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Old 01-05-2016, 01:00 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
BlackJack was 3800# axle and 500# tongue- total 4300# coming back from Osoyoos in 2014, maybe a little more now.
What happened to the diet Jim?

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f7...diet-4803.html
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:03 PM   #82
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Quote:
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Oh, and larger tanks - we dry camp the overwhelming majority of the time and the larger tanks will be much appreciated.
We boondock sometimes especially at the beach or State campgrounds . We use our toliet and bath . The black tank for 2 adults we can go 6-7 days . For fresh water even being conservative , not washing dishes , changed out shower head , because we use the shower everyday . The 20 gal is lacking in our 19 . We have 4 containers filled 2 -6 gal , 1 -5 gal , 1 -3 gal . Giving us a addional 20 gal . Will get us 6-7 days too . If needed more water can take a container and fill it up and put in trailer as needed .For drinking do not use trailer have 3 gal with a dolphin pump . The black tank after 7 days is filled up so bought a 12 gal barebones sewer container and have that , which only needed once so far . Found even using chemical in toilet don't throw a lot of paper down there only what is needed . Dual batteries have folding solar panel and a 1000 watt Honda gen. . We are pretty self contained for a week in our little 19 . Pat
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:32 PM   #83
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Jon - I was hoping you would post with info about the weight project you are working on. And like Jim, that anyone with accurate real world weight numbers of ANY Escapes gets those to Jon. Maybe the link to the spreadsheet could be made as a sticky somewhere here?
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:48 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thoer View Post
Jon V posted a very handy spreadsheet with real world weights of a range of brands and sizes of fiberglass trailers. I thought these numbers might help with folks pondering between the 19 and 21.

The average total weight of Escape 19's was 3685#
The average total weight of Escape 21's was 4012#
A difference of 327# average between 19 and 21' Escapes

The lightest 19 was 3130#; heaviest 4140#.
The lightest 21 was 3600#; heaviest 4331#

Tongue weight for 19's were 220# to 480#; average 358#
Tongue weight for 21's were 380# to 500#; average 445#

I think I've got those numbers all correct - please feel free to check my math!

(Edit) I just noticed that the heaviest 19 is over the Escape stated Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 4000#
Jon V,
Could you add a note on line 144 (the 3600# total weight)? That was our "as delivered" weight - all options and full propane, but no personal items or food.
We run closer to 4300# for an average trip.
Thanks!
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:51 PM   #85
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I currently have a 17 but someday closer to retirement I am going to move up to a larger trailer. But which one? I like the size of the 19 and the lay out but one of the things that I don’t like with the 17 is cooking so close to the bed would like a little more separation between the sink/stove and my bed. The 19 looks like it’s close too but the 21 and the 5.0 TA have great separation between bed and kitchen. I’m guessing my highlander would tow a 21 but I might have a new TV by then anyway.
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:54 PM   #86
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Stove by the bed was Norma's biggest objection to the 19.
I tried, but once she stepped into a 21, she didn't want to look at 19's any more...
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:36 PM   #87
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Quote:
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Stove by the bed was Norma's biggest objection to the 19.
I tried, but once she stepped into a 21, she didn't want to look at 19's any more...
That's what happened here. The first look in the 21 and it was all over. But having a queen size bed in the 21 would be nice, but then the bath would shrink. Can't have it all unless you go to one of those big fifth wheelers. And then if you're going to tow one of those, you might just as well take your whole house with you.

I backed one of those monstrosities in for a gentleman who lacked backing skills, and looking at his trailer it was pretty obvious he had tangled with more than one tree or rock. Loren
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Old 01-05-2016, 03:45 PM   #88
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Quote:
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I did eliminate a lot of stuff, just need to be reweighed and updated.
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:57 PM   #89
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4140 lbs for a 19? I guess I don't feel so bad now about ours scaling at 3320.
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Old 01-05-2016, 10:01 PM   #90
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4140 lbs for a 19? I guess I don't feel so bad now about ours scaling at 3320.
You're obviously not an Amazon Prime member.
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Old 01-05-2016, 10:11 PM   #91
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Quote:
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For boondocking, tank size is 50% greater for fresh water on the 21'.

I didn't realize this. I am so glad we went with the 21 for yet another reason. We boondock most of the time and already take extra water along to replenish our 30 gal tank. Our Nash had a 46 gal tank.

