Jack Antenna

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by dgleaver

Is the Jack antenna worth purchasing or just stay with the cable ready?

It should be noted that all of the posts with photos of antennas on poles, could / should use the 'cable in' port of the cable ready option. So even those that are using their TV with an antenna on a pole, aren't using the ETI installed Jack antenna in its default location.

[Mike Lewis]

King also makes an omnidirectional antenna called OmniPro (I think) which I have on my trailer on a retractable mast. Ron in BC recommended the Antop, and I bought one of those for my home. At about 22 feet above the ground it will pick up the CBS station in Dothan, Alabama, which is about 100 miles away from me. Reception is sketchy for that station, but nearer ones (Mobile, Pensacola) come in fine.

The mast the Antop is on holds other antennas and I plan to replace it with a taller one. The Antop will end up being a few feet higher, in case I ever want to watch TV from Dothan.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

..I think I am waiting for a leap in technology that is satellite based, so we can screw up the sky even further..............

So, I was curious, and as of 2016, there's 700 hundred million± pieces of stuff/debris in space. There's about 18,000 artificial objects, of which almost 1500 are operational satellites.

[dlakeman]

Originally Posted by 75thRanger

If I had it to do over I would not get the antenna either. I would also not get the camera and heat pads.

Why do you not recommend the camera and heat pads?

I'm in the process of filling out my Build Sheet. I have until August 27th to do so.

[gbaglo]

Camera doesn't replace GOAL - get out and look.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

Why do you not recommend the camera and heat pads?

I'm in the process of filling out my Build Sheet. I have until August 27th to do so.

We have the the camera and the heat pads and if ordering today we would not purchase those options again ( In over two years they have never been used )

*Camera*
I am more of a G Baglo guy “Get out and look”
My truck has a rear view camera but I still rely on my mirrors and a visual inspection

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

I'm in the process of filling out my Build Sheet. I have until August 27th to do so.

Here's the final version of my build sheet. This is my first Escape, but, not my first RV trailer. Feel free to ask any question you have on why I chose or didn't chose certain options.

Escape 19

Maple wood, Mill Creek Axle #4182 flooring, Silver Shalestone #9307-58 Formica with Black trim, Chinchilla Ultra Leather #6009 fabric, Battleship Gray #870 graphics.

Fridge (6 Cubic Foot)
Foot Flush Toilet
Toilet Shut Off Valve
Exterior Shower Passenger Side
Dual 6V Batteries Escape Supplied
190W Solar Panel with Charge Controller
Surge Protector
Removable Power Cord
Air Conditioner with Digital Thermostat (Dometic 11,000 BTU)
Keyless Door Lock
TV/Cable Ready with 120V Outlet
Window in Bathroom (Opening, Framed, Thermal)
Window in Kitchen (Opening, Framed, Thermal)
High Lift Axle
Double Step Entry Step
Cabinet Door at End of Bench
Exterior Propane Quick Connect with 12' Propane Hose and Adapter
Storage Box
Springfield Marine Pedestal for Dinette Table Slider Installed
One additional 12 volt outlet on bed side of kitchen / bed wall
Two additional Exterior LED lights front and rear
AMBER lens on all four exterior lights
Drawer under Wardrobe Closet
One Wardrobe shelf centered, I will add more adjustable shelves
Two 8 1/2" x 18" counter top extensions one on each of the bedroom walls
Full Wrap on Cushions and 3 additional yards of fabric
DO NOT INSTALL Solar and EMS remote displays leave in cabinet
DO NOT INSTALL handles on doors beneath fridge, bed, and dinette (may use doors as drawer fronts)
Stainless Steel Backsplash
Heat Pads Ready - run wires to beneath trailer and coil, do toggles etc inside trailer like normal
12V Drop - inside DS OH cabinet beside fridge wired to stereo 12V dedicated line
Two 8' pieces of Maple outside corner trim
One 4'x4' sheet of Maple paneling
Additional 13"x15" counter extension - DO NOT INSTALL to be used as drop leaf at 'pointy end' of dinette table
REINFORCE W1 and W5 - W1 (kitchen / bed) required for bedside counter extension, W5 (bathroom wall facing door), to allow grab rail in the bathroom in the future.
MODIFY KITCHEN CABINET under cooktop to accommodate Cx provided Convection Oven.
Two Filled Propane Tanks
X - Chocks

[UncleTim]

You know, I am not absolutely sure, but I am glad I got the heating pads. This is what I am thinking.

