting heat tape for the exposed pipes for both tanks.
...
I don't plan to use The Trailer in really super cold temperatures, but I want to be prepared, just in case.
...
We're also getting the heat pads and underneath insulation.

Another fellow on the forum is also getting heat tape, but only for one tank. He pointed me towards this product. It's not cheap at almost 9 bucks a foot and Reace thinks he'll need 50 feet to do our trailer. Yikes! But, it'll sure be worth it when it is needed.

12 Volt Heat Cable at OEMHeaters.com

I assume that the taped pipes will be insulated with pipe wrap insulation, before the spray foam.

This style of tape (which can be cut to length and auto-regulates at each point along its length, not just all-off or all-on) is much more desirable than common heat tape. I'm not surprised that it is expensive. I've only used the cheaper and common type, in 120V with a thermostat on the end.

50 feet at 3.5 watts per foot (from the linked page) is 175 watts... or 15 amps at 12 volts. The battery won't last long at that rate, so where is the power coming from? If it is the tow vehicle while towing, it would be good to ensure a really good charge circuit, since it is common for people to find that their system can't keep up with a refrigerator which draws less than that. If it is solar, that's a big solar system. If it is the converter running on shore power, then the tape could just be readily available 120V AC heating cable.

Fortunately, the tape will only run as needed to maintain a set temperature.

It does make sense to me to plan on running it only when shore power, but to use 12V in case it is occasionally needed while towing (with the refrigerator off or running on propane) or very short periods on battery. And of course it does make sense to have some form of heat tape, if handling conditions that would otherwise freeze the pipes is important to you.

[skyfree]

I'm getting this mod on our 17B as well. Both tanks. 2' of 3.5 watt/ft cable for each 1' of pipe would only be about 10' of tape for a 17B though. I wasn't quoted a price yet.

[cpaharley2008]

I doubt that one would operate the 12v heaters while towing, if they have been used prior night, one would normally empty their tanks prior to towing. Heated fresh water is most important to provide a source of water for the black tank which is inside and grey tank which is also outside. All the tanks are encapsulated with the foam, leaving just the discharge pipes exposed, which the ancillary heaters are being used to allow discharge of the heated contents. One would have to be using electric hookups to keep the batteries from being discharged, particularly at night.
I camped down near zero using the heat pads and keeping the furnace operating. I was able to discharge the next morning upon leaving the campground. I would not camp in this cold of weather without electric.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I doubt that one would operate the 12v heaters while towing, if they have been used prior night, one would normally empty their tanks prior to towing.

Ideally yes, but there are many variations of circumstances.

Up here, if the weather is freezing nearly all campgrounds are closed, and other than a few catering to full-time residents, even the ones which are open do not have water and sewer service. The RV dump sites operated by municipalities and businesses shut down. Electrical service in a campground can be maintained without difficulty regardless of weather (well, as long as the campground isn't flooded ) but freezing is a problem for water and sewer.

That means it would certainly be possible to be camped for the night - hopefully with shore power - and need to tow to a dump location.

[Losangeles]

I though out build sheet was done

Getting foam only.

Now having second thoughts.

Might add heating pads

Maybe even some heated tape on the discharge pipes.

[cpaharley2008]

I had the pads in my 19, only good with hook ups. With the foam and heat inside the 21 I have never had any issue without the pads.. If it is that cold where you need the tape, you will not be able to dump anywhere, so I'd only go with the foam. That is what I'm doing with Prairie Schooner.