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Old 07-19-2020, 09:57 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I saw a man wearing a red T shirt this week that said
“ I am a true American Patriot , I refuse to wear a mask “
Kind of says it all !!
Seems the thread started out quite well, until the above post!

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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I hope the moderators close this thread before I lose my patience for stupidity and post something I may regret
And now you post that you want it shut it down? hm.
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Old 07-19-2020, 10:10 PM   #82
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For a note of hope and positivity, this is one of the most interesting early studies I’ve seen break:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...de-covid-.html

Connects the dots of why this doesn’t affect younger children. High Cholesterol and heart disease aren’t at all prevalent in children, takes some years for those conditions to be present. Very promising approach to take away the food source and starve the virus.

Similar approach in the SW to Scorpions. You can’t kill them, so you spray to eradicate the crickets, etc which are the Scorpions food source. Eliminate the food and the Scorpions move on.
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Old 07-19-2020, 10:15 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by padlin View Post
Just stop reading it.

Interesting response.
I cannot say more.
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Old 07-19-2020, 10:24 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg A View Post
For a note of hope and positivity, this is one of the most interesting early studies I’ve seen break:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...de-covid-.html

Connects the dots of why this doesn’t affect younger children. High Cholesterol and heart disease aren’t at all prevalent in children, takes some years for those conditions to be present. Very promising approach to take away the food source and starve the virus.

Similar approach in the SW to Scorpions. You can’t kill them, so you spray to eradicate the crickets, etc which are the Scorpions food source. Eliminate the food and the Scorpions move on.
Please do your research, Covid is affecting younger people and also children more then ever. This is no longer an old people killing virus
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Old 07-19-2020, 10:37 PM   #85
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Words from a "stable genius"

Me thinks this man got it right, about humanity, Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. A Nobel Prize to boot. Not an Ignoble Prize, like some have earned in spades.
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Old 07-19-2020, 10:55 PM   #86
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Here’s a positive experience from Colorado. We just got back from camping in a state park near Ouray. Ouray is a small town with a large tourist population; ice climbing in winter, hiking and rock climbing in summer, etc etc. The population fluctuates wildly with seasonal visitors. Ouray County has had very strict Covid prevention practices for months, masks are mandated and have been for some time. They have had six cases total in the county and plan to keep it that way. We stopped at a brewery with outside dining. Diners sign in at the door, then wait for a table. Everyone gets their hands squirted with sanitizer and are led (masked) to their tables with warnings to not touch hand rails, door knobs etc. No hard copy menus, you read it off your phone. Masks are worn until food and drink arrive, then back on afterwards. EVERYBODY complied, even a table of burly motorcycle riders.
A sign at the entrance says
No shirt
No shoes
No mask
No service
No dice

Expectations are set, are uniform, are supported by the whole county and are adhered to. We did not notice anyone looking miserable from mask wearing, just people out enjoying the beautiful mountains.
It felt as safe as it could possibly be. The campground was great, well-spaced sites lots of distance given when meeting others on the road or trail. It is a huge plus to be able to be self-contained.
Anyway, just tossing in a recent good experience.
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Old 07-20-2020, 12:27 AM   #87
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Amphitheater?
And I'll bet no plague.
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Old 07-20-2020, 01:17 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diannelgraham View Post
Please do your research, Covid is affecting younger people and also children more then ever. This is no longer an old people killing virus
Research is widely available for US:
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisiona...nd-S/9bhg-hcku

If you go to Worldwide data the numbers of Covid deaths for under 14 are almost non-existent.

Some children may have heart disease, hereditary high cholesterol, or some other underlying conditions that cause them to be at high risk for severe Covid but it is not prevalent in the data to date.

US average age of Covid death is about 10 years younger than most of the world which scientists are pointing to the middle aged obesity problem in the US as a possible explanation. (Usually accompanies high cholesterol)

While no one wants children or anyone to get seriously ill in any numbers, the correlation in the previously mentioned study between high cholesterol being a nourishment source for the virus is very promising to find a simple and widely available treatment solution to prevent Covid from advancing once contracted. Let’s hope the research continues to bear fruit, so that no one has to die from this.
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Old 07-20-2020, 06:38 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg A View Post
If you go to Worldwide data the numbers of Covid deaths for under 14 are almost non-existent.

Some children may have heart disease, hereditary high cholesterol, or some other underlying conditions that cause them to be at high risk for severe Covid but it is not prevalent in the data to date.
Researchers report nearly 300 cases of inflammatory syndrome tied to Covid-19 in kids

The studies, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, describe children who develop severe inflammation affecting multiple organ systems after having had Covid-19, sometimes between two and four weeks after the infection. The majority of the children were previously healthy.

