New ETI Price Increase = Adios folks

[Sean2a]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I was curious to see how their pricing compared to ETIs. Base price for their "A" model, no bathroom, is $34,900 CDN. Base price for an Escape 17A is $33,995, a $1,000 less and 3' longer.

Interestingly, I was curious about how the price stacks up so I took an estimate I got from Scamp last summer and when you add in several of the options to the 16' deluxe (wood cabinet) scamp that come standard on the 17b escape, the scamp comes out a tad bit MORE than even escape with it's recent price increase. This isn't even factoring in other items ETI includes not offered by Scamp such as dual glaze windows and extra insulation. I'd say the extra front side windows 17B has over the Scamp, but Scamp I believe provides a kitchen and bath window standard, so that's a wash.

At any rate, I imagine that this is due to Scamp building in more flexibility in their cost to account for these cost increases. Assuming prices from competitors don't increase this year, I believe ETI if ETI raises another 10% or so in 2022, they will be close to a point where they can no longer be seen as the "best value" and instead, "get what you pay for".

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Sean2a

they will be close to a point where they can no longer be seen as the "best value" and instead, "get what you pay for".

Of course another part to comparing trailers is the "get what you pay for."

Is Scamp still using OSB as a floor?

Ron

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Is Scamp still using OSB as a floor?

Ron

Probably, but the 34 year old OSB floor in my Scamp is perfect. I've seen plenty of all plywood floors in newer trailers totally rot out. There ARE better materials for flooring, but few trailer manufacturers use them. SO, it's up to owners to maintain their trailers no matter what the flooring type.

[Ron in BC]

I just noticed an ad for a large local dealer of various brands of stickies. It's using a price lock-in as a selling feature. It states that prices have risen during Covid and more increases are coming. So it's not just ETI raising prices now and in the future.

Ron

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Reimj

Yeah that stinks, but on a positive note, at least you know what you'll be paying.

I'm afraid of what prices are going to be by October of 2023. (I'm also selfishly hoping a lot of people cancel and our build slot gets moved way up).

Ditto. We're scheduled for Oct23, too.

[Pekka]

We as well have cancelled our trailer after waiting about a year. I just don’t care for how they conduct business . After the first increase we shaved many options to stay within our budget the second increase within a year pushed us over. ETI is saying the units are selling more than original cost ( which doesn’t include taxes) so they want that profit for themselves. We received an email for the final build sheet hours after the deadline. Hopefully we can find a reasonable used unit once Covid is no longer an issue.
Best of luck for those waiting..

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Pekka

We as well have cancelled our trailer after waiting about a year. I just don’t care for how they conduct business .

Guess you won't be buying groceries either.

[mcdonner]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

I got one word for you and it ain’t “plastics” on “why Escape”? BEDBUGS!

If you stack up all of your receipts from rentals, plane tickets, lodging etc. you’ll have a stack big enough to start a little campfire using the sticks you brought in your carry-on bag.
Today, your ten year old Escape will sell for as much or more than you paid for it. Happens every day and takes less time than you can shake a stick at. Gotta pick up the stick. Put it in your carry on, then get it back out and take the time to shake it.

However, don’t hesitate to cancel and go in a different direction. More sites for me.

My Brother Eric and I both have recreation resource development degrees with guidance from DeWitt Nelson. We studied Clayne Jensen recreation philosophy. Both men were giants in the field. Been chasing the teachings for over 50 years. I relish every minute in the out-of-doors, even when it’s windy, raining and cold. Makes me feel alive. YMMV
Iowa Dave

Hey Dave, that pic reminds me of my last rally with you before Covid hit. Lots of standing water after that storm. Hope all is well.

[chuckwhanson]

Originally Posted by Chamberman

My wife and I had the same discussion last night. We can stay at a lot of cabins and AirBNB's in some fantastic locations for the pricing that this trailer is getting up to. This is a lot of what our vacations have consisted of up until now and that's what we'll be continuing to do.

My wife is retiring at the end of this school year so I had planned a month long sabbatical from work this coming Sept to go pick up the 5.0 and take an extended vacation in the new trailer, but now we'll plan a month long tour through New Mexico, Colorado & Utah all while staying at cabins and AirBNB's.

Good luck to you with your decision, ours is already made!

Fair points, but keep in mind that hotel, B&B, and VRBO prices will continue to increase but the cost of your Escape is a one-time up front cost. Yes, there is storage, upkeep, and maintenance, but those costs are generally modest. And the Escape will last decades if you take care of it. If you calculate an average cost of $300 per night for a hotel over the next 15 years ($200 now, $400 in 15 years, $300 average??), and book a hotel just 14 nights per year, that's $300 x 14 x 15 = $63,000.