Living in Colorado, you can and will hit snow and sub freezing weather in many months. And I seem to be very active in those months. I don't stay in many campgrounds with electricity, because I boondock mostly or am in remote campgrounds with no electricity. So I can't use them there.

But if a cold front is going to move in, in a day or two, it might give me a chance to get to a spot with electricity. Then I might use the heating pads and let the storm blow over. I probably would. I also might use them in between trips in the Winter when I have the 5.0 at my house. Then I can just plug it in and prevent tank freezing. I can also use electric heat instead of propane too (or with it). So I can go a few days between coming and going.

Shoulder season is my preferred camping season. I like to have as many options as I can and I don't miss the money now that it's gone. I only need to use them a few times when they help to feel good about the purchase. That's my thinking.

[dlakeman]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Here's the final version of my build sheet. This is my first Escape, but, not my first RV trailer. Feel free to ask any question you have on why I chose or didn't chose certain options.

Escape 19

Maple wood, Mill Creek Axle #4182 flooring, Silver Shalestone #9307-58 Formica with Black trim, Chinchilla Ultra Leather #6009 fabric, Battleship Gray #870 graphics.

Fridge (6 Cubic Foot)
Foot Flush Toilet
Toilet Shut Off Valve
Exterior Shower Passenger Side
Dual 6V Batteries Escape Supplied
190W Solar Panel with Charge Controller
Surge Protector
Removable Power Cord
Air Conditioner with Digital Thermostat (Dometic 11,000 BTU)
Keyless Door Lock
TV/Cable Ready with 120V Outlet
Window in Bathroom (Opening, Framed, Thermal)
Window in Kitchen (Opening, Framed, Thermal)
High Lift Axle
Double Step Entry Step
Cabinet Door at End of Bench
Exterior Propane Quick Connect with 12' Propane Hose and Adapter
Storage Box
Springfield Marine Pedestal for Dinette Table Slider Installed
One additional 12 volt outlet on bed side of kitchen / bed wall
Two additional Exterior LED lights front and rear
AMBER lens on all four exterior lights
Drawer under Wardrobe Closet
One Wardrobe shelf centered, I will add more adjustable shelves
Two 8 1/2" x 18" counter top extensions one on each of the bedroom walls
Full Wrap on Cushions and 3 additional yards of fabric
DO NOT INSTALL Solar and EMS remote displays leave in cabinet
DO NOT INSTALL handles on doors beneath fridge, bed, and dinette (may use doors as drawer fronts)
Stainless Steel Backsplash
Heat Pads Ready - run wires to beneath trailer and coil, do toggles etc inside trailer like normal
12V Drop - inside DS OH cabinet beside fridge wired to stereo 12V dedicated line
Two 8' pieces of Maple outside corner trim
One 4'x4' sheet of Maple paneling
Additional 13"x15" counter extension - DO NOT INSTALL to be used as drop leaf at 'pointy end' of dinette table
REINFORCE W1 and W5 - W1 (kitchen / bed) required for bedside counter extension, W5 (bathroom wall facing door), to allow grab rail in the bathroom in the future.
MODIFY KITCHEN CABINET under cooktop to accommodate Cx provided Convection Oven.
Two Filled Propane Tanks
X - Chocks

Thank you for sharing your Build Sheet. Some options you have, I aren't available/possible on the 21C, however your sheet gave me some ideas.
Do you know the difference in height between High Lift Axle and "standard axle"? At what point (trailer frame or bottom of axle?) is the lift measurement taken?
I didn't see Spray Foam Insulation on your Build Sheet. I don't plan on seeing 32 degrees or lower so I wasn't getting the insulation, however I see you got the Heat Pad wiring. Why?

My main issue in selecting options is weight. Towing with a 4Runner (it is supercharged) with a 5000 lb limit may be a problem. If I selected all trailer options the weight would be 4015 pounds. That doesn't leave much for me, wife, German Shepherd, and gear. The Spray Foam Insulation adds 100 lbs for example. The Storage Box is another 100 lbs. Dual batteries is 70 lbs. Since I'm not planning on doing much dry camping, and not camping in freezing weather, I'm thinking I don't need those three heavy options. The 21C has a lot of internal storage.

[Tom&Joan]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

You know, I am not absolutely sure, but I am glad I got the heating pads. This is what I am thinking.

