2019 E21 Front Solar Panel Failure

[bborzell]

Thanks. I am guessing that it will have the slightly raised rear mounts.

[Effie]

Originally Posted by bborzell

I am OK with this approach. No need to rent wind tunnel time from the Mercedes F1 team.

Exactly, those designers at F1 need to save grams, that's not the case with Escape, just need to design a more robust roof mount, it's not rocket science. But the way I see it, just as important is Escape response to this last incident.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Barb

Escape verbally committed to correcting/repairing the issue, but then recanted via an email two days later with only a first name stating that apparently they changed their minds and deem such failures "warranty" issues. Ours is 2 months out of date..

That’s totally unacceptable. A poorly engineered solar mount is a major fault no matter when it happens and is a huge liability. They should be thankful there were no injuries and you would think they would want to keep you a happy customer. Getting to the root cause of the issue can be used to improve their trailers. I’ve been trying to give Karl and the investment company he answers to the benefit of the doubt but I’m not liking what I’m seeing.

[Oldtimer]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

That’s totally unacceptable. A poorly engineered solar mount is a major fault no matter when it happens and is a huge liability. They should be thankful there were no injuries and you would think they would want to keep you a happy customer. Getting to the root cause of the issue can be used to improve their trailers. I’ve been trying to give Karl and the investment company he answers to the benefit of the doubt but I’m not liking what I’m seeing.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you rubicon. It use to be escape would bend over backwards to take care of their customers. Now it’s like we’ve gotten our money from you now your on your own. They are going the way of the crap that comes out of Indiana where most of the stick builds come from. A disheartening turn for a company I use to respect and recommend to others.

David

[C&G in FL]

Get the NTSB involved and the squirming will soon start and a new tune may be heard.

[gklott]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

That’s totally unacceptable. A poorly engineered solar mount is a major fault no matter when it happens and is a huge liability. They should be thankful there were no injuries and you would think they would want to keep you a happy customer. Getting to the root cause of the issue can be used to improve their trailers. I’ve been trying to give Karl and the investment company he answers to the benefit of the doubt but I’m not liking what I’m seeing.

Wonder if all 19' and 21NE owners will receive an ETI -AND- GoPower approved fix?

The GoPower solar panel manual includes these two requirements, which are likely the root cause rubicon327 mentions:
"• Select a location where the mounting surface is at least 1/2” thick and strong enough to support the solar panel mounting hardware.
• Solar panels should be located a minimum of 3’ from the front of RV to reduce wind load on the panels."

We are hoping for such a jointly approved solution.

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Get the NTSB involved and the squirming will soon start and a new tune may be heard.

Agree that the US NHTSA or Transport Canada should be made aware of these incidents.

73/gus

[MVA]

When we installed solar on our trailer, I had a number of conversations with AM Solar and Go Power on solar panel installation. Both companies were well aware of the solar panel installation failures on Escape trailers. In light of this knowledge, AM Solar would still install solar on the front of the trailer using their mounts which are extruded stainless steel (see below).

I have also read the Go Power installation manual. Based on the Go Power installation requirements and the number of front panel failures we opted for a back mounted panel only; the requirement of 3 feet from the front of the trailer seemingly precludes a front mounted panel. A second problem per the Go Power installation is that ETI installs the panel by affixing mounts to the corners of the solar panel and not at the prescribed mounting holes on the long sides. Most Solar panel frames are only 18 gauge aluminum and are constructed for terrestrial applications; not structural for RV environments. Additional structural support is advised on the long sides. Failures have been seen where the panel yields on the long edges.

Per Centex's comment on aerodynamic flow. Completely agree. There is clearly a coupled effect of linear vibration on the mounts induced by the aerodynamics of the air flow, both linearly and tangentially to the panel.

Lastly, the mounts that ETI uses "appear" to not be extruded aluminum angle but are simply bent aluminum. Hence, the metal that already exceeded its yield strength prior to installation. For those that are not MEs, consider a beer can that you bend over and over till you can tear it in two. In a vibration environment induced by the aerodynamics on the front panel, the bent aluminum bracket fails.

2 cents

[MichaelS78]

. Solar panels should be located a minimum of 3’ from the front of RV to reduce wind load on the panels."

