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Old 05-14-2020, 02:54 PM   #1
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Covid-19 door opening!!!

Hi: All... At least in Ontario the door that slammed shut has been opened a crack!!!
Things are starting to go to the new normal for now. What's happening in your area? Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 05-14-2020, 03:06 PM   #2
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CBC radio says BC provincial parks will remain closed to camping at least until June 21.
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Old 05-14-2020, 03:10 PM   #3
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Court Decision in WI on the Lockdown

Here is an interesting twist reported on Wall Street Breakfast this morning: "While lockdown orders have been challenged across several states, the latest decision from Wisconsin marks the first such lawsuit to succeed against a broader political debate taking place across the nation. In a 4-3 ruling, the Wisconsin Supreme Court struck down the state's stay-at-home order as "unlawful, invalid, and unenforceable" and said the state's health secretary exceeded her authority. The order, which had been set to run until May 26, also restricted travel and business, along with threatening jail time or fines for those who don't comply."
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Old 05-14-2020, 03:19 PM   #4
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Colorado is opening the state park campgrounds slowly and with restrictions.

However, here is a quote from the state Safer-at-Home law.


"Do not take a “Colorado vacation” or go to your second home. Limit activities to your immediate community, no more than 10 miles from your home. Do not travel to mountain areas or the Western Slope. This is to prevent disease spread."

So, unless you live very near an opened SP campground you really can't take advantage of the opening.

Summer camping in CO means the mountains. Unless the rules are loosened, there will be very limited camping this summer.

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Old 05-15-2020, 09:02 AM   #5
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medical, not political..

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Originally Posted by EdColorado View Post
Colorado is opening the state park campgrounds slowly and with restrictions. However, here is a quote from the state Safer-at-Home law.
"Do not take a “Colorado vacation” or go to your second home. Limit activities to your immediate community, no more than 10 miles from your home. Do not travel to mountain areas or the Western Slope. This is to prevent disease spread."
So, unless you live very near an opened SP campground you really can't take advantage of the opening.
Summer camping in CO means the mountains. Unless the rules are loosened, there will be very limited camping this summer.
Ed
//////////////////////////////////////
I am a retired doc and I can NOT understand: 1. Locking healthy folks down close together, inside small areas w poor ventilation (little fresh air) and no sunlight...while one is [allegedly] trying to stem the spread of a viral respiratory disease, contagious mainly thru coughing of droplets. In many past years we had similar "flus" OR WORSE(remember 2009 , 2013 )?, yet no horrible lockdowns and NO disruption of the whole national economy or of CAMPING. In any previous, serious pandemic, one traditionally quarantined the sick and those who are MOST in danger of getting the disease. In this case it wd there4 have been the very elderly(most w serious co-morbidities), and those whose immune systems are compromised: Patients w cancer, on chemo, immune system diseases, HIV patients, addicts and so on. but not 330 million healthy folks .
2. I also question the phasing in of massive "testing efforts"... many "tests" are giving up to 40% False Positive results and [often] many false negative results. Who could use a test w results so wierdly out of the ballparks?? Not my practice.
3. Even the US CDC has partly admitted a serious problem..recently they told USA MDs to list [as DEATH BY Covid], any death with proven OR "suspected" Corona or any person who dies from other lung diseases (like 'seasonal flu', TB, Emphysema, COPD etc) if they also had proven Corona OR were "just suspected" of having Corona...ie, .lump all these deaths into "Death FROM COVID".
4. one more thing..there have been no vaccines for a corona virus to date, after years of trying. Corona viruses after all, often cause the 'common cold'..still no safe vaccine for THAT. How can one trust "vaccines" rushed into use so fast? Alternative & cheaper & safer treatments and prevention methods seem to have been near totally ignored: Vitamins D3 & vit C, cheap Hydroxychloroquin, cheap Zithromax, Zinc, sunshine, fresh air, rest(aka camping), good diet, etc etc...
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:15 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Hollybee View Post
//////////////////////////////////////
I am a retired doc and I can NOT understand: 1. Locking healthy folks down close together, inside small areas w poor ventilation (little fresh air) and no sunlight...while one is [allegedly] trying to stem the spread of a viral respiratory disease, contagious mainly thru coughing of droplets. In many past years we had similar "flus" OR WORSE(remember 2009 , 2013 )?, yet no horrible lockdowns and NO disruption of the whole national economy or of CAMPING. In any previous, serious pandemic, one traditionally quarantined the sick and those who are MOST in danger of getting the disease. In this case it wd there4 have been the very elderly(most w serious co-morbidities), and those whose immune systems are compromised: Patients w cancer, on chemo, immune system diseases, HIV patients, addicts and so on. but not 330 million healthy folks .
2. I also question the phasing in of massive "testing efforts"... many "tests" are giving up to 40% False Positive results and [often] many false negative results. Who could use a test w results so wierdly out of the ballparks?? Not my practice.
3. Even the US CDC has partly admitted a serious problem..recently they told USA MDs to list [as DEATH BY Covid], any death with proven OR "suspected" Corona or any person who dies from other lung diseases (like 'seasonal flu', TB, Emphysema, COPD etc) if they also had proven Corona OR were "just suspected" of having Corona...ie, .lump all these deaths into "Death FROM COVID".
4. one more thing..there have been no vaccines for a corona virus to date, after years of trying. Corona viruses after all, often cause the 'common cold'..still no safe vaccine for THAT. How can one trust "vaccines" rushed into use so fast? Alternative & cheaper & safer treatments and prevention methods seem to have been near totally ignored: Vitamins D3 & vit C, cheap Hydroxychloroquin, cheap Zithromax, Zinc, sunshine, fresh air, rest(aka camping), good diet, etc etc...
There is one critical fact that is all the difference this time. In each of the prior outbreaks (SARS, MERS, EBOLA) one had either a highly contagious virus OR a highly lethal virus. Covid-19 is both. Plus “heathy” folks without symptoms can be carriers. The medical system has never had to deal with a virus with these confounding attributes before.
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:37 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Hollybee View Post
//////////////////////////////////////