I realize these are all projections and things can change, but the point is you can't compare hotels costs today with the cost of an Escape today. You need to project hotel costs out into the future.

[kavm]

@Rossue was totally on point. Buying grocery vs. buying camper are two very different category of purchases. Sometimes people have to cancel their recreational spending to be able to pay for the groceries.

It is totally OK for ETI to raise the prices due to the increase in their costs or to raise their profit. It is also OK for potential buyers to walk off .

[kavm]

This thread prompted me to look at how much the prices have increased. So, I priced the 5.0 camper we bought less than a year ago (May, 2021) as well as a 2022 5.0 with the same set of options (leaving out some of the customization costs from the comparison). The price for our camper was $40,500 (leaving out the customization costs) and the 2022 camper with the same set of options now prices at $48,150 - an increase of about $8,000.

It is a large enough price increase to change the buying decision of some of the prospective buyers.

[Donna D.]

Calm down everyone and I've deleted a couple of posts. No name calling!

[WillyB]

We are on the edge. At $42,000, the affordable stretch $35,000 Escape that drew us in has now turned from conversations of fun & adventure camping to conversations about other ways to enjoy fun & adventure.

No matter how you slice it 20% is still 20%.

Fortunately we don't have to sign our build sheet until June as our newest concern is what impact the Russia/Ukraine saga will have on the economy.

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by mcdonner

Hey Dave, that pic reminds me of my last rally with you before Covid hit. Lots of standing water after that storm. Hope all is well.

That picture was Fudge Brownie Lake. Fishing was poor but the waves and rip currents weren’t too bad. I had the scouts out one time in the spring. It rained a lot but we were camped on a ridge so no danger. One of the boys approached me about breaking camp and going home.
My only comment. “Not an option.”
He eventually made Eagle Scout but got drummed out of the Marines after about a year. Didn’t have what it took I guess.
My observation “I never melted a Boy Scout.”
Iowa Dave

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by chuckwhanson

Fair points, but keep in mind that hotel, B&B, and VRBO prices will continue to increase but the cost of your Escape is a one-time up front cost. Yes, there is storage, upkeep, and maintenance, but those costs are generally modest. And the Escape will last decades if you take care of it. If you calculate an average cost of $300 per night for a hotel over the next 15 years ($200 now, $400 in 15 years, $300 average??), and book a hotel just 14 nights per year, that's $300 x 14 x 15 = $63,000.

I realize these are all projections and things can change, but the point is you can't compare hotels costs today with the cost of an Escape today. You need to project hotel costs out into the future.

While I appreciate that input the cost of a trailer is not that simple. Most people will finance the bulk of this trailer purchase and current rates are 5% on a 15yr loan. With $40k borrowed on a shorter 10yr loan @ 4.99% I get a total cost of $50,880.

Even if your a cash person then you're taking $40k out of your investment account and putting it into this trailer so you're losing that investment value. I've done a miserable job at investing and I've still hit 9% average annually over the last decade on my investments. The trailer as an investment is not likely to appreciate at anywhere near that rate.

Then there's also the fact that I have the option of not taking a trip or taking a shorter trip that year if work, health or family requires it. So the cost for that option is nil for that year where the trailer costs are still mostly present whether you can use it or not.

I should also mention the added costs of an adequate tow vehicle for most of these trailers. Many people will buy a heavier duty and more expensive vehicle based on what they're towing than they would've otherwise purchased without it.

Either way, the trailer is an altogether different experience. I understand that. I owned a 3/4 ton truck and a large cab-over truck camper back in the 80's and we camped out of it quite a bit and we've camped with friends more recently in their camper a few times. It just comes down to a cost vs reward and for us with me 5 yrs from retirement and my wife leaving the workforce this year the amount of money for this trailer was getting worrisome to me. I'd rather keep the sum of cash we had saved up for a large down payment and continue the travels we've enjoyed up to this point.

BTW, Our travels now are a mixture of park stays, which means screened shelters and occasional park cabins as we gave up tents many years ago. Also as mentioned we spend about half of our time in select Airbnb locations. As the OP I mentioned in post #18 what I think about hotels, but I keep seeing them brought up. As an individual family, meaning no friends along, we haven't stayed at an AirBNB location that cost us more than $150/night. Of course the cost is all relative to where you're staying.

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by Pekka

We as well have cancelled our trailer after waiting about a year. I just don’t care for how they conduct business . After the first increase we shaved many options to stay within our budget the second increase within a year pushed us over. ETI is saying the units are selling more than original cost ( which doesn’t include taxes) so they want that profit for themselves. We received an email for the final build sheet hours after the deadline. Hopefully we can find a reasonable used unit once Covid is no longer an issue.
Best of luck for those waiting..

