Should “bullies” be allowed on the Forum

[cpaharley2008]

Moderating the forum takes up a lot of time, reading the new posts and fixing photos and so on....I'm retired and Escapeless, but once my ship comes in, I'll be doing other things. We are always looking for volunteers.....

[rubicon327]

I have gotten worked up at times (who doesn’t?) but generally just stick to the technical topics and try to help others. Perceiving tone of the written word is a challenge and sometimes leads to misunderstandings. When useful information is posted (like that typically from Brian B-P, Tdf-Texas, Ron in BC, Perryb67, Vermilye, John in Santa Cruz, C&G, oldwave to name several) it memorializes it and helps others in the future that may come across the thread. A lot happens in the background too. I’ve helped many via PM and even a few via texts/calls. I agree that the majority of members are fantastic people. I always liked the saying...in a world where you can be anything, be kind.

[Jim Bennett]

Having been a member since the first day that Jeff Z started this forum I have certainly seen a lot of changes. At first it was a few hundred folks helping each other out all while using a great sense of humour. A very friendly community is what it felt like. I loved working with others, getting advice and helping where I could. I have since then met quite a few hundred of Escape owners. Some have even become good friends.

There is still lots of great help being given to folks in need, this is absolutely wonderful. However, though a very small minority, there are some that do not seem to want advice and opinion unless it is what they really want to hear. Again, a very small percentage but it does make helping out less desirable.

There is also a very small percentage of members that feel they need to correct what others post even when these small details really don't carry much weight.

I have been approached by many dozens of Escape owners over the years, in person and via messaging, with their concerns about fearing to post and receiving unfriendly responses and a negative attitude by some. I do realize that as others have said that trying to get a point across in writing is often not near as nice sounding as what one can portray in person. I am guilty of that at times.

Still, all in all, this is a wonderful forum. A great place to find information and to share things with others. So many truly helpful and nice folks.

If I had only once wish that could be granted, is that folks would be real nice to others at all times, no matter a difference of opinion.

[MVA]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Having been on newsgroups/bulletin boards since the mid-80's I've seen a lot of bullying. I'm also a moderator on another forum

This forum is commercial and owned by RV Life. They make money from this and other forums. It is commonly accepted that a forum makes money in the first three years of a persons joining or buying a product. New members are the heart and blood of these forums. Without their new purchases the forum will cease to exist. We need new members.

I was bullied in one of my first threads. Had I not been on forums before I would have left, but here I am. I'm not perfect, and last winter I posted a response that I wish I could take back, but with the short editing window it was too late. I've yet to revisit that thread.

OTOH, I've seen quit a bit of bullying on this forum, especially to new members. Many of these new members have either rarely been seen since or have quit altogether. New members are who pay the bills for this forum.

When I first started posting I noticed two members who would bully quite often, but now the one has pretty much quit. The other seems to get away carte blanche.

OTOH, it is what it is, and I doubt anything will change. This is an interesting discussion though.

Perry

Perry,

Per your comment, I don't know on what is the business model for RV Life, and how they make money from supporting this and other like trailer forums. Disk space is cheap and the moderators are free, but their is a cost. You alluded that relatively new members are their target customers. What is their business model?

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

...My statement above is based on my perception of what a bully is, as well as some of the “bully accusations” I have seen. IMHO, I have perceived members accusing others of being bullies simply because they feel slighted because other members openly post that they have differing opinions. Bully is an emotionally charged word. Everyone here is entitled to post their opinion on an issue, and everyone is entitled to post a counter opinion, whether or not the OP likes it. Even if stated in a rude manner which occasionally occurs, stating an opposing opinion IS NOT BULLYING! Bullying involves a personal attack (e.g., “You are an idiot.”) or a threat (e.g., “you had better hope we never meet in person.”)...

I think that might be an overly narrow definition of bullying. Webster's Dictionary says it may be "...characterized by overbearing mistreatment and domination of others." Wordnik says bullying can be "Noisily domineering; tending to browbeat others." The US government's page on school-age bullying defines it as "unwanted, aggressive behavior... that involves a real or perceived power imbalance." None of these behaviors include a threat.

