Just Ordered a 21 - Another Window Discussion

[mstruzz]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Matt, and my wife Nadine and I just put in our order for a new 21. We have a 11 month old and decided that it was way better to keep up our camping lifestyle with a trailer, and the 21 is a great fit. I've been researching the forum for a while now, and there is a load of great info on here!

One of the thing's I'm wrestling with, as many others have noted, is the window decision. Being in Colorado, we are definitely getting the extra insulation and thermal windows. However it looks like ETI has changed their options list, and there are now options for Framed and Frameless THERMAL windows. My understanding is that the framed thermal is a newer option, and that framed in the past used to be non-thermal.

I'm leaning towards the framed thermal for a few reasons. 1) It is cheaper, 2) they open more for better airflow, 3) I've seen some folks have had leaking and other QC issues with the frameless. I like the look of the frameless, but am not particularly concerned with how it looks over function.

Does anyone know about the framed thermals or have experience with them? Also, does anyone know if the new framed thermal have a window in the back (dinette) that opens up?

Thanks! I might be asking a few more questions on my build but will try to research everything first, so as not to open up topics that have already been discussed.

[cpaharley2008]

Escape framed windows, thermal or non thermal have been installed since the beginning. In 2016 Escape started offering the frameless windows in the thermal version. But the smaller windows had some issues so now they are only available in the non thermal configuration, which means single pane in either framed or non framed versions. Cold weather camping will cause the framed windows to frost over, then heat inside will cause them to sweat and drip. Frameless windows do not frost over as easy as the framed thus, IMHO better suited fr cold weather. In additional the frameless rear windows open, framed do not. You can also order an additional small window in the E21 over the 2 drawer stack as an option. With no front window the more windows you have the more open you will feel. Thus with the small bath and dryer stack windows you will have a nice cross breeze and not worry about rain as the frameless can be open the the rain, framed can not.

[Ron in BC]

Don't worry about an issue having been discussed before, that's pretty common. And where windows are concerned it's an ongoing conversation with strong views on both sides.

To clarify one item; it's not a black and white situation. For example the front window on my 19 (and on my soon to arrive 21) is a single glazed window because front windows don't come double glazed. So it's not a case of absolutely all double glazed.

Previously I've had single glazed framed windows in boats and my Scamp. On my 19 the double glazed windows had less condensation than the single glazed front window.

I'm not a fan of awning type windows, one room in my house has them and it has the poorest ability to have a cooling breeze.

So, my new 21 has framed thermal windows including a single glazed front window. We often spend the night in out of the way places or truck stops etc. and I like to be able to see out in all 4 directions. Also lot's of opinions on the bathroom window. We have a bathroom window.

I've never thought that an opening rear window was a great idea considering how mud caked the rear of the trailer gets but maybe that's not a concern for many.

Lot's of options, lot's of opinions. Good luck.

Ron

[MyronL]

It wasn't an option when I bought my 19. We have the framed thermal windows - I am fine with them. Never felt bothered by condensation, or rain. I get all the breeze I need.

The view is nice. We do a lot of overnight boondocking at WalMart and at truck stops. There, I like my front (non opening) window primarily because staying hitched in those places it allows me to keep an eye out at the front for potential overnight prowlers. I should add though-- never had an issue with that.

[AnJ]

We had this to decide on as well when we ordered our trailer last year. I don't quite remember exactly the details, so maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

After reading what we felt like was every post on the forum about windows (so many and so much info!), I remember reading something about the issues with the "frameless" thermal being that there was a batch of windows that the manufacturer had made at a different factory/location or something and those were the ones with the issues. The ones made at the "other" factory were identified by rivets at the top of the windows, I believe. ETI confirmed that none of the windows they were currently installing had rivets or were from the other factory. We have not had any issues with the windows separating.

This summer while camping in very heavy, sideways blowing rain with the windows open/ closed, some water was dripping in through the emergency window. ETI said that they now install rain guards at the tops of the windows and since then, we have not had any leaking issues at all, even with the windows open in the rain. They installed them for free and had it done in a couple hours.