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Old 01-05-2016, 10:34 PM   #92
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Bob, you must be fairly big water consumers, or maybe we are just low volume users? With a separate 5 gallon can for cooking and drinking, we never once came close to running out with our 19 while boondocking for near a week. We do usually sponge bath and rarely use the shower though.
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:15 PM   #93
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Jim, I thought we were somewhat conservative, using the tank water to rinse vegetables, wash hands and flush the toilet (use outhouse for BMs). Also we use it for sponge baths every 2-3 days, but that is less than the bathroom sink's volume X2. We bring two extra 5 gal containers of water, one for drinking and the other to replenish the Escape's tank after about a week. This works for us up to 10 days or do. I would be interested in what others manage with. Maybe start a water usage survey thread?

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Old 01-05-2016, 11:19 PM   #94
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I would be interested in what others manage with. Maybe start a water usage survey thread?
It would be interesting, for sure. I bet there will be a wide variance to the responses.

I have never done 10 days straight boondocking, yet. 7 is the longest so far. We do often have an outhouse to use too.
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:35 PM   #95
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Eric, I see that some numbers have been corrected. Expected average 21' weight is 4200-4300 lbs. The 3600 lbs. was a mistake as Paulw says. Our 21' with options only is over
3600 lbs. With a weight of 4200 lbs., tongue weight would need to be at least 420 so 380 is too low for most.

The average weight for a 19' seems to be about 3800 lbs. The dry weight for a 21' is about 500 lbs. over that for a 19' so the same owners with the same stuff (with about the same for options) would have a weight of 4300 lbs. for a 21'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thoer View Post
Jon V posted a very handy spreadsheet with real world weights of a range of brands and sizes of fiberglass trailers. I thought these numbers might help with folks pondering between the 19 and 21.

The average total weight of Escape 19's was 3685#
The average total weight of Escape 21's was 4012#
A difference of 327# average between 19 and 21' Escapes

The lightest 19 was 3130#; heaviest 4140#.
The lightest 21 was 3600#; heaviest 4331#

Tongue weight for 19's were 220# to 480#; average 358#
Tongue weight for 21's were 380# to 500#; average 445#

I think I've got those numbers all correct - please feel free to check my math!

(Edit) I just noticed that the heaviest 19 is over the Escape stated Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 4000#
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:16 PM   #96
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Quote:
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It would be interesting, for sure. I bet there will be a wide variance to the responses.

I have never done 10 days straight boondocking, yet. 7 is the longest so far. We do often have an outhouse to use too.
I found that my fresh water tank lasts about a week. This is while traveling alone, showering daily, and using the trailer's bathroom and not the campground facilities. It is no big deal to replenish the fresh water with a five-gallon can; my constraint is the gray water tank, which lasts about 8-9 days max. Then I have to go find a dump station.
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:34 PM   #97
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In hot weather, the outside shower can be used to save space in the gray tank but guess you can't use soap!
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:55 PM   #98
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Try Dr. Bronner's Castille soap. We use outdoor shower 90% of the time. That soap is biodegradable and used by many outdoor folks.

Edit: " Because Dr. Bronner’s Magic Soaps products are organic and biodegradable, they can be used responsibly outdoors, with appropriate consideration for freshwater biomes and drinking water sources." From dr.bronner.com
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Old 01-06-2016, 11:02 PM   #99
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Biodegradable may not be what you think:

The main difference between biodegradable and compostable is the latter breaks down into “humus,” which provides valuable nutrients to the soil. Biodegradable products just return to nature, disintegrating or disappearing completely. This disintegration could take a week or years – another difference with compostable, where items must break down in a “timely” fashion i.e., one-to-four months. (The FTC states biodegradable items have “reasonably short period of time” to break down, which hasn’t been clarified.)
Finally, compostable items must completely break down and not release any metals or toxins into the compost. Biodegradable products can leave metal residue in their return to nature.
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Old 01-07-2016, 08:31 AM   #100
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Cathy, I should have indicated that the numbers I posted were those in the spreadsheet as of 12/21/15.

My main purpose was to draw attention to the existence of this valuable work Jon V is updating and maintaining for us. As Jon said, the spreadsheet has macros that let you select cells of any of the specific models and see accurately calculated averages, max, min, etc for that specific model without needing to do that math.

The spreadsheet is the only way I know of to see actual real world accurate measurements rather than guesses and estimates. The more folks who get accurate data to Jon to incorporate into the spreadsheet, the more accurate picture it will give for each model's max, min, and averages.
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