Living in Colorado, you can and will hit snow and sub freezing weather in many months. And I seem to be very active in those months. I don't stay in many campgrounds with electricity, because I boondock mostly or am in remote campgrounds with no electricity. So I can't use them there.

But if a cold front is going to move in, in a day or two, it might give me a chance to get to a spot with electricity. Then I might use the heating pads and let the storm blow over. I probably would. I also might use them in between trips in the Winter when I have the 5.0 at my house. Then I can just plug it in and prevent tank freezing. I can also use electric heat instead of propane too (or with it). So I can go a few days between coming and going.

Shoulder season is my preferred camping season. I like to have as many options as I can and I don't miss the money now that it's gone. I only need to use them a few times when they help to feel good about the purchase. That's my thinking.

Our used 2017 5.0 TA has heat pads, but I do not know how to turn them on if need be. Your switch is where? Although we live in Tennessee it is not out of the question that we would do cold weather camping here in the mountains or further north in the winter. So I am glad we have them, but need to know how to activate.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

Thank you for sharing your Build Sheet. Some options you have, I aren't available/possible on the 21C, however your sheet gave me some ideas.
Do you know the difference in height between High Lift Axle and "standard axle"? At what point (trailer frame or bottom of axle?) is the lift measurement taken?

The high lift kit goes between the axle mounts and the frame of the trailer, so it raises the frame of the trailer and everything attached to it by 2 5/8". It doesn't raise the axles themselves.

Originally Posted by dlakeman

I didn't see Spray Foam Insulation on your Build Sheet. I don't plan on seeing 32 degrees or lower so I wasn't getting the insulation, however I see you got the Heat Pad wiring. Why?

I plan on adding heatpads and foam insulation myself. I didn't want Escape to do it for two reasons. One is, I want to know where everything is under the trailer so if something needs repair, I know where it is. The second reason, is I plan on doing foam boards and limited amounts of expanding foam. That way the insulation will be sectional so I can remove only the section needed to do repairs, rather than chipping through spray foam, to get to something, and then having to use expanding foam to refill that area.

Originally Posted by dlakeman

My main issue in selecting options is weight. Towing with a 4Runner (it is supercharged) with a 5000 lb limit may be a problem. If I selected all trailer options the weight would be 4015 pounds. That doesn't leave much for me, wife, German Shepherd, and gear.

Yourself, your wife, and your German Shepherd, come out of the available payload of your tow vehicle and your gross combination weight rating (GCWR). It does not come out of your tow rating, as you shouldn't have your you, your wife or your dog in the trailer as you are towing it.

So your payload is based on your tow vehicles GVWR, minus the curb weight of your tow vehicle and the tongue weight of your trailer which should be 500 lbs (10% of your towed weight).

The GCWR of your vehicle should be equal to your tow vehicles GVWR, plus the tow rating. If the GCWR is less than that it comes into play. For example my tow vehicle has a GVWR of 8550 lbs, a GCWR of 13,550, and a tow rating of 5000 lbs. So, the GCWR never comes into play for me, as long I don't exceed the vehicles GVWR or the tow rating.

Originally Posted by dlakeman

The Spray Foam Insulation adds 100 lbs for example. The Storage Box is another 100 lbs. Dual batteries is 70 lbs. Since I'm not planning on doing much dry camping, and not camping in freezing weather, I'm thinking I don't need those three heavy options. The 21C has a lot of internal storage.

I would consider getting the storage box, just for the protection it provides the front of the trailer. Not to mention the extra storage space it provides.

[steve dunham]

If the electric tank heating system extended the full length of the tank drain pipe including the drain valve then I could see the value , On our previous trailer the gray tank did not freeze but the drain piping / valve did causing it to crack and leak .

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by Tom&Joan

Our used 2017 5.0 TA has heat pads, but I do not know how to turn them on if need be. Your switch is where? Although we live in Tennessee it is not out of the question that we would do cold weather camping here in the mountains or further north in the winter. So I am glad we have them, but need to know how to activate.

When looking out the back window of the dinette, the switches are quite obvious and under the right hand bench. I have the wrap around dinette. In this image, they are in the upper right hand corner. They are huge.

Keep in mind, as our good friend cpaharley always says, as long as you keep your propane on when out, you will not have to worry about freezing up the fresh and gray water. Keep that in mind.

[dlakeman]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

The high lift kit goes between the axle mounts and the frame of the trailer, so it raises the frame of the trailer and everything attached to it by 2 5/8". It doesn't raise the axles themselves.