[War Eagle]

Matt, we went with the framed "slider" thermal windows on our 21' and have been very happy with them. One other bonus - in addition to the extra wall/ceiling insulation and the spray foam insulation underneath that we ordered, we feel that our double-pane thermal windows help keep it nice and quiet inside our 21' when camping in relatively noisy areas due to things like high volume traffic passing by, children playing late into the night, neighbors who "party hearty" into the early morning hours, etc.

[Perry Butler]

We've had slider windows in our previous campers. They're nice, BUT, if you leave them open and it rains you get water inside your camper. Plus the track MUST be kept clean and the weep holes open or you can get water inside the camper, and/or the windows will bind. These problems don't occur with awning windows. I saw nothing different or magical with the slider windows ETI installs to address these issues. These are maintenance issues with sliding windows that seem to never be mentioned.

I've read something like, "we get all the breeze we need" in numerous threads with sliding windows. Guess what, so do we with our awning windows! That's not an issue.

Yes, there has been problems with smaller windows delaminating (for us, it's the window in the bath that we never open), but that's an issue we're willing to accept, to avoid the problems with sliding windows, and have the advantages of awning windows. TETO!

Enjoy,

Perry

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Plus the track MUST be kept clean and the weep holes open or you can get water inside the camper, and/or the windows will bind. .... I saw nothing different or magical with the slider windows ETI installs to address these issues. These are maintenance issues with sliding windows that seem to never be mentioned.

I'd have dispute this and say it's probably more about where you're gaining your information.

Plugged weep holes and leaks to the inside of trailers is a pretty big topic in all the all-molded forums and has been for years.

When people ask for help for leaks below the window(s) inside their trailers, it's often the first thing mentioned. "Are the weep holes clear."

Applying a lubricant to the slide is a maintenance issue and if done (at least) once a year, the window(s) slide easily.

Even those of us with sliding windows have one that's an 'awning style.' For me, it's the egress window in the rear dinette. I need to apply a lubricant to the rubber gasket on the body, or the window "sticks." I'm afraid I'll tear the rubber gasket unless it's lubricated. I use 303.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I'd have dispute this and say it's probably more about where you're gaining your information.

Plugged weep holes and leaks to the inside of trailers is a pretty big topic in all the all-molded forums and has been for years.

When people ask for help for leaks below the window(s) inside their trailers, it's often the first thing mentioned. "Are the weep holes clear."

Applying a lubricant to the slide is a maintenance issue and if done (at least) once a year, the window(s) slide easily.

Even those of us with sliding windows have one that's an 'awning style.' For me, it's the egress window in the rear dinette. I need to apply a lubricant to the rubber gasket on the body, or the window "sticks." I'm afraid I'll tear the rubber gasket unless it's lubricated. I use 303.

I'm gaining my information from actual experience owning 15 campers including Scamp and Casita. However, it seems you basically agree with the maintenance issues.

Yes, once a year I'll be lubing our awning gaskets with 303. I never said there was no maintenance with awning windows, just not near as much.

Enjoy,

Perry

[MyronL]

Only window maintenance I ever done with my 2013 Hehr sliders was with Windex. I say don't worry, be happy. My 1981 Burro had sliders but they were plastic windows and would flex in a wind. I replaced them with Hehrs.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Only window maintenance I ever done with my 2013 Hehr sliders was with Windex. I say don't worry, be happy. My 1981 Burro had sliders but they were plastic windows and would flex in a wind. I replaced them with Hehrs.

The only maintenance Ever done with our 2013 19 windows , wash the trailer . The only window that needs attention the escape awning window , 303 or it will stick to side of trailer . Never had any leaking or problems with the sliders . Have had them for over 30 plus years .
Pat

[Greg A]

First I'd heard as well I was supposed to be doing maintenance to my slider windows on our 2015 19. Working perfectly as always. We've also had many trailers and no issues with non-maintained slider windows on any of them.
Does this mean we're supposed to be doing maintenance on all the slider windows on our house that operate the same way? I'll never have any time to go camping.
Enjoy camping with whatever windows you have, they all work to some degree or another.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Greg A

First I'd heard as well I was supposed to be doing maintenance to my slider windows on our 2015 19. Working perfectly as always. We've also had many trailers and no issues with non-maintained slider windows on any of them.
Does this mean we're supposed to be doing maintenance on all the slider windows on our house that operate the same way? I'll never have any time to go camping.
Enjoy camping with whatever windows you have, they all work to some degree or another.

Not all of us are fortunate enough to store our trailers out of the weather. And yes, I do apply lubricant to my house sliders too. IF you saw the gunk (usually moss) that gets trapped in the weep holes (it's hidden by the covers), you'd probably do once a year maintenance of the sliders in your trailer too.

[Greg A]

Probably you hit on it Donna. We don't have Moss or trees to any degree down here in AZ so the windows don't get fouled on house or trailer. So you're right, it is probably location dependent on whether window maintenance is needed.

[padlin]

Not that I do any window maintenance, but the only window I have trouble with is the one awning style. Just noticed the rubber gasket in one corner is failing. Lubing the rubber isn't going to help this one, it's the rubber that wraps the edge of the glass. Are the newer trailers still using Hehr?

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by padlin

Not that I do any window maintenance, but the only window I have trouble with is the one awning style. Just noticed the rubber gasket in one corner is failing. Lubing the rubber isn't going to help this one, it's the rubber that wraps the edge of the glass. Are the newer trailers still using Hehr?

That too is a notorious problem. Usually on much older trailers though. The rubber gasket gets brittle and pulls away at the corners. I wonder if 303 on the gaskets would help delay the problem? There's a groove in the gasket. Put a dab of black RV windshield caulk on the window 'rail,' stretch the gasket with your thumbs and push it back on.


Wait... the pic looks like a slider... not an awning-style. My suggestion is for the sliders.

[padlin]

I'm just guessing, but it looks like the gasket wraps around the glass, kind of a U shape, and is then pressed into the windows frame. The edge of the glass side of the rubber U gasket is pretty this, looks like it split there. You can 303 both sides of the U, inside and outside, but not that this edge part.

After it split the now loose outside part kind of springs up, like a rubber band. Suppose glue is worth a shot but I'll have to tape it to hold it in place till it sets, time will tell if it holds.

It's still water tight so I'm not overly worried, yet.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by padlin

I'm just guessing, but it looks like the gasket wraps around the glass, kind of a U shape, and is then pressed into the windows frame. The edge of the glass side of the rubber U gasket is pretty this, looks like it split there. You can 303 both sides of the U, inside and outside, but not that this edge part.

After it split the now loose outside part kind of springs up, like a rubber band. Suppose glue is worth a shot but I'll have to tape it to hold it in place till it sets, time will tell if it holds.

It's still water tight so I'm not overly worried, yet.

Bob what about some kind of rubber sealant ? Was in Lowe’s today and they have all kinds of the flex seal in colors too. Saw smaller cans of the spray too , I never saw before . So far ours is doing ok but interested in what you do in case ours does that too . Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Not all of us are fortunate enough to store our trailers out of the weather. And yes, I do apply lubricant to my house sliders too. IF you saw the gunk (usually moss) that gets trapped in the weep holes (it's hidden by the covers), you'd probably do once a year maintenance of the sliders in your trailer too.

Hey Donna makes sense . But our trailer has to stay out in the weather but not any rain
At home the sliders get dirt occasionally have to clean tracks but that is it . Pat

[mstruzz]

Hey Everyone,

Want to thank y'all for chiming in here, a lot of good information and things to think about. I think we are leaning towards the sliding, and putting the saved money on the awnings towards some other goodies. But keep any more comments coming!

I'll probably send over some more questions and a build sheet for comments shortly! Meanwhile I'll keep looking at information out there-

Thanks
Matt