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Old 07-04-2022, 07:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marant View Post
Do not know if the new package will have the same cost, but, if it does, should I reconsider my decision due to the new components?

Given that the lithium system with an inverter is about $2500 we will just stay with two 6v batteries and one panel. We have that on our 17B and it has worked well for us for 3 years.
I keep thinking about ETI’s $2500 package price tag. This includes 2 Battleborn battlers ($900 each), and a 1500W Inverter (including transfer switch & outlets). Does this package also include a Battery Voltage Monitor?.

If ETI is moving to less expensive batteries in the fall, the package price needs to reflect that new pricing.

If you did your own installation, you can purchase a SOK 100ah 12V battery for $570. These batteries compare favorably to Battleborn in quality and warranty (7 vs 10 years), but costover $300 less. They have a smaller footprint to boot.

I paid $180 for my Victron 712 BVM (Bluetooth capable) Will Prowse thinks this product is way overpriced and reviews an alternative product that costs $32. http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=E6O76Okmt08

You don’t necessarily need a DC-DC charger. Battleborn does not recommend it.

How much have you used the inverter in your 17’ trailer? This is one of those things you can hold off and purchase at a later date.

The hourly price for RV repair work in California is $120. You’ll probably be paying less for labor outside of California. I seriously doubt the lithium & BVM install took more than 1.5 hours to complete. The RV Service guy I used does very clean, high quality work. He’s installed a lot of solar & lithium systems and works very quickly. Worth your time to seek out quality installer.

Unless you plan to program your batteries, you do not need a Victron solar controller. You can get a quality 40 Amp MTTP for several hundred dollars less than a Victron.

This begs the question of wanting a ready-to-go trailer. Many buyers want to go camping immediately & are willing to pay a premium price for having the manufacturer install everything.
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Old 07-05-2022, 09:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane P. View Post
I keep thinking about ETI’s $2500 package price tag. This includes 2 Battleborn battlers ($900 each), and a 1500W Inverter (including transfer switch & outlets). Does this package also include a Battery Voltage Monitor?.

If ETI is moving to less expensive batteries in the fall, the package price needs to reflect that new pricing.

If you did your own installation, you can purchase a SOK 100ah 12V battery for $570. These batteries compare favorably to Battleborn in quality and warranty (7 vs 10 years), but costover $300 less. They have a smaller footprint to boot.

I paid $180 for my Victron 712 BVM (Bluetooth capable) Will Prowse thinks this product is way overpriced and reviews an alternative product that costs $32. http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=E6O76Okmt08

You don’t necessarily need a DC-DC charger. Battleborn does not recommend it.

How much have you used the inverter in your 17’ trailer? This is one of those things you can hold off and purchase at a later date.

The hourly price for RV repair work in California is $120. You’ll probably be paying less for labor outside of California. I seriously doubt the lithium & BVM install took more than 1.5 hours to complete. The RV Service guy I used does very clean, high quality work. He’s installed a lot of solar & lithium systems and works very quickly. Worth your time to seek out quality installer.

Unless you plan to program your batteries, you do not need a Victron solar controller. You can get a quality 40 Amp MTTP for several hundred dollars less than a Victron.

This begs the question of wanting a ready-to-go trailer. Many buyers want to go camping immediately & are willing to pay a premium price for having the manufacturer install everything.
One reason for adding a DC to DC converter that I didn't originally consider - melting of pin 4 (+12V) in my rubber 7 pin trailer connector. I like the plastic/rubber connector since it fits the Ford receptacle better than the original connector, but evidently it doesn't like 30 amps for long periods of time.

I added a 30 amp Anderson connector to the truck & trailer to parallel pin 4.
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Old 07-05-2022, 02:39 PM   #23
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fyi a Andersen PP30 is rated at 30 amps and even smaller... the PP45 is rated at 45 amps and is the same physical size (one takes 12-14 gauge, the other 10). now, if you wanted to use AWG8 or a larger gauge, then you have to use those bigger connectors. I'm guessing what you have there is a SB50, rated for 50 amps, and suitable for up to AWG 6 wire.
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Old 07-05-2022, 02:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
...
I'm guessing what you have there is a SB50, rated for 50 amps, and suitable for up to AWG 6 wire.
I second that - it looks like the SB50. Note: after a year or two exposed to the elements it can become difficult to separate from the mating plug. Consider a shot of WD40 (or something better) on occasions.
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Old 07-05-2022, 02:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
One reason for adding a DC to DC converter that I didn't originally consider - melting of pin 4 (+12V) in my rubber 7 pin trailer connector. I like the plastic/rubber connector since it fits the Ford receptacle better than the original connector, but evidently it doesn't like 30 amps for long periods of time.
...
You need some of that "current limiting" stuff - AKA thin, cheap wire - that I have in my Toyota. Great voltage dropping potential at no extra cost.
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:04 PM   #26
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You are correct - my mind was on vacation when I said 30 amps. It is a 50 amp SB50.
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:22 AM   #27
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Lithium package

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane P. View Post
Regarding recovery costs, you should consider what will enhance your camping experience. This trailer is for your own enjoyment.