I plan on adding heatpads and foam insulation myself. I didn't want Escape to do it for two reasons. One is, I want to know where everything is under the trailer so if something needs repair, I know where it is. The second reason, is I plan on doing foam boards and limited amounts of expanding foam. That way the insulation will be sectional so I can remove only the section needed to do repairs, rather than chipping through spray foam, to get to something, and then having to use expanding foam to refill that area.



Yourself, your wife, and your German Shepherd, come out of the available payload of your tow vehicle and your gross combination weight rating (GCWR). It does not come out of your tow rating, as you shouldn't have your you, your wife or your dog in the trailer as you are towing it.

So your payload is based on your tow vehicles GVWR, minus the curb weight of your tow vehicle and the tongue weight of your trailer which should be 500 lbs (10% of your towed weight).

The GCWR of your vehicle should be equal to your tow vehicles GVWR, plus the tow rating. If the GCWR is less than that it comes into play. For example my tow vehicle has a GVWR of 8550 lbs, a GCWR of 13,550, and a tow rating of 5000 lbs. So, the GCWR never comes into play for me, as long I don't exceed the vehicles GVWR or the tow rating.

Attachment 49583



I would consider getting the storage box, just for the protection it provides the front of the trailer. Not to mention the extra storage space it provides.

I should have been more clear on the weight. I realize wife, dog and me are part of the 4Runner's load. I looked at the Owner's Manual to ascertain the correct weight calculations and limits. My 4Runner's data plate reads 6300 lbs GVWR, which per Owner's Manual includes the tongue weight when towing. The 21C's hitch weight is 350 lbs according to Escape's brochure. Add the Storage Box and full propane tanks and actual weight should be around 500 lbs. That means the 4Runner can't weigh more than 5800 pounds with me, wife, dog, cargo. I filled up the gas tank, left my normal cargo on board, then wife and I went to weigh station. 4Runner weighed 5700 pounds. My hitch spare tire carrier will be removed (-75 pounds) and dog will be added (76 pounds). It's a wash! I'm 100 lbs under GVWR.

Now for trailer weight. A 21C with most every Option is 4090 lbs according to Escape's Build Sheet they sent me. That means my Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is 9790 lbs if I get most all the Options. Per 4Runner Owner's Manual the GCWR is max 11,300 lbs. I'm under in max weight!

I really like the idea of the foam boards for the insulation. Would you provide more specifics on type/thickness and specifically what surface material will be facing out (facing the road) from the underside of the trailer? How will you secure the foam board to the trailer underside. I'm not envisioning how road debris won't tear up the foam board.

Thank you for your multiple and lengthy replies. That's what this Forum is all about. You've been a great help.

[John in Santa Cruz]

no way a 21 has a 350 lb hitch weight, when its got a 5000 lb GWR. at its max load, the hitch weight /should/ be 10-15% of the GWR, or 500-750 lbs. you can affect this by how you load, more weight in the back of the trailer == lighter tongue, more weight in front == heavier tongue.

running around 4000-4200 lbs typical load on my 2014 21 classic, my hitch is anywhere from 400 to 500 lbs depending on load. if I have a 50 lbs and 25 lb bicycle on a 40 lb rack on the rear hitch of the escape, the tongue is often borderline too light.

now, MY tow vehicle is <cough> a 2002 F250 7.3 diesel longbed, with a 2000 lb payload, 8800 lb GVWR, 1200 lb hitch weight, and 12500 lb max tow, hah. oh, and 22000 lb GCWR. only time that truck has been close to its max load was when my son filled the longbed (8 foot long...) with big fresh oak logs, that put the rear axle on its overload leafs, something I'd never come close to. quite frankly, with this rig I don't pay hardly any attention to anything other than if the hitch is on the light side as thats a little less stable and I'm not into messing with swaybars or WDHs on this rig.

[75thRanger]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

Why do you not recommend the camera and heat pads?

I'm in the process of filling out my Build Sheet. I have until August 27th to do so.

My thinking on the camera was to use it to watch traffic behind me rather than a backup aid. Doesn't work for me. Weather makes a bit difference in what I can see. Sun behind me, Forget it. Things are also closer than they appear.

No idea what I was thinking when I ordered the heat pads. I live in South TX and have no plans to travel to cold places.

[75thRanger]

The switches for the heat pads look the same as the totally useless battery switch that was in use when I got my 21 (Aug 19). I changed them when I installed a rotary battery switch.