In one of the studies, led by researchers at Boston Children’s Hospital, 80% of the children who developed the condition required intensive care, 20% required mechanical ventilation, and four children, or 2%, died. In the second study, from researchers from New York state, a similar percentage of 99 children who developed the syndrome required ICU care and two children died. In both studies, many of the children developed cardiovascular and clotting problems and many had gastrointestinal symptoms. A high proportion also had skin rashes.
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Old 07-20-2020, 07:37 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diannelgraham View Post
I was born in Canada also a US citizen. If Canada is not careful they will also wind up in the same place all us stupid US people are right now. You need to wear masks social distance and protect each other, we didn’t and now we have over 140,000 people dead. Don't let that happen up their because you let your guard down and felt your are safe right now, you aren’t.
Just because masks are not worn by many does not at all mean that we are being less safe. Keeping a distance from strangers is now a very common thing, and even with people we know by don't see often. If the situation required wearing a mask I would gladly wear one, I just have not been in that situation yet.

I actually (and sadly) find it amusing many of the folks I do see wearing masks. Often worn under their nose, lots of pulling and adjusting on them, pulling them down under their chins to talk, I know many wear them for days without washing or replacing. Many mask wearers are probably less safe than those keeping a good distance.

I am not the least bit against folks donning masks and using them properly, especially those who are at a close distance from others, like a bus, or any tight gathering situation.

Hugs are (were) a big form of greeting and saying goodbye for me, but now only a few family members and friends get one.
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Old 07-20-2020, 07:44 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg A View Post
US average age of Covid death is about 10 years younger than most of the world which scientists are pointing to the middle aged obesity problem in the US as a possible explanation. (Usually accompanies high cholesterol)
I have read many a doctors report that states that two of the biggest factors with folks younger than the largest group that fall victim, is being overweight and not being in good physical condition. Fortunately, I have chosen to go the other way on both, losing all excess weight and being in the best shape I have been in many years.

One thing we commonly do with social gatherings is to hold them outside, as it is well proven that distancing is even way more effective outside compared to inside, where especially in a home it is near impossible to maintain a 2m distance with 6-10 folks there.
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:13 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Just because masks are not worn by many does not at all mean that we are being less safe. Keeping a distance from strangers is now a very common thing, and even with people we know by don't see often. If the situation required wearing a mask I would gladly wear one, I just have not been in that situation yet.
As Dr. Amy Acton would explain in Ohio's Coronavirus briefings, that no single practice provides 100% protection. They all have holes. She used the analogy of slices of Swiss Cheese having holes. A single piece of Swish Cheese has holes, but, as you start to layer slices of Swiss Cheese the holes get covered.

So, 'Social Distancing' does not 100% prevent the spread of Covid 19, washing your hands does not 100% prevent the spread of Covid 19, wearing a mask does not 100% prevent the spread of Covid 19. But, when you combine these measures the holes in each one start to get covered. The protections provided by each measure start to work together and do prevent the spread of the pandemic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I actually (and sadly) find it amusing many of the folks I do see wearing masks. Often worn under their nose, lots of pulling and adjusting on them, pulling them down under their chins to talk, I know many wear them for days without washing or replacing. Many mask wearers are probably less safe than those keeping a good distance.
Yes, people need to wear masks properly. However, given that you wear a mask to help contain the virus to you if you are asymptomatically positive, rather than protect you from the virus, washing a mask or not has little impact on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I am not the least bit against folks donning masks and using them properly, especially those who are at a close distance from others, like a bus, or any tight gathering situation.

Hugs are (were) a big form of greeting and saying goodbye for me, but now only a few family members and friends get one.
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:46 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by LRL View Post
There is a huge difference here. A tie may or may not be respectful (e.g., wearing one to a funeral), but not wearing it puts no one else at risk. Not wearing a mask puts your other Escape friends... and anyone else you encounter... at risk if you're infected. I fail to understand the civil liberty argument here.
civil liberty

  • n.
    one's freedom to exercise one's rights as guaranteed under the laws of the country
  • n.
    fundamental individual right protected by law and expressed as immunity from unwarranted governmental interference
The proposition was that a non-mask-wearer violates the civil liberty of the person who feels offended and threatened by it.

There is no civil rights violation against the offended party. The offended party is free to hold his breath and move farther away. The offended party is free to wear protective equipment to guard his own health (he could even dress in a full hazmat suit with military grade gas mask if he wished). Also, the feeling of being threatened is largely emotional, perceptual and illusory because the risk to the typical individual is so low. Let's remember that catching Covid is not a death sentence. The US mortality rate currently stands at 0.042%; a person's statistical likelihood of dying from this virus is 0.00042 to 1, or 1 chance in 2,380. If a person is in good health without co-morbidities, that chance is more like 1 in 6,000 (or less).

