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Old 04-14-2020, 03:12 AM   #1
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Want to rent a 21 for a few hours

Basically looking to tow your 21 for an hour somewhere and back. I want to make sure my Tacoma is strong enough before purchasing my own one. I have insurance and will place a deposit along with a rental fee. It would be a huge help for me. Plus I'll give you the referral money. Must be in the PNW (actually currently living in Hood River, OR) and be a newer body style.

Thanks!

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Old 04-14-2020, 06:08 AM   #2
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I know a couple from New Hampshire who ordered an Escape 21, purchased a Tacoma as a tow vehicle, and crossed the Rockies towing it home. They have since towed it all over the USA with no problem.
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
I know a couple from New Hampshire who ordered an Escape 21, purchased a Tacoma as a tow vehicle, and crossed the Rockies towing it home. They have since towed it all over the USA with no problem.
And everyone's idea of "No Problems" is different. I towed my 2017 21 for 9000 miles with a 2016 Tacoma (3.5L engine) and while I loved the truck, traded it in for a 2018 F150 3.5 Ecoboost. The Ford is a much better tow vehicle for the 21. Better mileage, braking, great tow mirrors, and a 36 gallon gas tank.

I do miss the Tacoma, and the Ford has been the shop for two weeks waiting on parts, but I wouldn't go back to towing with the Tacoma.
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:55 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by vtskiguy View Post
Basically looking to tow your 21 for an hour somewhere and back. I want to make sure my Tacoma is strong enough before purchasing my own one. I have insurance and will place a deposit along with a rental fee. It would be a huge help for me. Plus I'll give you the referral money. Must be in the PNW (actually currently living in Hood River, OR) and be a newer body style.

Thanks!

Brian
802-595-9435

Feel free to text

when you said a few hours i thought you had something else in mind.. Your smart going that way. I wanted to do the same on a 19 but was unable to find one.


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Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
And everyone's idea of "No Problems" is different. I towed my 2017 21 for 9000 miles with a 2016 Tacoma (3.5L engine) and while I loved the truck, traded it in for a 2018 F150 3.5 Ecoboost. The Ford is a much better tow vehicle for the 21. Better mileage, braking, great tow mirrors, and a 36 gallon gas tank.

I do miss the Tacoma, and the Ford has been the shop for two weeks waiting on parts, but I wouldn't go back to towing with the Tacoma.

John you experience has helped me. I ended up ordering a 19 because I felt its a better fit for the Tacoma
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Old 04-14-2020, 08:38 AM   #5
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Be aware than an empty Escape weights a lot less than loaded with some stuff in the fresh, grey and black tanks... plus food, camping gear, etc. etc.

and also handles + drives differently.
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Old 04-14-2020, 09:07 AM   #6
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Was supposed to be able to test drive a 21 at ETI after a Rally to be sure my Highlander was going to "meet my expectations", however they did an about face and refused citing the usual insurance line.

After that I decided to trade for a Full-Size SUV and never regretted it.
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:33 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
And everyone's idea of "No Problems" is different. I towed my 2017 21 for 9000 miles with a 2016 Tacoma (3.5L engine) and while I loved the truck, traded it in for a 2018 F150 3.5 Ecoboost. The Ford is a much better tow vehicle for the 21. Better mileage, braking, great tow mirrors, and a 36 gallon gas tank.

I do miss the Tacoma, and the Ford has been the shop for two weeks waiting on parts, but I wouldn't go back to towing with the Tacoma.
I would echo John's assessment. I had a 2013 classic 19' that I towed with a 2016 Tacoma for two years. (Note: the Classic 19' was ~1,000 lbs lighter than the current version.)

I loved the Tacoma. One of my favorite trucks ever. And it towed the '19 just fine ... as long as my trips were within a day or two of home.

But once we started traveling thousands of miles in multi-day single night trips that lasted 3 or more weeks, the Tacoma was too much work to keep it in the right gear for optimal torque. Driving became a chore instead of a pleasure. And the MPG average was down to 10 or 11 MPG.

