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Old 04-29-2016, 09:19 AM   #21
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Sorry to go back to the Texas DMV info. I read on the DMV website that in Texas the safety inspections are required for trailers with a GVWR over 4500 lbs. With the 21' listed at 4500 lbs, it would be just under the limit. From that it looks like only the 5.0TA would need the safety inspection in Texas. It clearly says "over" 4500 lbs.
ETI's website says (or did - I haven't checked it lately) 4500 lbs for the 21, but our Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin says 4600 - which means we have to have the inspection. Every year.
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Old 04-29-2016, 01:03 PM   #22
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ETI's website says (or did - I haven't checked it lately) 4500 lbs for the 21, but our Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin says 4600 - which means we have to have the inspection. Every year.
That 100 lbs sure causes a problem - I wonder if Reese would consider changing that to 4500 lbs, at least for Texas.
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Old 04-29-2016, 01:52 PM   #23
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The 2017 models may be a bit heavier than the 16's and prior with the changes, but probably too early to determine yet.
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Old 04-29-2016, 01:54 PM   #24
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]The 2017 models may be a bit lighter than the 16's and prior with the changes, but probably too early to determine yet.

But I doubt it.
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:15 PM   #25
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I was going to add to my post that JB will come on and say they'll be lighter, but didn't have time.
Since you've seen and talked more with ETI than most I'm curious what information you have in your pocket that would make them lighter. Not able to determine if they will be or won't be, but the awning and door change alone to me seem like they would add weight.
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:18 PM   #26
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I was going to add to my post that JB will come on and say they'll be lighter, but didn't have time.
Since you've seen and talked more with ETI than most I'm curious what information you have in your pocket that would make them lighter. Not able to determine if they will be or won't be, but the awning and door change alone to me seem like they would add weight.
In order to make the body more "squarish" ETI would have to be adding more fiberglass to the whole shell.
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:48 PM   #27
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4600 lbs. was on 2015 certificates and maybe earlier. Don't know if the website's 4500 was ever correct. Maybe someone with a 2014 certificate knows what is on it.
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:53 PM   #28
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So in Texas a 21' needs the inspection every year? Where is it done and who does it? And what is the cost?
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:54 PM   #29
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I was going to add to my post that JB will come on and say they'll be lighter, but didn't have time.
Since you've seen and talked more with ETI than most I'm curious what information you have in your pocket that would make them lighter. Not able to determine if they will be or won't be, but the awning and door change alone to me seem like they would add weight.
You may be wise, but I be a bit quicker.

I really have no insight into the weight differences, and for the most part I bet they are not that different, though in the Texas case, it seems a few pounds can make for some pain it the butt inspections.....strange.

I was thinking the awning would be a fair bit lighter. I think the fabric is lighter, and the arms can't weigh more than the arms and rafters of the previous awning. Just guessing though. Like Charlie alluded to, I imagine there will be a few more pounds of glass and resin due to the squared corners. I don't imagine the door would be a lot different in weight, as the panels will be thinner, but then there is the weight of the aluminum frame to consider. The windows are anyone's guess.

Maybe we should start a contest to see who can best guess the weight difference!
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Old 04-29-2016, 04:55 PM   #30
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My guess would certainly be heavier, but it's only an educated guess.

There's a bit more body as Charlie mentioned,
I would guess the heavier on the awning but that could be looked up in specs if anyone wants to do the search,
the body structure around the awning should be heavier,
the door might be a bit lighter but not enough to make up for the body,
the longer crossmembers and axle tubes (due to the wider frame rail spacing) will be heavier,
larger tanks will be heavier, and
if the "frameless" windows are chosen the larger area of glass will weigh more.
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Old 04-29-2016, 07:07 PM   #31
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So in Texas a 21' needs the inspection every year? Where is it done and who does it? And what is the cost?
Yes. Ours does, at least.

Note: it's the GVWR that is 4600# and I think that's based on the carrying capacity of the tandem axles. Our actual trailer comes in on the low side of 4000# - but that doesn't matter for this.

