Prep for Lithium?

[John in Santa Cruz]

I only know its *easy* on a E21 classic with a U shaped dinette, as its all under the rear dinette seats, both the batteries and the power center.



(note black batteries in the back, my wiring board in the middle, and the brown WFCO power center in the foreground)

I left the AWG 8 wires coming out of the WFCO/PD, and attached my AWG4 to those as close as practical. The solar (~ 25 amps max) uses AWG6, and the Orion DC-DC 18A uses AWG 8.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by GTR guy

Does anyone have an estimate as to how difficult it would be to replace the wires on a 21NE with the battery in the front storage box? Where do they exit the body of the trailer?

where is your WFCO power center? The battery wires go to the battery disconnect switch, and on to the WFCO battery terminals on its fuse board. They probably come up through the floor under the front dinette benches, alongside the 7-pin tow connector cable.

[GTR guy]

I don't know where the power center is on the 21NE. The trailer I saw of this model had two lithium batteries in the front storage compartment. I didn't see where the other components where or where the wires entered the trailer from the batteries.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by GTR guy

I don't know where the power center is on the 21NE. The trailer I saw of this model had two lithium batteries in the front storage compartment. I didn't see where the other components where or where the wires entered the trailer from the batteries.

See photo. If you opt to delete the standard U-shape dinette I bet they shift it to the drivers side seat. Wires most likely come in near the front corner of the DS dinette compartment like the 19.

[GTR guy]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

See photo. If you opt to delete the standard U-shape dinette I bet they shift it to the drivers side seat. Wires most likely come in near the front corner of the DS dinette compartment like the 19.

We will have the u-shaped dinette. I asked our design person where they will put the batteries and components but haven't heard back yet. I am pretty sure that the batteries are on the tongue or in the storage box which is on the tongue.

[John in Santa Cruz]

in Rubicon's picture of the dinettte, you can clearly see the power center behind/below the table, so its just a couple feet from there to the front storage box where the batteries are undoubtedly located.

[CE Vogel]

Installing a single lithium battery in a 'Lithium Ready' trailer should be just fine to get you home. As others have stated, the factory setup is not optimal, but it will work until you add more batteries and demand more power. Last year I converted my ATC trailer to three 100 AH lithium batteries, using the stock 55 amp Progressive Industries LI compatible converter and stock wiring. The 18' of 4 gauge wiring between the converter and batteries does introduce a voltage drop and slows charging, but I have not had an overheating problem. The system charges far faster than when it had lead acid batteries installed.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by CE Vogel

Installing a single lithium battery in a 'Lithium Ready' trailer should be just fine to get you home. As others have stated, the factory setup is not optimal, but it will work until you add more batteries and demand more power. Last year I converted my ATC trailer to three 100 AH lithium batteries, using the stock 55 amp Progressive Industries LI compatible converter and stock wiring. The 18' of 4 gauge wiring between the converter and batteries does introduce a voltage drop and slows charging, but I have not had an overheating problem. The system charges far faster than when it had lead acid batteries installed.

yeah, much the same for my 2 x 12V 206AH batts. thats 412AH combined, about 5200 watt*hours. the two combined are just about the size of hte original dual golf cart battery box (they wouldn't fit inside however).

2 x 206AH batts in the back corner of the U dinette..


12V fuses + bus bars + solar + etc... batts on the left just out of picture.

[John in Santa Cruz]

[GTR guy]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

yeah, much the same for my 2 x 12V 206AH batts. thats 412AH combined, about 5200 watt*hours. the two combined are just about the size of hte original dual golf cart battery box (they wouldn't fit inside however).

2 x 206AH batts in the back corner of the U dinette..


12V fuses + bus bars + solar + etc... batts on the left just out of picture.

Great - thank you!

[Jane P.]

Originally Posted by GTR guy

We will have the u-shaped dinette. I asked our design person where they will put the batteries and components but haven't heard back yet. I am pretty sure that the batteries are on the tongue or in the storage box which is on the tongue.

I am interested in what your design person tells you.

I believe that ESCAPE cannot legally locate lithium batteries in the cabin. That is why YouTube video show the batteries in the front storage boxes. Not sure if you can relocate the battery(ies) before leaving Canada.

You’ll want to locate the battery close to the 7 pin connector cable. It makes sense for the battery to be placed in the front left section of the storage hole under the front dinette. John in Santa Cruz’s pictures show the preferred location.

Wiring coming down from the rooftop panels will be connected to the Solar Controller. ESCAPE does not include a Solar controller with their solar package.
You cannot realistically have solar without that controller.

