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Old 06-10-2021, 12:42 AM   #1
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No 2x6V lithium on 17B

Opted for the 2x6V lithium full package ($3660) on 17B, available on the option sheet, but was told only one 12V is possible. No room on the rear bumper unless they are 2 Lead Acid 6V! ??. Anyone ran into this before? What to do?
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:14 AM   #2
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Opted for the 2x6V lithium full package ($3660) on 17B, available on the option sheet, but was told only one 12V is possible. No room on the rear bumper unless they are 2 Lead Acid 6V! ??. Anyone ran into this before? What to do?
I do see that their base options page still lists two lithium but their build/pricing configurator only gives option for one. BTW I'm sure it was two 12V lithium in parallel, not two 6V lithium in series. Nonetheless not sure how much this helps but my guess is that they have determined that the larger lithium batteries inside a battery box doesn't fit with the spare tire without interference with license plate and/or brake lights. I believe ETI uses the GoPower 100AH battery which is larger than the 6V Interstate GC2 lead acid.
With one lithium they can probably offset the spare tire and fit the battery.

The good news is you are probably getting close to comparable usable amp hours with one lithium versus two 6V lead acid if you consider the lead acid shouldn't be drained below 50% DOD. I wonder if ETI would entertain mounting the batteries inside which would be better for lithium anyway.
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File Type: jpg single lithium.JPG (64.1 KB, 7 views)
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:44 AM   #3
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Battleborn offers a 100Ah LifePO4 12V, but in a GC2 form factor. This means they are a direct replacement for the 6V flooded cell batteries used by Escape, so they'll fit the boxes on the 17. Although they are GC2 sized, they are 12V each, so you'd wire them in parallel.

This would give you a potent 200Ah setup. Perhaps go with a standard 12v stock battery, get the boxes, and add the Battleborns yourself? And dare I say, I think the Battleborns are far superior to the GoPower batteries anyway, and will save you money in the process.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...ycle-battery/?
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:46 AM   #4
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As of a couple months ago when I asked about mounting Lithiums inside our new E19, they said they can't for liability reasons. If someone down the road changes the lithiums for flooded cells, they see a big risk. The most they would do is terminate cables inside under the U shaped dinnette, and deliver the batteries in the storage box outside. New owner would then do the final mounting inside.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:51 AM   #5
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Opted for the 2x6V lithium full package ($3660) on 17B, available on the option sheet, but was told only one 12V is possible. No room on the rear bumper unless they are 2 Lead Acid 6V! ??. Anyone ran into this before? What to do?



They have never offered 2x6v lithium. to my knowledge you can still get two 12 volt lithium on rear bumper. Maybe they changed this.I would confirm. First thing i would ask myself do you want your lithiums out side in the first place. If i was you i would get the two 6 volts and see how they work you can always add lithium latter.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:01 AM   #6
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As of a couple months ago when I asked about mounting Lithiums inside our new E19, they said they can't for liability reasons. If someone down the road changes the lithiums for flooded cells, they see a big risk. The most they would do is terminate cables inside under the U shaped dinnette, and deliver the batteries in the storage box outside. New owner would then do the final mounting inside.
My new DIY lithium battery will be inside in the same passenger side dinette compartment as my new inverter/charger/transfer switch. This could be problematic with lead acid. I plan to put a large label on the battery stating that replacement must be lithium or the battery relocated to an area/compartment with no potential ignition sources. Just a precaution if trailer is ever sold. Not sure if this is Escape’s concern and why they can’t do something similar. In my opinion if they really cared about liability they would have made some type of announcement to stop using the exploding Suburban SDS2 cooktop!
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:14 AM   #7
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My new DIY lithium battery will be inside in the same passenger side dinette compartment as my new inverter/charger/transfer switch. This could be problematic with lead acid. I plan to put a large label on the battery stating that replacement must be lithium or the battery relocated to an area/compartment with no potential ignition sources. Just a precaution if trailer is ever sold. Not sure if this is Escape’s concern and why they can’t do something similar. In my opinion if they really cared about liability they would have made some type of announcement to stop using the exploding Suburban SDS2 cooktop!
Agree!
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:30 PM   #8
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I do see that their base options page still lists two lithium but their build/pricing configurator only gives option for one. BTW I'm sure it was two 12V lithium in parallel, not two 6V lithium in series...