. *Escape verbally indicated they are aware of issues with front solar panel failures on 21's and apparently sent emails to some owners but not others.
Escape verbally committed to correcting/repairing the issue, but then recanted via an email two days later with only a first name stating that apparently they changed their minds and deem such failures "warranty" issues. Ours is 2 months out of date

I am confused as to why ETI disregards manufacturer requirements for installation and then attempts to offload their mistake as the manufacturers mistake (warranty claim). ETI's business model won't sustain this as they rely on manufacturers to honor warranty claims.

Clearly ETI is in the wrong here and should immediately remove the option for front solar panels until they find a panel designed to sit closer than 3' to the front. They can't change the strength of the panel so it doesn't matter what they do to increase the mount strength. The panels themselves cannot handle being so close to the front of the trailer according to manufacturer instructions.

Not sure how I missed this issue as I see there are numerous threads. Once again thankful for this forum. We won't be getting that front panel and I plan on asking ETI how they came to the conclusion to go against manufacturer installation instructions. Is anything else in the trailer blatantly ignoring manufacturer instructions?

[MyronL]

Well, I'm feeling like a genius.

[MVA]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

I am confused as to why ETI disregards manufacturer requirements for installation and then attempts to offload their mistake as the manufacturers mistake (warranty claim). ETI's business model won't sustain this as they rely on manufacturers to honor warranty claims.

Clearly ETI is in the wrong here and should immediately remove the option for front solar panels until they find a panel designed to sit closer than 3' to the front. They can't change the strength of the panel so it doesn't matter what they do to increase the mount strength. The panels themselves cannot handle being so close to the front of the trailer according to manufacturer instructions.

Not sure how I missed this issue as I see there are numerous threads. Once again thankful for this forum. We won't be getting that front panel and I plan on asking ETI how they came to the conclusion to go against manufacturer installation instructions. Is anything else in the trailer blatantly ignoring manufacturer instructions?

So in my researching rigid panel mounting with AM Solar, Go Power, Zamp, Renogy, and others, all recommended or required mounding the panels via the pre-drilled holes on the long sides. Since that would require drilling holes in the center section of the trailer, I would recommend adding aluminum angle to the long sides to add rigidity.

You can see in Myron's pic where he has done so.
YMMV

2 cents

[kathytony1985]

MyronL - So, does it stay up like that all the time? Or do you lay it flat when you are stationery to capture the sunshine?

[bborzell]

3.2 PLACEMENT OF SOLAR PANELS
FIGURE 3-A: CEP
3. PLANNING LOCATIONS
3.1 PLAN YOUR SOLAR SYSTEM SETUP
1. Take a few minutes before commencing any installation work to layout your solar system on paper first. Use the diagrams within this manual (pages 20-27) to help.
2. Complete a simple block diagram identifying the key components and connections of your Solar charging system: Solar Panels, MC4 Positive and Negative Extension Cables, GP-PWM-30 Solar Charge Controller and your Battery Bank as detailed in the diagrams.
3. For the Elite and Extreme Kits include the Inverter, Charger/Converter and Transfer Switch. For detailed installation of these system components see the specific manuals included with each item.
4. Identify and prepare easy/safe access to possible installation locations in the 3 key installation areas within your RV;
• Roof
• Instrument/Controls
• Storage Compartments
Solar Panels
Solar Charge Controller and/or Inverter Remote Inverter, Converter/Charger, Transfer Switch
1. 2.
Remove all solar panels from their boxes. Set aside the boxes as they will be used in the instructions to follow. Using the solar panel boxes, plan the layout of the panels on your RV rooftop. Once you have positioned the boxes
Note
• Placement of the panel(s) should be as close together as possible. Each panel has 3.3’ of cable coming from the junction box. It may be necessary to use solar panel extension cables. If required, longer extension cables can be purchased. Please contact customer service at 1.866.247.6527 to purchase.
• Select a location where the mounting surface is at least 1/2” thick and strong enough to support the solar panel mounting hardware.


• Solar panels should be located a minimum of 3’ from the front of RV to reduce wind load on the panels.