They're temp controlled if on and I don't like that feature. I want to be able to turn something on or off myself even if it's 90 outside.

I would almost bet I'm the only one here with an F250 (or any truck) with a manual tran. I shift when 'I' want to.

[75thRanger]

About the TV stuff. I got both the cable and sat ready ports. The 'cable' cable is mounted to the wall inside and the sat cable comes into the overhead cabinet with about 3 ft slack to attach to a sat box.

I don't know if both are RG6 but they should be. If the cable port uses RG6 then why did I get the sat port to? Just attach the sat box to the cable port inside. I would ,of course, have the sat antenna attached to the cable port outside.

Since the Jack antenna uses the same wall connection as the cable inside, there is probably something there that would preclude using it for sat. A puzzlement!

Confusing me is no challenge.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by 75thRanger

No idea what I was thinking when I ordered the heat pads. I live in South TX and have no plans to travel to cold places.

Probably for the same reasoning I bought A/C , living on the Canadian border with no intentions of going farther South than Iowa .

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

I should have been more clear on the weight. I realize wife, dog and me are part of the 4Runner's load. I looked at the Owner's Manual to ascertain the correct weight calculations and limits. My 4Runner's data plate reads 6300 lbs GVWR, which per Owner's Manual includes the tongue weight when towing.

Yes, tongue weight comes out of your payload.

Originally Posted by dlakeman

The 21C's hitch weight is 350 lbs according to Escape's brochure. Add the Storage Box and full propane tanks and actual weight should be around 500 lbs.

As I mentioned in another post, tongue weight can and should be adjusted based on how you load the trailer.

Everything you load behind the rear axle decreases the tongue weight.

Everything you load in front of the front axle increases the tongue weight.

Regardless you should figure / target a 500 lb tongue weight.

Originally Posted by dlakeman

That means the 4Runner can't weigh more than 5800 pounds with me, wife, dog, cargo. I filled up the gas tank, left my normal cargo on board, then wife and I went to weigh station. 4Runner weighed 5700 pounds. My hitch spare tire carrier will be removed (-75 pounds) and dog will be added (76 pounds). It's a wash! I'm 100 lbs under GVWR.

Now for trailer weight. A 21C with most every Option is 4090 lbs according to Escape's Build Sheet they sent me. That means my Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is 9790 lbs if I get most all the Options. Per 4Runner Owner's Manual the GCWR is max 11,300 lbs. I'm under in max weight!

I'm getting an Escape 19, and tend to think in those terms in my discussion.

While the numbers work out for a 21C being towed by an SUV, the extra width brings an other factor into play that's the frontal area of the trailer, and the wind resistance it causes.

From yangstyle in this post: Frontal Area Limitations/Considerations

Originally Posted by yangstyle

One thing to keep in mind if your trailer is close to your TV specs for payload and/or towing limit is what Ford calls Frontal Area Considerations from their Trailer Towing Selector;

"Frontal Area Limitations/Considerations
F-150
55 sq. ft. Any Powertrain with Trailer Towing Package or Payload Package
and Trailer Towing Ratings Between 5,001 and 7,700 lbs.
60 sq. ft. Any Powertrain with Trailer Towing Package or Payload Package
and Trailer Towing Ratings 7,701 lbs. and Greater
75 sq. ft. All 5th-Wheel and Gooseneck Applications with Any Powertrain
with Trailer Towing Package or Payload Package

Frontal Area is the total area in square feet that a moving vehicle and trailer exposes to air resistance.

The chart above shows the maximum trailer frontal area that must be considered for a vehicle/trailer
combination. Exceeding these limitations may significantly reduce the performance of your towing vehicle."

Your performance while towing 3500-4000 lbs on a flat deck that is 3 feet high will be different that the same weight that is 9 feet high.

Another, thing with the 21C you have a way more storage than you could safely fill and still stay under the 5000 lb GVW of the trailer. I'm sure that many 21s are loaded to exceed their GVW, it's almost human nature to see a hole and want to fill it.

If you do decide to tow a 21C with your SUV, keep your speed down. Remember, just because the speed limit is 70 or 80 mph, doesn't mean you should be going that fast. Leave plenty of room between you and the vehicle you're following. Do not exceed suggested speeds (yellow), heed warning signs for trucks to use lower gears, etc.


What appears to be an Escape 21NE, that was being towed by the white SUV.