Just finished viewing the video. The new lithium battery package will be available in the fall. Are it’s components listed on the build sheet yet? I’m most interested in the lithium battery they will be offering. I’m guessing/hoping it will be the SOK.

If you buy a lithium battery, you’ll need a Battery Voltage Monitor (BVM). Period.

Looks like ETI will be pairing the battery with Victron 710 or 720 BVM. Victron is the gold standard. The 720 includes Bluetooth, and worth the extra cost.

I’m particularly curious about the new converter.

Marant, what is your camping style? If the majority of your trips will be at camp grounds with electrical hookups, you won’t need a lithium battery. You definitely won’t need an inverter.

On the other hand, if you plan to mostly dry camp, and think you’ll be boon docking for more than a week at a time, and cannot bring along a backup generator, seriously consider getting a lithium battery. In the long run, lithium will save money over lead acid batteries, and is far more efficient. It’s a cleaner technology.

Bottom line:
  • go lithium
  • put together your own lithium and solar package
  • SOK lithium batteries will give you the most bang 4 your bucks
  • start with one 100ah battery
  • add a second battery if you decide to get an inverter
  • purchase a backup generator

I highly recommend you include several 12V outlets in your build sheet. Have them installed in strategic locations throughout the cabin. This will definitely help with future resale.

Installing a lithium battery (and BVM) after you get your trailer will give you an opportunity to see if you’re dry camping enough to justify the additional cost. Plus, you’ll be able to customize the system to your needs.

If you want an inverter over 1500w, you’ll need two 100ah lithium batteries. But you do not have to buy an inverter right away, and can hold off getting a second lithium until you do.
So my build is starting in a week or 2. I was assured I was getting the new batteries and Victron components( including shunt) by Linda. I was confused what Samuel was stating this fall to be in production? Let’s hope they don’t opt out of offering this to me.
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Old 07-06-2022, 04:27 PM   #28
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Two ways to look at every option:

1. They will be a gift to the next owner, you won’t get the money back when you resell.

2. Like any RV, the value comes from using it.
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Old 07-07-2022, 10:09 AM   #29
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Question I wonder ...

A late thought about ETI's announced 'next gen' lithium upgrades ....

I wonder if they've found a way, in spite of regulatory constraints or whatever (doesn't really matter) has driven this in the past, to eliminate the IMO unnecessary and space-consuming 'secondary containment / battery box' in conjunction with LiFePO4 storage?

Hmmmm .... one can only hope
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Old 07-07-2022, 10:28 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centex View Post
A late thought about ETI's announced 'next gen' lithium upgrades ....

I wonder if they've found a way, in spite of regulatory constraints or whatever (doesn't really matter) has driven this in the past, to eliminate the IMO unnecessary and space-consuming 'secondary containment / battery box' in conjunction with LiFePO4 storage?

Hmmmm .... one can only hope
I think the laws in Canada will have to change to drop that requirement. Changing law takes time and money, and there’s probably not much support for it outside of our desire.
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Old 07-07-2022, 10:35 AM   #31
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We are finishing up the build sheet on our 21C right now and I asked this very question to ETI. Their response was "As a Canadian manufacturer, we are required to install all batteries, even the lithium ones, in a sealed box vented to the outside. As far as I know it is not a rule for the US manufacturers."

As for the battery box itself, ETI said "The inside dimensions are approximately 14 1/2"l x 10 1/2"w x 11 1/2"h"

The problem with this battery box is that a lot of the less-expensive Lithium batter options are too large to fit, so you may or may not want to take that into consideration when sourcing your Lithium batteries. In most of the reviews I've seen the reviewer notes little difference between Chins, AmperTime, Redodo, etc. and they seem to test and work similarly.