• Avoid internal wiring when selecting the solar panel mounting locations for drilling the mounting holes.
• Ensure fixed obstacles, such as air conditioners, will not shade the solar panels. (Shading can greatly reduce the
performance of the solar system).
• Ensure there is enough room to access the panels and other fixed obstacles for future inspection and maintenance.”

[yangstyle]

Originally Posted by MVA

When we installed solar on our trailer, I had a number of conversations with AM Solar and Go Power on solar panel installation. Both companies were well aware of the solar panel installation failures on Escape trailers. In light of this knowledge, AM Solar would still install solar on the front of the trailer using their mounts which are extruded stainless steel (see below).

I have also read the Go Power installation manual. Based on the Go Power installation requirements and the number of front panel failures we opted for a back mounted panel only; the requirement of 3 feet from the front of the trailer seemingly precludes a front mounted panel. A second problem per the Go Power installation is that ETI installs the panel by affixing mounts to the corners of the solar panel and not at the prescribed mounting holes on the long sides. Most Solar panel frames are only 18 gauge aluminum and are constructed for terrestrial applications; not structural for RV environments. Additional structural support is advised on the long sides. Failures have been seen where the panel yields on the long edges.

Per Centex's comment on aerodynamic flow. Completely agree. There is clearly a coupled effect of linear vibration on the mounts induced by the aerodynamics of the air flow, both linearly and tangentially to the panel.

Lastly, the mounts that ETI uses "appear" to not be extruded aluminum angle but are simply bent aluminum. Hence, the metal that already exceeded its yield strength prior to installation. For those that are not MEs, consider a beer can that you bend over and over till you can tear it in two. In a vibration environment induced by the aerodynamics on the front panel, the bent aluminum bracket fails.

2 cents

If you want a second one at the front you could always go with a flexible one. Some people on here have done that.

[oldwave]

When I expand my solar I’ll go with an expensive portable panel which gives the flexibility to place its most advantageous angle. With the single on top I’d secure it if I’m away from the site which still provides some charging. The new Zamp obsidian panels also are a lower profile panel for roof mounting. Slimmer may help on the wind loading. Expensive I grant you. AM solar however has stated they never have had a panel come off. Escape might well be advised to consul heavily with them as they aren’t far away. Penny wise etc ?

[Oldtimer]

Originally Posted by bborzell

3.2 PLACEMENT OF SOLAR PANELS
FIGURE 3-A: CEP
3. PLANNING LOCATIONS
3.1 PLAN YOUR SOLAR SYSTEM SETUP
1. Take a few minutes before commencing any installation work to layout your solar system on paper first. Use the diagrams within this manual (pages 20-27) to help.
2. Complete a simple block diagram identifying the key components and connections of your Solar charging system: Solar Panels, MC4 Positive and Negative Extension Cables, GP-PWM-30 Solar Charge Controller and your Battery Bank as detailed in the diagrams.
3. For the Elite and Extreme Kits include the Inverter, Charger/Converter and Transfer Switch. For detailed installation of these system components see the specific manuals included with each item.
4. Identify and prepare easy/safe access to possible installation locations in the 3 key installation areas within your RV;
• Roof
• Instrument/Controls
• Storage Compartments
Solar Panels
Solar Charge Controller and/or Inverter Remote Inverter, Converter/Charger, Transfer Switch
1. 2.
Remove all solar panels from their boxes. Set aside the boxes as they will be used in the instructions to follow. Using the solar panel boxes, plan the layout of the panels on your RV rooftop. Once you have positioned the boxes
Note
• Placement of the panel(s) should be as close together as possible. Each panel has 3.3’ of cable coming from the junction box. It may be necessary to use solar panel extension cables. If required, longer extension cables can be purchased. Please contact customer service at 1.866.247.6527 to purchase.
• Select a location where the mounting surface is at least 1/2” thick and strong enough to support the solar panel mounting hardware.


• Solar panels should be located a minimum of 3’ from the front of RV to reduce wind load on the panels.


• Avoid internal wiring when selecting the solar panel mounting locations for drilling the mounting holes.
• Ensure fixed obstacles, such as air conditioners, will not shade the solar panels. (Shading can greatly reduce the
performance of the solar system).
• