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08-22-2020, 06:52 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ravena, New York
Trailer: Getting a 21NE early next year
Posts: 291
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Need help figuring out build sheet
I recieved a build sheet for a 2021 21NE yesterday, and have gone over it. Nothing fancy, as we plan on paying cash when we buy it. Also, we will have it delivered I think. Not absolutely sure about that. But I do have some questions:
1. For instance, is it worth it to get an inverter?
2. What is a transfer switch?
3. If we plan to carry a standup solar kit, what do I need Escape to do so we can tie it in?
4. Is the spray foam underneath worth it?
5. They give two choices for tables. For a couple, what's best?
Just so you folks know, base price for a 21NE in 2021 is $28,995.
Thanks for any help!
Frank
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08-22-2020, 07:57 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
I recieved a build sheet for a 2021 21NE yesterday, and have gone over it. Nothing fancy, as we plan on paying cash when we buy it. Also, we will have it delivered I think. Not absolutely sure about that. But I do have some questions:
1. For instance, is it worth it to get an inverter?
2. What is a transfer switch?
3. If we plan to carry a standup solar kit, what do I need Escape to do so we can tie it in?
4. Is the spray foam underneath worth it?
5. They give two choices for tables. For a couple, what's best?
Just so you folks know, base price for a 21NE in 2021 is $28,995.
Thanks for any help!
Frank
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1) That depends , we have the whole trailer inverter and have never used it ( Bought because of medical equipment) but others find it useful . It is nice for making a quick cup of coffee in the morning.
2) A transfer switch is used with an inverter to isolate the inverter power from shore power ( Safety)
3) Escape can install a Zamp style port on the exterior of your trailer so you can connect your portable solar panel and charge your battery.
4) We have the spray foam and heating pads . Whether it’s a desirable option depends on where , when and how you camp —- Like anything else there are pros and cons
5) We have the Springfield table mount which works okay but if we were ordering again we would probably choose the lagun
IMHO : Escape’s prices on options are very reasonable so a lot depends on if you like doing your own mods or would rather spend your time traveling / camping
**I would seriously consider getting the factory roof mounted
solar panel , The price is fair and it works well—- We have both the factory solar panel and a portable solar panel **
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08-22-2020, 08:03 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
I recieved a build sheet for a 2021 21NE yesterday, and have gone over it. Nothing fancy, as we plan on paying cash when we buy it. Also, we will have it delivered I think. Not absolutely sure about that. But I do have some questions:
1. For instance, is it worth it to get an inverter?
2. What is a transfer switch?
3. If we plan to carry a standup solar kit, what do I need Escape to do so we can tie it in?
4. Is the spray foam underneath worth it?
5. They give two choices for tables. For a couple, what's best?
Just so you folks know, base price for a 21NE in 2021 is $28,995.
Thanks for any help!
Frank
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Here we go...
1. If you are going to camp without a power connection, the inverter will supply 120v AC for stuff. My wife and I can't do without it as we have a microwave, laptop, various chargers, etc.
2. If you have the inverter, you have two choices on the number of outlets it powers. Without the transfer switch, only one outlet is supplied with 120v. With the transfer switch, most of the outlets are supplied with 120v. The transfer switch switches a number of outlets from the shore power to inverter power when shore power is disconnected.
3. Personally, I would not have Escape do anything. You will need to install a SAE solar port - drill a small hole, attach with four small screws and connect two wires. Takes longer to describe it than it takes to do it. A SAE solar port cost about $10.
https://www.amazon.com/CERRXIAN-Weat.../dp/B07TB7XH2H
4. In Texas, not so much. Up north, depends on if you plan to camp in the shoulder months. The foam does make it difficult to work on stuff under the trailer.
5. Your on your own with that one. We have the U shape dinette with the Dicor slide and love it. Other have the standard dinette and love it too. Personal choice. See if you can get a trailer tour and see for yourself.
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
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08-22-2020, 08:23 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: None, sold my 2014 5.0TA
Posts: 7,124
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1. Inverter only if you need to run 120vac items when you do not have hookups.
3. If you don't want to do what TDF-Texas mentions yourself, have ETI do it.
4. Personal choice, seems most folks are happy with which ever way they chose to go. I have it, after 7 years I'm ambivalent about it.
5. The U dinette works well for the 2 of us. It gives us the back bench where we can keep stuff, like Deb's craft items, while not in motion. It also gives our small dog somewhere to hang out as opposed to the floor. The grand kids have sat back there but I'd think it pretty useless for more adults. I did cut the table down to 24" which helps.
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
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08-22-2020, 08:54 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ravena, New York
Trailer: Getting a 21NE early next year
Posts: 291
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Thanks Steve, TDF, and padlin.
I can manage installing a solar port for 10 bucks. Always have done my own house and hot rod wiring. Current hot rod I'm carpeting today will be sold to help pay for this trailer. Not sure when I'll be done, but so far, so good. Also, we'll be home for speels during the summer babysitting our granddaughter.
Some of the options are nuts, i.e., things I had in other trailers that were included in the base price. With $29,175 for a base price, right now looks like we'll add maybe 3 grand, maybe a tad more. Hot rod should sell for about that, maybe a bit less.
Thanks again folks.
Frank
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08-22-2020, 09:43 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Smithers, BC, British Columbia
Trailer: Escape 21, July 2018 delivery
Posts: 322
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I'll chime in on the foam insulation. When this stuff is applied, it gets all over your steel frame. In the long run, if the foam, or the paint beneath it, detaches, which I consider pretty much inevitable, the cavity left, and the water and dirt that would get into it could dramatically increase frame corrosion. The same corrosion issue could affect the copper propane lines.
The other aspect of the foam that I dislike is the interference with maintenance tasks that will inevitably come up over time. All your electrical and propane lines get buried out of sight, and if you think that you will never have to do anything with them, I wish you good luck with that. Just finding what you need to work on may require carving large areas of foam out of the way.
I would not do it. We camp in shoulder season all the time, and have had no issues with cold floors. We just wear slippers. Others have added removable foam panels beneath sections of the floor, which I have considered doing, but so far have not found necessary. A significant portion of the floor you might be interested in insulating is covered by the grey and fresh water tanks anyway, so there really isn't that much that you can accomplish.
The one issue that I have dealt with re. insulation is insulating the fresh water drain and supply line of the fresh water tank, and the water lines leading from beneath the bed to the cupboard beneath the kitchen sink. The latter lines are on the outside of the trailer floor and fully exposed to outside temperatures. We had it freeze on us last fall during -6C overnight temperatures, but fortunately no damage was done. I had already insulated the supply line from the tank, so had no problem with that. In order to insulate the lines from the bed to the kitchen cupboard, I moved them away from the steel frame by drilling new holes in the floor of the kitchen cupboard, and filled the old holes with epoxy gipe. The original installation placed the holes up into the cupboard pretty much flush to the steel frame which made decent insulation of the lines impossible. Doing these lines required cutting and re-crimping them. I keep a crimper and some fittings in my repair kit. For about two feet, insulating the lines could not be done without getting foam next to the frame on one side, so I greased the frame there before applying the foam. The grease should at least delay if not entirely avoid the corrosion problem, and in any case, the location doesn't appear to me to be that vulnerable to minor reductions in frame strength.
Insulation of the fresh water line/drain at the fresh water tank and the kitchen sink lines was done with a combination of plastic pool noodle and spray foam.
Just my two cents - I would not choose the ETI foam package, but I would insulate the two external water lines subject to freezing.
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08-22-2020, 10:49 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Venice, Florida
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19
Posts: 1,265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
I recieved a build sheet for a 2021 21NE yesterday, and have gone over it. Nothing fancy, as we plan on paying cash when we buy it. Also, we will have it delivered I think. Not absolutely sure about that. But I do have some questions:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
1. For instance, is it worth it to get an inverter?
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I didn't get one, because, I eventually I plan on upgrading my batteries and getting a higher wattage one.
In the meantime, I purchased WEN 2350 Inverter Generator ($430 USD) that can power everything the Inverter could and things the Inverter couldn't like a Convection Micowave, and the Air Conditioning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
2. What is a transfer switch?
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Without the transfer switch the inverter only powers one outlet by the dinette. With the transfer switch the inverter will power all outlets, and the Escape supplied microwave if installed. It will NOT power the air conditioning or the Convection Microwave is that option is selected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
3. If we plan to carry a standup solar kit, what do I need Escape to do so we can tie it in?
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I would recommend getting a single roof mounted solar panel and the Zamp connector.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
4. Is the spray foam underneath worth it?
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I got the Heat Pad Ready option (~$100) where the trailer is prewired for customer supplied Heat Pads. I plan on doing my own insulation. I did this for two reasons, I want to know where everything is under the trailer in case it needs repair in the future. Second, I plan on using pink foam board in conjunction with expanding foam insulation, so it will be more sectional if needed to be removed for repairs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
5. They give two choices for tables. For a couple, what's best?
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For the 21NE with it's large U-shaped dinette. I'd recommend the Springfield pedestal. In other trailers with smaller dinettes the Lagun is probably the way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
Just so you folks know, base price for a 21NE in 2021 is $28,995.
Thanks for any help!
Frank
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08-22-2020, 11:16 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
Thanks Steve, TDF, and padlin.
I can manage installing a solar port for 10 bucks. Always have done my own house and hot rod wiring. Current hot rod I'm carpeting today will be sold to help pay for this trailer. Not sure when I'll be done, but so far, so good. Also, we'll be home for speels during the summer babysitting our granddaughter.
Some of the options are nuts, i.e., things I had in other trailers that were included in the base price. With $29,175 for a base price, right now looks like we'll add maybe 3 grand, maybe a tad more. Hot rod should sell for about that, maybe a bit less.
Thanks again folks.
Frank
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If you are able to limit yourself to $3000 in options, you have far more self control than I do !
Many members of this forum have posted their build sheets / list of options purchased and I am constantly amazed at the inventive / creative ways people find to spend their hard earned money .