Wiring between the rooftop solar panel and controller becomes important. You need to consider where you want to locate the controller. You need to determine what gage wire you want to use. I have no idea if ESCAPE uses10 or 8 gage, but you should insist on 8 gage (pure copper) wiring between the roof & your solar controller. 8 gage is more efficient and safer. You should also make sure the wiring will actually reach your solar controller.

You do not need an inverter. An inverter will let you use AC powered goodies. If you get one, you’ll need to decide what size inverter you will want. Most folks want to be able to use things like hair dryers, toasters, coffee makers and laptops off grid. You’ll need at least 2 lithium batteries to power an inverter. Personally, I doubt you will seriously want to power you AC or even your microwave with solar. A 2000W - 2200W pure sine wave inverter will meet your needs. if you only plan to use your laptop, a 1500W may satisfy. Again, what size & model does ESCAPE offer? Will it meet your needs?

You’ll need to make sure that your solar controller is powerful enough for the inverter you choose.

If ESCPE won’t work with you, consider installing the wiring yourself.

The posters to this thread recommend 4 gage wiring between the controller, circuit breaker, fuse box (for DC Appliances), and Inverter (for AC appliances), and batteries. Once again, ESCAPE should be willing to help you with this. 4 gage is safer & more efficient than 6 gage.

Let’s say you want to have someone else wire the trailer, but you know the specific solar panels you want on your roof. Go ahead and let Escape install the solar panels. You can complete the wiring when you return home.

The worse case scenario will be hooking up a inexpensive lead acid battery for the trip home, and doing the solar install at your leisure.

I installed lithium battery solar system on an older trailer. I’m not a DIY person, and used a professional. But I did research the components of my system and found the process very satisfying.

Finally, The charge converter. I inherited my converter, which I expanded for lithium. But technology is advancing, and today’s converters offer many bells & whistles of possible interest to you.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Jane P.

...

I believe that ESCAPE cannot legally locate lithium batteries in the cabin.
...

But it is OK for them to locate a couple of gallons of concentrated sulfuric acid in the cabin? And a device that produces explosive hydrogen gas when working properly?

[John in Santa Cruz]

to be fair (greek chorus: TO BEEE FAIRRRRR!)

the dual golf cart batts under the REAR dinette bench in my 2014 E21 were in a nominally airtight box with a vent hose to an exterior vent.

since LFP vent *nothing* and mine are in steel cases, I didn't attempt to replicate that... The two SOK 12V 206AH batts are just about the size of the OUTSIDE dimensions of hte original battery box. My picture of my batteries tucked back in the corner, thats the curbside REAR corner, with my electronics board under the narrow cross bench of the classic 21 U bench configuration. My original power center is right near there, too. I tried to keep as much of the curbside bench as practical available for stowage of things like paper towels, extra blankets. the streetside rear bench already has the furnace under the first foot, there's some stowage, but the inverter is in the back side of that now... light soft non-messy stuff CAN be put over the inverter, as long as it doesn't restrict airflow, same rule applies to the furnace, so that limits what we put under there, and I don't want *anything* more heavy in the rear... I'm already carrying ~100 lbs of eBikes on a 47 lb 1Up SuperDuty Double, which puts me right at the load limit of the Escape bumper reciever.

since I realized this was lowering my tongue weight to as little as 400 lbs, I've shifted heavy stuff forward, booze, beer, water, beverages go under the front bed and my tongue weight is closer to 450-500 lbs where it should be. and instead of stowing extra stuff on the dinette benches, it goes on the bed for travel, the piles of jackets and such. all the rough stuff like chairs, bbq, propane, tables, rugs, etc etc go in the truck bed. reminds me, i need to fix one of our two upright dining camp chairs before tuesday, we leave Wednesday AM for Strawberry Music Fest!!

[Jane P.]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

John, I’m curious. Whereis your inverter located?

You mentioned that you have a 2000W inverter? Who is the manufacturer? Model?

Re your SOK batteries, how do you like their customer service?

I love the size of 200ah SOK. It’s essentially the same dimension as my 100ah BATTLEBORN, and several hundred dollars less than two 100ah Battleborns. I have absolutely no complaints about my BATTLEBORN, and am particularly pleased with their customer service. But given the price and compact footprint of the SOK batteries, I wish they were available 3 years ago. Another example of solar technology advances.

[GTR guy]

Originally Posted by Jane P.