2. I also question the phasing in of massive "testing efforts"... many "tests" are giving up to 40% False Positive results and [often] many false negative results. Who could use a test w results so wierdly out of the ballparks?? Not my practice.
Countries with massive testing efforts have done much better than we have. South Korea and the USA had their first cases on the same day. South Korea instituted massive testing. We did not. South Korea has had 260 deaths from Covid. We are nearing 100,000. Notice a difference? We still have no national plan to deal with this virus.
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Hollybee View Post
//////////////////////////////////////
I am a retired doc and I can NOT understand: 1. Locking healthy folks down close together, inside small areas w poor ventilation (little fresh air) and no sunlight...while one is [allegedly] trying to stem the spread of a viral respiratory disease, contagious mainly thru coughing of droplets. In many past years we had similar "flus" OR WORSE(remember 2009 , 2013 )?, yet no horrible lockdowns and NO disruption of the whole national economy or of CAMPING. In any previous, serious pandemic, one traditionally quarantined the sick and those who are MOST in danger of getting the disease. In this case it wd there4 have been the very elderly(most w serious co-morbidities), and those whose immune systems are compromised: Patients w cancer, on chemo, immune system diseases, HIV patients, addicts and so on. but not 330 million healthy folks .
Maybe you should think about why that is. No national disruption previously. This time the experts all recommend stay at home orders. Why do you think they are reacting differently this time? Massive conspiracy? Among all the infectious disease experts in the world? If you think flu has been worse, go actually look at the numbers (don't just buy what your news source tells you.)
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Old 05-15-2020, 11:21 AM   #9
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Most states and U.S. territories have begun to ease restrictions on businesses and social activity, moving to reopen economies battered by the novel coronavirus pandemic and weeks of stay-at-home orders that affected some 315 million Americans.

Public health experts warn that this increased activity is likely to cause a surge of new infections.

“There is a real risk that you will trigger an outbreak that you may not be able to control” by reopening too quickly, said infectious-disease expert Anthony S. Fauci in Senate testimony May 12, “leading to some suffering and death that could be avoided.”

Cases continue to rise in some of the states where governors have been most aggressive in opening public spaces and businesses that rely on close personal contact, such as salons and gyms. None have met the federal government’s core recommendation of a two-week decline in reported cases.

So get ready for the darkest winter in the history of the continent. Because by then there might only be 310 million Americans. Feeling lucky?
To quote Forrest Gump's mother.... "Stupid is as stupid does."
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Old 05-15-2020, 11:45 AM   #10
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One of our local restaurants looked at proposed requirements for reopening and said they cannot meet them and won't try. I agree- they cannot possibly meet them, they have an old crowded building, people sitting close, small tables, big tables, lots of bar seating (not allowed) and no place for outdoor seating.

But I wouldn't go if they were allowed to open. I caught a cold there once sitting shoulder to shoulder with someone who had one.

Even with the restrictions- which would mean tables farther apart and half the people- I wouldn't go there and eat inside.

On the other hand, they've set up for takeout and are doing well and I hope that continues but I'm going to start using up the gift card I bought from them just in case they quit altogether.
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Old 05-15-2020, 01:06 PM   #11
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CBC radio says BC provincial parks will remain closed to camping at least until June 21.