Besides size, take time as others have mentioned to ensure you can draw enough power from the batter you select. Many of the Lithium models I've seen come in standard and "pro" versions. You definitely want a version that supports your anticipated load requirements. The following link (amazon) is to a Redodo battery, but the important point is if you look carefully they offer THREE versions. If you select the "Plus" version one of the pictures there shows you the difference between the base battery and the Plus version. Note that none of these fits into the standard ETI battery box.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09DY2QKRQ...2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1
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Old 07-07-2022, 11:19 AM   #32
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That is an expensive battery set up, IMHO. For a recreational vehicle, maybe if it was a for full time, but part time use, seems expensive.
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Old 07-07-2022, 12:21 PM   #33
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Build sheet signed and filed. Went with two 6v and one panel.
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Old 07-07-2022, 12:23 PM   #34
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Build sheet signed and filed. Went with two 6v and one panel.
I have been very happy with that set up../..
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Old 07-07-2022, 03:30 PM   #35
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I just purchased an AmpereTime 300ah battery. I’ll be removing the battery box and plugging the holes, then coming up with a new mount/tray to install the lithium battery in roughly the stock location.

There’s lots of ways to do the DC batteries, after mulling it over for a couple years and then seeing the AmpereTime batteries on sale…. That’s how I’m doing it.
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Old 07-07-2022, 03:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DT6 View Post
We are finishing up the build sheet on our 21C right now and I asked this very question to ETI. Their response was "As a Canadian manufacturer, we are required to install all batteries, even the lithium ones, in a sealed box vented to the outside. As far as I know it is not a rule for the US manufacturers."

As for the battery box itself, ETI said "The inside dimensions are approximately 14 1/2"l x 10 1/2"w x 11 1/2"h"

The problem with this battery box is that a lot of the less-expensive Lithium batter options are too large to fit, so you may or may not want to take that into consideration when sourcing your Lithium batteries. In most of the reviews I've seen the reviewer notes little difference between Chins, AmperTime, Redodo, etc. and they seem to test and work similarly.

Besides size, take time as others have mentioned to ensure you can draw enough power from the batter you select. Many of the Lithium models I've seen come in standard and "pro" versions. You definitely want a version that supports your anticipated load requirements. The following link (amazon) is to a Redodo battery, but the important point is if you look carefully they offer THREE versions. If you select the "Plus" version one of the pictures there shows you the difference between the base battery and the Plus version. Note that none of these fits into the standard ETI battery box.
If you want to your lithium batteries inside the cabin, you’ll need to do that after you take possession of the trailer. I assume if you live in Canada, you’ll have to leave them where ETI
installs them.

If you live in the USA & you’re planning to relocate these batteries, why not do a complete install when you return home? Put together a spreadsheet of the products you would prefer to purchase and compare against Escape’s. Just a thought…
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Old 07-07-2022, 03:38 PM   #37
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Just curious… What size panel?
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Old 07-07-2022, 03:59 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by splitting_lanes View Post
I just purchased an AmpereTime 300ah battery. I’ll be removing the battery box and plugging the holes, then coming up with a new mount/tray to install the lithium battery in roughly the stock location.

There’s lots of ways to do the DC batteries, after mulling it over for a couple years and then seeing the AmpereTime batteries on sale…. That’s how I’m doing it.
I was just looking at that same battery for our 21C we pickup in Sept. Most of these lesser expensive batteries are 21 inches long or so, which won't fit in the ETI battery box. I've seen a few larger boxes that seem to be referred to as a "double battery box", but I do not see any that are vented (but I don't think that is a US requirement).

I would be curious to see any pics you are willing to take that show how/where you installed it or whatever your solution turns out to be.
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Old 07-07-2022, 04:00 PM   #39
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Standard 190v
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Old 07-07-2022, 07:13 PM   #40
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Quote:
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I was just looking at that same battery for our 21C we pickup in Sept. Most of these lesser expensive batteries are 21 inches long or so, which won't fit in the ETI battery box. I've seen a few larger boxes that seem to be referred to as a "double battery box", but I do not see any that are vented (but I don't think that is a US requirement).

I would be curious to see any pics you are willing to take that show how/where you installed it or whatever your solution turns out to be.
It will be a few weeks before I install it, but I’ll take pictures.

As far as the battery box goes, I can’t see a way to keep it (find a battery that fits correctly), and there’s no reason to keep if for a sealed lithium battery. So, I’m going to remove it and figure out a way mount the new battery.

I bought a battery monitor from aliexpress and a battery load tester so I can validate the capacity of the battery before I install it. I can start a thread and post all the details when I get started on it.
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