I traded in my Tacoma on a used 2017 Tundra in anticipation of purchasing a new 5.0 TA. But I had the Tundra for a few trips with the 19' before I sold it. What a difference! Just put it in Tow-Haul mode and sit back and relax. The surprising thing is I actually get better milage with that big 5.7 L V8 than I did with the Tacoma. This is because the Tundra can stay in higher gears for the same conditions resulting in lower engine RPMs.

So while I don't get the great milage of a Ford Ecoboost, (My average is 11.5 MPG) I do have the Toyota reliability and have only had to do regular oil changes with no other repairs in 40,000 miles so far.

Bottom line: think carefully about what kind of camper you will be. Within a day or two of home? Only occasional mountains? the Tacoma will meet your needs. But if you are a long distance explorer like John and I, I would seriously recommend a 1/2 ton truck of your choice, outfitted with factory tow package.
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Old 04-14-2020, 02:55 PM   #8
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"No replacement for displacement" is an axiom from way back and maybe appropriate now, The smaller the engine the harder it has to work, simple physics. I can tow all day and keep the rpms less than 2500 max, mostly less than 2000 rpms.
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Old 04-14-2020, 04:48 PM   #9
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"No replacement for displacement" is an axiom from way back and maybe appropriate now, The smaller the engine the harder it has to work, simple physics. I can tow all day and keep the rpms less than 2500 max, mostly less than 2000 rpms.
Both the Tacoma & the F 150 have 3.5L engines. The big difference it the turbochargers - Tacoma 278HP, 265 ft lbs Torque. F 150 375HP, 470 ft lbs Torque.

Almost all the towing with the F 150 is under 2000 RPM, while that was rare with the Tacoma. Of course, the 10 speed transmission helps...
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Old 04-14-2020, 04:57 PM   #10
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That is surprising for the turbo, I remember when first introduced with the Chrysler products where you pushed the gas pedal down and there was (1) turbo lag and (2) engine screaming as the RPM's shut up high. I assumed you had to keep the rpms higher for the turbo to perform it's function. I assume these are exhaust turbo's on the Fords?
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:48 PM   #11
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I can't rent or loan you my trailer, but I can tell you that I've towed a 2017 Escape 21 with a 2016 Tacoma (6 cylinder, with tow package) for the past couple of years. I've taken it over Sierra and Rocky Mountain passes, and have had no problems. For sure, you know you're towing something when climbing, but it is absolutely NOT a problem. Will a Ford F-250 tow more easily? Of course. But if the question is will your Taco work: yes it will. Your mileage will be overall around 12-14, depending on terrain and how fast you like to drive.
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Old 04-15-2020, 01:39 AM   #12
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That is surprising for the turbo, I remember when first introduced with the Chrysler products where you pushed the gas pedal down and there was (1) turbo lag and (2) engine screaming as the RPM's shut up high. I assumed you had to keep the rpms higher for the turbo to perform it's function. I assume these are exhaust turbo's on the Fords?
Lots of advances in turbo implementation since those early days. Multiple smaller turbos (much less rotating mass per turbo), much more sophisticated vane designs (on both the hot and cold side), variable valve-timing, 'smarter' ECU's driving direct injection, etc. all combine to make modern exhaust-driven turbo-motors behave much more like mechanical-driven superchargers or high-displacement naturally-aspirated of old.

Both TQ and HP come-on at much lower engine RPM, lag is almost imperceptible, Ford's ecoboost seems to be a leader in those respects. Coupled with automatics having more ratios to keep 'em in the sweet range of performance, they're really some killer motors for useable, tractable towing power.