I love the size of 200ah SOK. It’s essentially the same dimension as my 100ah BATTLEBORN, and several hundred dollars less than two 100ah Battleborns. I have absolutely no complaints about my BATTLEBORN, and am particularly pleased with their customer service. But given the price and compact footprint of the SOK batteries, I wish they were available 3 years ago. Another example of solar technology advances.

I am leaning toward getting an SOK with a bluetooth connection (which I believe will negate the need for an upgraded battery monitor). I see a lot of folks have two 100AH batteries rather than on 200AH battery. Is this just because they purchased batteries before 200AH versions were so readily available? As long as you have confidence in battery construction, I don't see why two would be better than one for a given total AH target.

[splitting_lanes]

Originally Posted by GTR guy

I am leaning toward getting an SOK with a bluetooth connection (which I believe will negate the need for an upgraded battery monitor). I see a lot of folks have two 100AH batteries rather than on 200AH battery. Is this just because they purchased batteries before 200AH versions were so readily available? As long as you have confidence in battery construction, I don't see why two would be better than one for a given total AH target.

A couple things to note: how many amps do you need peak? Two batteries will deliver more peak amps than one.

I’ve been following threads regarding the BT version of the SOK batteries and will not be buying them. They have a different BMS and cannot handle the peak amps that the non BT version can.

For the go power 1500w inverter that is installed, I plan to go with 2x SOK 100ah non-BT batteries. I think it’s a little risky to go with a single 206ah, but that was my initial choice.

[GTR guy]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

A couple things to note: how many amps do you need peak? Two batteries will deliver more peak amps than one.

I’ve been following threads regarding the BT version of the SOK batteries and will not be buying them. They have a different BMS and cannot handle the peak amps that the non BT version can.

For the go power 1500w inverter that is installed, I plan to go with 2x SOK 100ah non-BT batteries. I think it’s a little risky to go with a single 206ah, but that was my initial choice.

Peak amps is an excellent point that I was not aware of. It probably won't really matter for me as when boondocking I will probably just run two fans, water pump, maybe the fridge and some lights.

In the summer, we will need to find more energy to run the AC here in the southeast. In the winter, we will plug in to run a dry heat unit and maybe a dehumidifier. I intend to boondock quite often but my wife will likely not join me and thus electricity use should be very low. I don't remember the last time I used a microwave to cook food.

[John in Santa Cruz]

grr, thought I had a picture of hte inverter. its tucked under the streetside bench and rear bench, near the EMS.

k, here's a pic.



its the Renogy 2000W Pure Sine inverter, currently wired just to that red dedicated outlet

and yeah, re max output current, the BMS in most of these LFP batts is designed for max 100A sustained discharge, 150A peak... and a 2000W inverter can go up to around 165 amps. I got these because I wanted to be able to go a week without sunshine or power, and I think I hit that target.

you asked about SOK, I bought mine from CurrentConnected, their main US distributor, and they were shipped fast. I've had zero issues that required customer service interactions. The BT model wasn't yet a thing, and I already had the smartshunt so no biggie.

[Jane P.]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

A couple things to note: how many amps do you need peak? Two batteries will deliver more peak amps than one.

I’ve been following threads regarding the BT version of the SOK batteries and will not be buying them. They have a different BMS and cannot handle the peak amps that the non BT version can.

For the go power 1500w inverter that is installed, I plan to go with 2x SOK 100ah non-BT batteries. I think it’s a little risky to go with a single 206ah, but that was my initial choice.

If you have room for 2 100ah batteries, go with what makes you most comfortable. I would personally go with the 200 SOK: more compact, plus you save a few bucks over the two 100ah batteries. These batteries are under a 7 year warranty. Assuming you place it in your cabin safe from extreme heat or cold, it should last for 10-20 years. So, unless you do something really stupid, there is little chance of a 200ah SOK failing. In fact, there is much higher chance of your other appliances failing midway through a camping trip.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Jane P.

If you have room for 2 100ah batteries, go with what makes you most comfortable. I would personally go with the 200 SOK: more compact, plus you save a few bucks over the two 100ah batteries. These batteries are under a 7 year warranty. Assuming you place it in your cabin safe from extreme heat or cold, it should last for 10-20 years. So, unless you do something really stupid, there is little chance of a 200ah SOK failing. In fact, there is much higher chance of your other appliances failing midway through a camping trip.

the catch is, a single SOK battery, either 206AH or 100AH, has a recommended maximum sustained load of 100A, this a limitation of the BMS inside the battery and its internal wiring... My 2000W inverter draws 165 amps when its powering my wife's hair dryer, so having two batteries in parallel is a must.

Now, if you're not lpanning on a big inverter, or another high current load like that, then sure, one batt is fine.