Someone smarter than me recently posted about the affects of herd mentality when ordering options . It was a very thoughtful ,honest and astute observation
I think sometimes we all get caught up in the dream
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08-22-2020, 11:41 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ravena, New York
Trailer: Getting a 21NE early next year
Posts: 291
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Steve, I am trying to keep the cost low because we want to buy with cash (my Scottish heritage...). Should be able to do that in 2021. I am not looking at others' build sheets, just looking for advice. Thanks.
Frank
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08-22-2020, 12:05 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Trailer: 2022 21C, our second Escape
Posts: 324
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We are minimalist campers and bought one of the inventory models this year. It came solar-ready with an inverter that I can’t see us ever using. For a morning cup of tea and coffee we simply use the propane stove.
We have the most basic table mount (not Springstead or Lagun, not sure what they call the base option) and it’s fine for two adults because we won’t be converting the dinette to a bed. The tabletop slides from side to side to make it easier to get in and out of the seats, and we’re happy with it.
The only things we added to our pre-built inventory model were four captain’s reading lamps (would have been more tricky to add post-factory) and the spray foam insulation. We plan to use the camper at least three seasons and also others suggested that it helps with sound insulation too. All I can say is that we camped at a notoriously loud campground and were not bothered by sound at all. I get super-bugged by noisy camping neighbors and the insulated Escape for sure keeps a lot of noise out. I can’t compare a non-insulated one having never been in one. I mentioned to my husband, who like you is very handy/mechanical, that people say it makes maintenance harder, and he wasn’t worried about that.
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08-22-2020, 06:47 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Victoria, Texas
Trailer: 21C Jan. 15, 2021
Posts: 358
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I have ordered a 21c. For a dec delivery. Thank you for this info. We did not get the insulated underneath. Mainly because it is ugly. Looks like an afterthought. I will do the exposed lines.
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08-22-2020, 08:55 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_a
Steve, I am trying to keep the cost low because we want to buy with cash (my Scottish heritage...). Should be able to do that in 2021. I am not looking at others' build sheets, just looking for advice. Thanks.
Frank
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Also have that gene; used to call my dad "Cheapy". Remodeld in 2000 and still wish we had spent more on things that are too expensive now to change. While certainly less with a trailer the fact is this mfg. lets you do things most others don't. Indulge yourselves with things that are more expensive and a hassle to do later: quality vinyl floor, quality custom fabrics YOU love, same with formica. Skip the fancy wheels and get them when you replace tires. ASK for a better coupler.
__________________
"We gotta get as far away as we can!"
- Russell Casse, Independence Day
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08-22-2020, 09:14 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue
. ASK for a better coupler.
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I’ll second that !! Had mine changed out on Monday— HUGE IMPROVEMENT
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08-22-2020, 09:31 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 8,253
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Hi Frank
It’s been a while since we camped next to you and your lovely bride when you had the park liner at Alf’s Niagara wine Escape rally. All I can say is I feel the trailer mounted solar panel and dual 6 volt batteries have worked real well for us on both of our Escapes. The other things you asked about we’ve not had. Best of luck in specifying and taking delivery on your new trailer. I still have the High Standard Olympic in .22 short only.
Iowa Dave
__________________
Ain’t no trouble jacking a double Burma Shave
Dave
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08-22-2020, 10:12 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21
Posts: 699
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I thought I would weigh in with my take on the foam insulation. We camp in high country in the shoulder seasons and so have had many chances to evaluate the effectiveness of the foam in temperatures around freezing since we bought our Escape 21 in 2015.. We compare it to the insulation we had in the floor of our Nash, and find it just as effective. It probably helps reduce the cycle time of the furnace somewhat. And it does make the trailer quieter.
I haven't heard of the paint and foam detaching from the frame or other parts of the trailer. Maybe it can, but I doubt it is inevitable. In the 5 years we have owned our Escape there were no such issues and I haven't read of others with this problem. I think that the opposite may be true, because the foam protects the gray and water tanks, frame, axle, plumbing, etc. from road damage (rocks) and corrosion.
The interference with maintenance tasks might come up in the future, but after watching ETI staff install the axle raising kit (which included cutting away the foam and then reapplying after) I don't think it is as daunting as many people make out. I guess if you plan to do all sorts of mods on the trailer from underneath, then it would be too much of a pain to have the foam.
Reece talked to us about his cross country drive as he did warranty plumbing repairs on new Escape 21's, and wished he had the foam insulation when traveling in the hot climates enroute. He said that a few times the fresh water got so hot he couldn't take a shower due to heat reflected up from the parking pad.
Here is a quote about heat insulation from another thread by PERRY:
"On hot days, on a black tar pad, with sun warming up the area around our Scamp/Casita, we found the floor would heat up the camper even more. Once we went to insulated floors that phenomenon ended. We want insulation for warm weather as much as cold!:
We normally only have to contend with cold weather.
I would check out previous threads on this topic and pay particular attention to actual experience with the foam. There isn't consensus on this topic, but I would check out the other threads. I just searched the forum. Here are two of the threads on foam.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...val-13478.html
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ion-11684.html
Bob K
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