As for a 'personal attack,' the poster might not have intended it as such but this is where a certain amount of subjectivity comes into play. If the recipient feels and says that he feels like he's being verbally attacked, this may be an indicator to the poster that the writing style being employed is not conveying his intent; if this happens more than once or twice, the poster really should reevaluate how he writes with the goal of softening perceptions at the receiving end. The poster might be 'coming on too strongly' or saying things that tend to make the other person feel foolish, belittled, or incapable.

Recipients can perceive a 'power imbalance' in various ways, such as when they are female and being answered by a male, or when they are a newbie on the forum being answered by an 'old hand.'

Occasionally there can be (so-called) 'snowflakes' who are easily offended in general. But if one discovers that he's offended an emotionally fragile person, one is still better off apologizing than responding with more of the same.

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

...There is also a very small percentage of members that feel they need to correct what others post even when these small details really don't carry much weight.

Hear, hear! Like, for example, if I were to say (being silly) that you should have used a 'comma' after the word, "post". Who cares, really! It's not important. As someone once said, we shouldn't "major on the minors."

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Mike G

Hear, hear! Like, for example, if I were to say (being silly) that you should have used a 'comma' after the word, "post". Who cares, really! It's not important. As someone once said, we shouldn't "major on the minors."

I would never call you a bully for that comment. Meany Head sounds more fitting. [emoji16]

I will try and do better.......maybe. [emoji6]

[oldwave]

Originally Posted by Mike G

I think that might be an overly narrow definition of bullying. Webster's Dictionary says it may be "...characterized by overbearing mistreatment and domination of others." Wordnik says bullying can be "Noisily domineering; tending to browbeat others." The US government's page on school-age bullying defines it as "unwanted, aggressive behavior... that involves a real or perceived power imbalance." None of these behaviors include a threat.

As for a 'personal attack,' the poster might not have intended it as such but this is where a certain amount of subjectivity comes into play. If the recipient feels and says that he feels like he's being verbally attacked, this may be an indicator to the poster that the writing style being employed is not conveying his intent; if this happens more than once or twice, the poster really should reevaluate how he writes with the goal of softening perceptions at the receiving end. The poster might be 'coming on too strongly' or saying things that tend to make the other person feel foolish, belittled, or incapable.

Recipients can perceive a 'power imbalance' in various ways, such as when they are female and being answered by a male, or when they are a newbie on the forum being answered by an 'old hand.'

Occasionally there can be (so-called) 'snowflakes' who are easily offended in general. But if one discovers that he's offended an emotionally fragile person, one is still better off apologizing than responding with more of the same.

Hmm I’ve been called a not so flattering name for a difference of option . That was not misconstrued

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I have been approached by many dozens of Escape owners over the years, in person and via messaging, with their concerns about fearing to post and receiving unfriendly responses and a negative attitude by some. I do realize that as others have said that trying to get a point across in writing is often not near as nice sounding as what one can portray in person. I am guilty of that at times.

Still, all in all, this is a wonderful forum. A great place to find information and to share things with others. So many truly helpful and nice folks.

I've received lots of very helpful information when I've posted including when the problem was not easy to solve (such as my 15A electrical issues which turned out to be at least four separate problems) and I really appreciate the people who take the time to explain things in detail for some less experienced.

But I also see why some people are fearful about posting. I've developed a thick skin. Responses tend to fit one of three categories. 1) Extremely helpful, asking the right questions, having read the original post, and the poster is knowledgeable and trying to help. 2) The poster hasn't read the original or at least not the followup posts and is repeating what may or may have been useful in an earlier response and c) the poster is being a smart alec. (Which is okay when it is humorous but not so okay when it detracts from the question at hand.) Oh, and that reminds me of 4) the poster derails the post by introducing something irrelevant and controversial.

I have not noted any one person as being always unhelpful. There's nobody whose response I just scroll by (as there often are on some forums.) It's more that the statement that might come across as light banter around the campfire doesn't work in writing the same way.