We increase the likelihood of a fellow motorist's death every time we drive on the highway. Towing a trailer might even increase that likelihood by some small amount. Are we violating the civil rights of other motorists by being on the road? Of course not. (But motorists do take offense at other motorists sometimes, and road rage is all too common.) I see some people flying into a similar rage over masks, and I wonder: where is the tolerance and self-restraint?

On the other hand, when mask advocates impose their will on people and businesses to comply with the mask-wearers' wishes, don't they risk becoming aggressors against the very civil liberties they claim to champion?
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Old 07-20-2020, 10:22 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg A View Post
For a note of hope and positivity, this is one of the most interesting early studies I’ve seen break:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...de-covid-.html

Connects the dots of why this doesn’t affect younger children. High Cholesterol and heart disease aren’t at all prevalent in children, takes some years for those conditions to be present. Very promising approach to take away the food source and starve the virus.

For some reason I have naturally low cholesterol, lower at my last physical than it was twenty years ago. It must be genetic; it certainly isn't due to lifestyle. Also, I rarely get a common cold. Since I think colds are caused by a type of coronavirus, I wonder if my cholesterol level and resistance to colds are linked.
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Old 07-20-2020, 01:40 PM   #95
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[QUOTE=Mike G;345137] civil liberty

  • n.
    one's freedom to exercise one's rights as guaranteed under the laws of the country
  • n.
    fundamental individual right protected by law and expressed as immunity from unwarranted governmental interference
The proposition was that a non-mask-wearer violates the civil liberty of the person who feels offended and threatened by it.

There is no civil rights violation against the offended party. The offended party is free to hold his breath and move farther away. The offended party is free to wear protective equipment to guard his own health (he could even dress in a full hazmat suit with military grade gas mask if he wished). Also, the feeling of being threatened is largely emotional, perceptual and illusory because the risk to the typical individual is so low. Let's remember that catching Covid is not a death sentence. The US mortality rate currently stands at 0.042%; a person's statistical likelihood of dying from this virus is 0.00042 to 1, or 1 chance in 2,380. If a person is in good health without co-morbidities, that chance is more like 1 in 6,000 (or less).

We increase the likelihood of a fellow motorist's death every time we drive on the highway. Towing a trailer might even increase that likelihood by some small amount. Are we violating the civil rights of other motorists by being on the road? Of course not. (But motorists do take offense at other motorists sometimes, and road rage is all too common.) I see some people flying into a similar rage over masks, and I wonder: where is the tolerance and self-restraint?

On the other hand, when mask advocates impose their will on people and businesses to comply with the mask-wearers' wishes, don't they risk becoming aggressors against the very civil liberties they claim to champion?[/QUOTE

https://harvardlawreview.org/2020/07...nd-the-courts/

Per the Supreme Court of the United States in Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905) the state and federal government can make reasonable laws that may temporarily violate someones civil liberties for the greater good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

And for those who love legalese.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:08 PM   #96
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Correction- I hear this all the time and there are a lot of misleading memes. While the mask probably is most effective at protecting you from someone's droplets (close by sneeze or cough) there is a ton of evidence this virus is airborne as an aerosol. A well-fitting mask- meaning it goes in and out with your breath- protects from aerosols. Not 100%, no, but there is also mounting evidence that how much virus you get affects how sick you get. Now if you are wearing a mask with big gaps so that you get plenty of air (though why you think the air can't get through but the much larger virus particles can, I don't know!) it will not protect you from anything but droplets- and won't protect anyone else from anything but droplets, not the aerosol produced when you speak or cough or sneeze.
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:40 PM   #97
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Hold on, help's comin'
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:12 PM   #98
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Hey Steve I thought you were a policeman not a lawyer!
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:28 PM   #99
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mask-exhale-smoke.jpg


Exhalation takes the path of least resistance. A tight fit could reduce leakage. But I wonder if any people manage a good enough fit to prevent leakage from occurring?
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:03 PM   #100
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Yup

Quote:
Originally Posted by emers382 View Post
Hey Steve I thought you were a policeman not a lawyer!
Thanks for your post Steven. As a 32 plus year public employee I had the opportunity to attend a number of seminars. One of these was a two day affair featuring James Koslowski who wrote the legal column for the National Recreation and Parks Association in their monthly
magazine. The one thing that he impressed was Salis Populi Suprema Lex . The people’s safety is the highest law. I made that my personal mantra for many years and still believe it very strongly. So it’s masks for me and no commerce in places without respect for customers or their employees.
Hope we will camp together again sooner than later.. I’m buying.
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