...I wonder if ETI would entertain mounting the batteries inside which would be better for lithium anyway.
Your understanding is correct - only one 12V Lithium is available. And they would move the batteries inside, under P/S dinette, but I backtracked on that because that would take up all that space by the outside hatch. May need to rethink that since we are now talking one Li battery, not two.

Question: The dual 6V lead acid is an option for $220. What batteries come standard, if any?
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:36 PM   #9
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Battleborn offers a 100Ah LifePO4 12V, but in a GC2 form factor. This means they are a direct replacement for the 6V flooded cell batteries used by Escape, so they'll fit the boxes on the 17. Although they are GC2 sized, they are 12V each, so you'd wire them in parallel.

This would give you a potent 200Ah setup. Perhaps go with a standard 12v stock battery, get the boxes, and add the Battleborns yourself? And dare I say, I think the Battleborns are far superior to the GoPower batteries anyway, and will save you money in the process.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...ycle-battery/?
If I later switch out the two 6V flooded cell for Lithiums, don't I need to upgrade the charge controller? Not sure what other rewirings/replacememts may be required.
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:54 PM   #10
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If I later switch out the two 6V flooded cell for Lithiums, don't I need to upgrade the charge controller? Not sure what other rewirings/replacememts may be required.
No. The charge controller used by Escape has a profile for lithium batteries. There's no difference in the wiring, except the difference in connections between parallel and series.
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:04 PM   #11
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Question: The dual 6V lead acid is an option for $220. What batteries come standard, if any?
For as long as I remembers, Escape has used Interstate lead-acid batteries. Interstate offers two 6-volt GC2-sized models, and if I recall correctly Escape uses the GC2-ECL-UTL for the dual 6V option. They're made by either Exide or Clarios (the manufacturer formerly known as Johnson Controls Power Solutions).
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:21 PM   #12
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Question: The dual 6V lead acid is an option for $220. What batteries come standard, if any?
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
For as long as I remembers, Escape has used Interstate lead-acid batteries. Interstate offers two 6-volt GC2-sized models, and if I recall correctly Escape uses the GC2-ECL-UTL for the dual 6V option. They're made by either Exide or Clarios (the manufacturer formerly known as Johnson Controls Power Solutions).
I interpreted EscapeVelocity's question to be what comes standard if dual 6V batteries are not selected. I believe the standard battery is just a Group 27 or 29 12V lead acid battery.
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:39 PM   #13
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If I later switch out the two 6V flooded cell for Lithiums, don't I need to upgrade the charge controller? Not sure what other rewirings/replacememts may be required.
Please verify all that with ETI to ensure you have a complete, current, and accurate understanding of all implications. I suggest you don't limit your inquiry to the solar charge controller, ask about any and all differences between FLA and LiFePO4 systems provided by ETI. IMO you're on the right path, just need to go further .

Things are constantly changing but when I drilled-down on this topic with ETI (last updated 01/29/2021) the power center and DC-DC charging provided for FLA batteries were not the same as or optimal for LiFePO4. The appropriately 'lithium optimal' power center and DC-DC charger were different but included in the cost of the lithium battery option even though not explicitly described on any of ETI's web pages at that time.

Certainly you can upgrade any OE FLA-equipped Escape to lithium, and there are a number of ways to go about it; I just don't want you to to be surprised by any of the details that might be involved and having a complete understanding of the 'point-of-beginning' is a big part of that, IMO.

The now dated (and therefore perhaps no longer valid) matrix of differences that I compiled is attached FYI.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:21 PM   #14
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Please verify all that with ETI to ensure you have a complete, current, and accurate understanding of all implications. I suggest you don't limit your inquiry to the solar charge controller, ask about any and all differences between FLA and LiFePO4 systems provided by ETI.