BC Parks site says some will open June 1, other's won't. Just have to check individual park sites.
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Old 05-15-2020, 04:46 PM   #12
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AZ unfortunately is one driven by politics and we were "dead" Last of all the states on testing. Even so, our cases and deaths continue to rise even with politicians trying to hide the numbers. The Navajo reservation in AZ and NM are being brutalized as they were "perfect storm" situations. We respect life over $$, going to bars/restaurants, trailer pickups, etc. so 100% behind doing whatever is necessary to protect life and show compassion for those that have lost family members with more to come.
We will find answers and be able to be safely back to routine soon, but not worth the price to go too early in this historic time.
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Old 05-15-2020, 06:50 PM   #13
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From one physician to another: you're promotion of hydroxychloroquine and misrepresentation of the function or purpose of stay at home orders sound very political indeed. Assuming you are indeed able to understand medical literature, there is no other explanation for your posting.


Hopefully moderators will remove this post.
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Old 05-15-2020, 06:55 PM   #14
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South Korea's actions are due to it being traumatized by the H1N1 epidemic, which hit it pretty hard from what I understand.

Unfortunately we may be traumatized by COVID-19. I mentioned to my cousin that her teenage granddaughters are at the stage where their personalities are forming, and this pandemic may affect their behavior for the rest of their lives, just as growing up during the Great Depression affected the personalities of our parents.

As for restaurants being permitted to open at 25% capacity-- there are probably a lot of restaurants that couldn't make a profit at 25% capacity and thus might not bother to reopen with this restriction.
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:00 PM   #15
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From one physician to another: you're promotion of hydroxychloroquine and misrepresentation of the function or purpose of stay at home orders sound very political indeed. Assuming you are indeed able to understand medical literature, there is no other explanation for your posting.


Hopefully moderators will remove this post.
Thank you Dr. leer. I was trying to think of an appropriate response. You did it for me.
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:19 PM   #16
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From one physician to another: you're promotion of hydroxychloroquine and misrepresentation of the function or purpose of stay at home orders sound very political indeed. Assuming you are indeed able to understand medical literature, there is no other explanation for your posting.


Hopefully moderators will remove this post.
Our sentiment exactly
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:34 PM   #17
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From one physician to another: you're promotion of hydroxychloroquine and misrepresentation of the function or purpose of stay at home orders sound very political indeed. Assuming you are indeed able to understand medical literature, there is no other explanation for your posting.


Hopefully moderators will remove this post.
If you want moderator action on a post, report the post. State your specific reason as to why a post violates forum rules and should be deleted. I happen to be reading this thread because some of the posts have been problematic. However, much of the time moderators cannot read every post, and we rely on reporting to help guide us to threads that may need action. Thank you.

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Old 05-15-2020, 07:38 PM   #18
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Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by LRL View Post
From one physician to another: you're promotion of hydroxychloroquine and misrepresentation of the function or purpose of stay at home orders sound very political indeed. Assuming you are indeed able to understand medical literature, there is no other explanation for your posting.


Hopefully moderators will remove this post.
I Sincerely Thank you for your post and your service to humanity as a doctor whether is be at this time or in the past.
I have very limited medical knowledge but believe you have hit the nail on the head
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:02 PM   #19
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Am like many pretty frustrated. First we had to all lockdown as to not overwhelm the hospitals and we did it. At that time it was warned that the mortality rate for the U.S. alone would be over 1M people.

Now hospitals are laying off staff, people are not receiving treatment for cancer or other very important care; dentists cannot do fillings that then will in some cases require root canals or extractions- and are in peril of folding their practices. And the list goes on with businesses and employees suffering drastically.

Some believe the Federal Gov't should just keep printing money to take care of this financial pain, yet is that really feasible? Are we really at risk of the cure being worse than the disease?

I see many here are evidently insulated from the financial realities as most are retired and are lucky enough to own an Escape and be on this forum. Most however out there are not that fortunate and want to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.

It was easy to shut down; opening back up obviously isn't- yet it has to be done, and before a vaccine- if one ever in fact gets developed arrives. Just my $.02.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:06 PM   #20
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Am like many pretty frustrated. First we had to all lockdown as to not overwhelm the hospitals and we did it. At that time it was warned that the mortality rate for the U.S. alone would be over 1M people.

Now hospitals are laying off staff, people are not receiving treatment for cancer or other very important care; dentists cannot do fillings that then will in some cases require root canals or extractions- and are in peril of folding their practices. And the list goes on with businesses and employees suffering drastically.

Some believe the Federal Gov't should just keep printing money to take care of this financial pain, yet is that really feasible? Are we really at risk of the cure being worse than the disease?

I see many here are evidently insulated from the financial realities as most are retired and are lucky enough to own an Escape and be on this forum. Most however out there are not that fortunate and want to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.

It was easy to shut down; opening back up obviously isn't- yet it has to be done, and before a vaccine- if one ever in fact gets developed arrives. Just my $.02.
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