Not saying better or worse than naturally-aspirated cubic inches, just a different approach that seems to work well for lots of folks. The N-A Hemi is a great motor, too, IMO.
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Old 04-15-2020, 06:56 AM   #13
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I can't rent or loan you my trailer, but I can tell you that I've towed a 2017 Escape 21 with a 2016 Tacoma (6 cylinder, with tow package) for the past couple of years. I've taken it over Sierra and Rocky Mountain passes, and have had no problems. For sure, you know you're towing something when climbing, but it is absolutely NOT a problem. Will a Ford F-250 tow more easily? Of course. But if the question is will your Taco work: yes it will. Your mileage will be overall around 12-14, depending on terrain and how fast you like to drive.



off topic ? do you have a weight distribution hitch?
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Old 04-15-2020, 08:38 AM   #14
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Yes, I do. Though I can't tell you that it is essential. I've towed very short distances without, and can't feel a difference. But I've been using it since the beginning, and it's easy to attach, and I just feel more comfortable with it. We've driven in some pretty windy conditions, and have never felt the trailer slogging around.
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:12 AM   #15
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I towed our Rpod (recently replaced with an Escape 21NE) which is about 500# lighter than the 21 with a Honda Ridgeline, very akin to the Tacoma, for a couple of years. Eventually sold it and bought a lightly used Ram 1500 Ecodiesel. What a difference! You'll have no real problems pulling the Escape 21 with your Tacoma (but whoever said 12-14 mpg is dreaming) but if you intend to spend a lot of time towing the Escape, I'd strongly recommend upgrading your TV. I get almost as good mpg with my Ecodiesel towing my trailer as I got with the Ridgeline driving around w/o the trailer,
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:58 AM   #16
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...
You'll have no real problems pulling the Escape 21 with your Tacoma (but whoever said 12-14 mpg is dreaming) ...
It happens. I once got 16 mpg with my Tacoma & E'21 going downhill with a 50 mph tailwind on Wyoming I-80. Once...

Long term average seems to be around 11.5 mpg.

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Old 04-16-2020, 11:10 AM   #17
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Well, my dream has lasted for a bit over two years, then. I average about 12 miles/gallon. If it's flat and I'm in Oregon (for some reason gas is more efficient there!), I see 14 mpg. Yes, if it's a trip with lots of climbing, then that particular trip will probably average 11 mpg.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:55 AM   #18
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My 1 year, 9000 mile towing average at 63MPH peak, mixed interstate & red roads with the Tacoma Off Road Crew Cab was 10.5 MPG. The F 150 over 2 years & 20,000 miles has been 12.5 MPG.

The pre 2016 Tacomas with the 4.0L engine seem to be a better tow vehicle than the newer versions with the 3.5L engine, at least RPM & MPG wise. Again, I loved the Tacoma but in my case it worked too hard to be comfortable.
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:35 PM   #19
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We towed a mostly empty E21 from Dallas TX area back to the west coast by way of Reno with our 2008 Tacoma TRD Off Road 4x4 'access cab' (not crew cab), 4.0L V6 w/ a 6 speed manual, and frankly, went out and bought a bigger truck.

The Tacoma handled the weight OK (it had airbags to help with the rear end squat), had adequate power (had to use 4th gear on grades), but the payload was awful, and the gas tank tiny such that we found ourselves looking for gas at about 120 miles. 2 tanks crossing texas on I40 with headwinds mid winter, we got 9.6 MPG, put that into an 18 gallon tank, and start freaking out at 100 miles.

the biggest issue other than gas tank was the trucks payload. 1200 lbs total including all gear, passengers, and hitch weight/ My truck had a fiberglass shell, -150 lbs.. ok, wife and I are north of 450 lbs combined, E21 has a 450 to 500 lb hitch weight, that leaves a grand total of 150 lbs for cargo in the bed of the truck and back seat my telescope that I bring on many trips weighs about 100 lbs plus lbs of extra gear (ladder, ramps, case of eyepieces, etc).

The Gen 2 4x4 crew cabs were even worse, with a 1000 lb payload.

I loved that truck as a 4x4 for offroad adventures.
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Old 04-16-2020, 02:38 PM   #20
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You could do a test pull with a rental utility tool trailer with a large piece of equipment in the back. Talk to your local rental yard. It will probably have surge brakes but that won't affect acceleration and cruising feel. The only real difference will be wind drag.
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