[Janet H]

Originally Posted by MVA

Perry,

Per your comment, I don't know on what is the business model for RV Life, and how they make money from supporting this and other like trailer forums. Disk space is cheap and the moderators are free, but their is a cost. You alluded that relatively new members are their target customers. What is their business model?

The forum is supported entirely by ad revenue. Frankly regular members don't click on ads much but those who are reading the board and considering purchase or repair often do. There is cost associated with running a forum and even though moderators are volunteers we can always use a hand. We don't read every post but do respond to reports of trouble.

If you see problem posts or receive a problem PM please report it. Rude posters can kill a forum and the site team will take action where there is an issue. That may involve contacting the rude poster via PM with a gentle "knock it off note" or if there is a pattern of this accounts may be restricted. Typically the site team does this via private message rather than in threads although occasionally we'll post a course correction in a thread that has wandered too far afield

[Fox hunt]

i have found this forum really helpful a great number of times. i often have asked questions (some pretty stupid) and gotten good answers that really saved me. Once i had someone be rude to me and kind of aggressive it hurt my feelings but I've been on the forum for many years so one rude person seems OK to me. I've met a lot of really nice people too. I don't agree with everyone sometimes i state my opinion sometimes i keep it to myself. I think we do pretty well considering we all come from a variety of - back grounds, political opinions, and we are geographically very diverse.

[Craiger]

Has there been bullying, yes. I've been called an apologist for escape. And a few other nice things. I basically ignored them, this is not Facebook. They show up for the fight with a BB gun and I show up with an M1A1 120 mm main battle tank. One the moderators are pretty good and have a tendency of jumping in and stopping it early. Two I don't want to alienate people that will eventually wind up eventually helping me. Three I won't get my escape until mid summer next year so I'm silent on certain issues because I don't have a dog in the fight yet. There's my three cents.

[Farmgirl]

I think you all need to cool it. A post is not a letter to a friend, nor a complaint to Escape or Dometic, but it does encourage some folks to disparage common grammatical mistakes. And certain professions (e.g. law, medicine) and certain mental states (e.g. narcissism) thrive on verbal jabs at colleagues. I have found posts on this forum incredibly helpful, pre and post purchase.



So cool it, all of you!

[UncleTim]

I think I have reached a different conclusion. I think by talking about it, it helps everyone to take a moment and reflect on this.

It also provides a person that may be exploring their feelings to take new knowledge into consideration. This is a helpful thread for me and hearing your opinions makes a connection between you and me and helps me consider your thoughts as well. And I am grateful for it.

Love to everyone. Only Love!

[WillyB]

Sorry for being "that guy" but guns are deadly serious. I own many and was raised to never joke about them. In any way shape or form.

I get it. It was meant to be a funny. But it could easily be misunderstood, especially during these times.

Sorry again. BE SAFE!

[oldwave]

Said it once , be nice.

[Ooshkaboo]

Originally Posted by oldwave

Said it once , be nice.

Lefty Frizzel had a big hit way back in the day…

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by WillyB

Sorry for being "that guy" but guns are deadly serious. I own many and was raised to never joke about them. In any way shape or form.

I get it. It was meant to be a funny. But it could easily be misunderstood, especially during these times.

Sorry again. BE SAFE!

In the absence of a moderator's comments firearms are a no-no topic on this site. Lets end any comments about them right now.

Ron

[Northerngirl]

My other post to this thread 'disappeared' the irony doesn't escape me. No pun intended

The problem with bullying behaviour is that it's insidious. Those those that engage in it often don't realize their actions and words are crossing the line from plain ribbing, teasing, scarcasm, satire, etc. Mob mentality is a real thing and I've experienced it here and reported it

Bullies tend to protect one another and when the status quo gets clubby it's tough to turn it around

Based on my private messages, I'm not the only one here who's experienced it

[RangerMan]

That was the first thing I noticed on the Forum.

After maybe 10 posts or so ( maybe less) , the OP's question had started to go away. I am as guilty (maybe more) as anyone else here. I read my post and think 'What has that to do with the OP question'. Answer "not much" but I do it anyway.