That sucks. We were still 6 weeks or so from being contacted to begin our build sheet. I told my wife I would've been extremely angry if I was waiting for a few questions to be answered on my build sheet and they sent me the link to that video telling me about the new price increase, effective that day.

I would imagine there were a number of customers that were within a week of submitting their build sheets that were broadsided by this increase. I'm really shocked that ETI did it that way. A staggered pricing increase over the next few months would've seemed more appropriate but I guess when the market is strong you can afford to walk tall and carry a big stick with your pricing and say to hell with anyone that doesn't like it.

[sofmerc]

Originally Posted by Chamberman

While I appreciate that input the cost of a trailer is not that simple. Most people will finance the bulk of this trailer purchase and current rates are 5% on a 15yr loan. With $40k borrowed on a shorter 10yr loan @ 4.99% I get a total cost of $50,880.

Even if your a cash person then you're taking $40k out of your investment account and putting it into this trailer so you're losing that investment value. I've done a miserable job at investing and I've still hit 9% average annually over the last decade on my investments. The trailer as an investment is not likely to appreciate at anywhere near that rate.

Then there's also the fact that I have the option of not taking a trip or taking a shorter trip that year if work, health or family requires it. So the cost for that option is nil for that year where the trailer costs are still mostly present whether you can use it or not.

I should also mention the added costs of an adequate tow vehicle for most of these trailers. Many people will buy a heavier duty and more expensive vehicle based on what they're towing than they would've otherwise purchased without it.

Either way, the trailer is an altogether different experience. I understand that. I owned a 3/4 ton truck and a large cab-over truck camper back in the 80's and we camped out of it quite a bit and we've camped with friends more recently in their camper a few times. It just comes down to a cost vs reward and for us with me 5 yrs from retirement and my wife leaving the workforce this year the amount of money for this trailer was getting worrisome to me. I'd rather keep the sum of cash we had saved up for a large down payment and continue the travels we've enjoyed up to this point.

BTW, Our travels now are a mixture of park stays, which means screened shelters and occasional park cabins as we gave up tents many years ago. Also as mentioned we spend about half of our time in select Airbnb locations. As the OP I mentioned in post #18 what I think about hotels, but I keep seeing them brought up. As an individual family, meaning no friends along, we haven't stayed at an AirBNB location that cost us more than $150/night. Of course the cost is all relative to where you're staying.

From a purely investment point of view... These purchases are like boats, they just don't make sense. There is no justification for them other than having fun...Is it worth it to you? Each person has to decide based on their financial situation and how much they will use and enjoy it... Some purchases are more important than the investment numbers... I Have always had boats, never a camper..... New to me. I never thought of my boats from an investment point of view... They have no justification financially...But what toys do?

[hugh]

Originally Posted by Chamberman

That sucks. We were still 6 weeks or so from being contacted to begin our build sheet. I told my wife I would've been extremely angry if I was waiting for a few questions to be answered on my build sheet and they sent me the link to that video telling me about the new price increase, effective that day.

I would imagine there were a number of customers that were within a week of submitting their build sheets that were broadsided by this increase. I'm really shocked that ETI did it that way. A staggered pricing increase over the next few months would've seemed more appropriate but I guess when the market is strong you can afford to walk tall and carry a big stick with your pricing and say to hell with anyone that doesn't like it.

Yeah, agreed, that does suck. I'm almost certain I would have cancelled in that situation. As it was, we got extremely lucky. After the delivery price increase, I had a gut feel that another price increase was imminent. That motivated me to get my build sheet submitted, and by sheer luck, I submitted less than an hour before the deadline (Had no idea there was a deadline when I submitted of course). I wouldn't be surprised if we were the last customers to get the older pricing.

[sofmerc]

Originally Posted by hugh

Yeah, agreed, that does suck. I'm almost certain I would have cancelled in that situation. As it was, we got extremely lucky. After the delivery price increase, I had a gut feel that another price increase was imminent. That motivated me to get my build sheet submitted, and by sheer luck, I submitted less than an hour before the deadline (Had no idea there was a deadline when I submitted of course). I wouldn't be surprised if we were the last customers to get the older pricing.

Wow, good move!

[rbryan4]

For what it's worth, if I were buying a new trailer today, I'm not sure an Escape would be my choice. It's not just the price difference (which is massive compared to what we paid in 2015) but it's also the change in ownership and the many other changes resulting from that.

Just as an illustration, a new 19 equipped almost identically to mine would currently cost $41,300 USD. We paid $28,300 USD in 2015. That's a 46% increase.

For comparison, my new F150, equipped virtually identically to the one I bought in 2015 to tow my Escape, had an MSRP difference of 11%.

No doubt though that they still produce a great trailer. Inflation is a factor, and Covid and everything else, but I'm not at all certain that it's a 46% factor.