The safety inspection is done at the same place automobile safety inspections are done - except and unless they won't do it since the VIN isn't stamped on the frame. (Our local vehicle inspector doesn't get it that RV/trailers are different than an auto in this respect. <sigh>) We had ours done at an RV place about 30 miles away. Next time we'll try to find someone closer.
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Old 04-29-2016, 08:51 PM   #32
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I'm in on the guess the weight contest, Jim. Let me guess the prize, Makers 46. Oops here we go.....
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Old 04-29-2016, 09:12 PM   #33
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I'm in on the guess the weight contest, Jim. Let me guess the prize, Makers 46. Oops here we go.....
Greg, that is awesome of you to offer to supply the prize. What a champ you are.
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Old 04-29-2016, 09:44 PM   #34
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Greg, that is awesome of you to offer to supply the prize. What a champ you are.
$33 buck http://www.bevmo.com/makers-46-bourbon--750-ml-.html I'm good with that, but the winner has to claim the prize at the Quartzite gathering in Feb.
Since I'm providing the prize, I guess it will fall to you to organize the pool.
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Old 04-29-2016, 11:52 PM   #35
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Note: it's the GVWR that is 4600# and I think that's based on the carrying capacity of the tandem axles.
This is sort a chicken-or-egg situation. Yes, the GVWR is limited by the axle ratings, but the axle rating (GAWR) can be anything that the trailer designer chooses. In this case, the Torflex #10 suspension can be rated for anything up to 3500 pounds each, and Reace has chosen a lower value to suit the target weight of the trailer. If a higher GVWR is desired, and the frame is up to it, then higher-rated suspensions can be specified.

So, the GAWR determines the GVWR, but the desired GVWR leads to the choice of GAWR.

If there is a such a substantial increase in the weight of the trailer that the GVWR must be significantly higher to maintain payload capacity, then I'm sure Reace will spec higher GAWRs.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:16 AM   #36
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This is sort a chicken-or-egg situation. Yes, the GVWR is limited by the axle ratings, but the axle rating (GAWR) can be anything that the trailer designer chooses. In this case, the Torflex #10 suspension can be rated for anything up to 3500 pounds each, and Reace has chosen a lower value to suit the target weight of the trailer. If a higher GVWR is desired, and the frame is up to it, then higher-rated suspensions can be specified.

So, the GAWR determines the GVWR, but the desired GVWR leads to the choice of GAWR.

If there is a such a substantial increase in the weight of the trailer that the GVWR must be significantly higher to maintain payload capacity, then I'm sure Reace will spec higher GAWRs.
Whatever, Brian. My comment was to distinguish between the GVWR and our 21's actual weight. The regulation is GVWR, and the figure on our Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin is over 4500 lbs; so, my trailer will need a safety inspection every time the license is renewed - at least as long as it's registered in Texas - despite it being quite a bit lighter than the GVWR.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:23 AM   #37
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Whatever, Brian. My comment was to distinguish between the GVWR and our 21's actual weight. The regulation is GVWR, and the figure on our Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin is over 4500 lbs; so, my trailer will need a safety inspection every time the license is renewed - at least as long as it's registered in Texas - despite it being quite a bit lighter than the GVWR.

Yep, Texas uses "gross weight" to determine the registration requirements. So, it's all based on the weight of the trailer plus what it can carry - or GVWR.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:55 AM   #38
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My comment was to distinguish between the GVWR and our 21's actual weight.
Yes, of course. All I'm saying is that the GVWR is not stuck at some specific value because of the axle rating.

Quote:
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The regulation is GVWR, and the figure on our Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin is over 4500 lbs; so, my trailer will need a safety inspection every time the license is renewed - at least as long as it's registered in Texas - despite it being quite a bit lighter than the GVWR.
A vehicle is always no heavier than GVWR, and significantly lighter if you are not using all of the carrying capacity. That's how it is supposed to be.

Setting a lower GVWR than that for which is the vehicle is designed is a valid tactic - it essentially means promising to never operate the vehicle at a weight high enough to justify the more demanding rules. If the DMV won't let you just declare the lower value (4499 pounds in this case) - which would mean that you would be illegal if you packed more stuff and exceeded that weight - then you need Escape to make that placard.

I have no idea if Escape is willing to do this... and then perhaps make different placards for any later owners who want to be able to carry more, or have different rules in their state or province.

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Yep, Texas uses "gross weight" to determine the registration requirements. So, it's all based on the weight of the trailer plus what it can carry - or GVWR.
I think that's how regulation works everywhere. I doubt any regulator cares about the curb weight, because the weight when loaded is what matters in operation of the vehicle.
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:02 AM   #39
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I think what some are saying is that they are not nearly at the 4600 lbs. But of course everyone would simply say that they are lower if they did not have to use GVWR, even if higher. Most people seem to underestimate the weight.
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:51 AM   #40
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I think what some are saying is that they are not nearly at the 4600 lbs. But of course everyone would simply say that they are lower if they did not have to use GVWR, even if higher. Most people seem to underestimate the weight.
That makes sense to me.

I wonder what other trailer owners do in Texas? It is common for trailers with tandem leaf-spring axles to have the GVWR set at the total of the GAWRs, which can be far more than the level to which anyone would reasonably load the trailer. A Bigfoot 25B21RB (another B.C. moulded fiberglass travel trailer) has a base dry weight of 4205 lb, and a GVWR of 7500 lb (because it has the same axle setup as an Escape 5.0TA); does anyone really carry 3295 lb of water and stuff in that trailer... and is some Texas resident saying right now "but my trailer only weighs 4200 pounds, so why do I need an inspection?"
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