Things are constantly changing but when I asked (last updated 01/29/2021) the power center and DC-DC charging provided for FLA batteries were not the same as or optimal for LiFePO4. The appropriately 'lithium optimal' power center and DC-DC charger were different but included in the cost of the lithium battery option even though not explicitly described on any of ETI's web pages at that time.

Certainly you can upgrade any OE FLA-equipped Escape to lithium, and there are a number of ways to go about it; I just don't want you to to be surprised by any of the details that might be involved and having a complete understanding of the 'point-of-beginning' is a big part of that, IMO.

The now dated (and therefore perhaps no longer valid) matrix of differences is attached FYI.
That's a good point. Best to verify with them exactly what you get when you order x but not y.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:31 PM   #15
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If I later switch out the two 6V flooded cell for Lithiums, don't I need to upgrade the charge controller? Not sure what other rewirings/replacememts may be required.
I believe that Escape uses a different power station for their lithium installations. If you want to use the full capacity of your replacement lithium batteries, you will need to change out the converter section of the WFCO power center provided by Escape if your trailer comes with either a single flooded or pair of 6V flooded batteries. The solar controller can be set for either type of battery.

If you replace the pair of 6V batteries with a pair of 6V sized lithium from Battleborn, your stock WFCO converter will only charge them to about 85% or so if, and that is a big if the WFCO converter can be made to go into the absorption phase. They are well known to always sit at 13.2 - 13.6V, well below what is necessary to fully charge lithium batteries. Still far more usable amp hours storage than you get with the original 6V lead acid.

As Centex says, definitely check with Escape to determine what the current equipment & possibilities are.
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:27 PM   #16
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I interpreted EscapeVelocity's question to be what comes standard if dual 6V batteries are not selected. I believe the standard battery is just a Group 27 or 29 12V lead acid battery.
Ah, likely correct - I saw it as what is the standard (rather than lithium) 6V battery, but that's not what it says.

As with the 6-volt, the standard 12-volt battery has long been an Interstate, presumably currently either 27M-EFB (90 Ah) or the SRM-27 (88 Ah) shown in Alan's (Centex) list. There was a Group 29 battery option which I don't think is offered any more, perhaps because Interstate no longer offers that size. A Group 31 (98 Ah) would make sense, but might not fit the battery box used.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:01 AM   #17
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I believe that Escape uses a different power station for their lithium installations. If you want to use the full capacity of your replacement lithium batteries, you will need to change out the converter section of the WFCO power center provided by Escape if your trailer comes with either a single flooded or pair of 6V flooded batteries.

As Centex says, definitely check with Escape to determine what the current equipment & possibilities are.
I suspect you are right. Have forwarded the question to ETI, but no response yet.

Running out of time since signoff date is today, ok yesterday by now.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:04 AM   #18
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Please verify all that with ETI to ensure you have a complete, current, and accurate understanding of all implications. I suggest you don't limit your inquiry to the solar charge controller, ask about any and all differences between FLA and LiFePO4 systems provided by ETI. IMO you're on the right path, just need to go further .

Things are constantly changing but when I drilled-down on this topic with ETI (last updated 01/29/2021) the power center and DC-DC charging provided for FLA batteries were not the same as or optimal for LiFePO4. The appropriately 'lithium optimal' power center and DC-DC charger were different but included in the cost of the lithium battery option even though not explicitly described on any of ETI's web pages at that time.

Certainly you can upgrade any OE FLA-equipped Escape to lithium, and there are a number of ways to go about it; I just don't want you to to be surprised by any of the details that might be involved and having a complete understanding of the 'point-of-beginning' is a big part of that, IMO.

The now dated (and therefore perhaps no longer valid) matrix
of differences that I compiled is attached FYI.
Agreed. Thanks. Waiting for response from ETI.
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Old 06-11-2021, 04:01 PM   #19
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No response yet from ETI to my battery questions; will update if I do.

Since I am leaning towards Lithium anyway, and having to finalize my build sheet today, I opted for the single 12V Lithium , to be installed inside under the P/S dinette bench.

BuildSheet signoff 6/11/21.
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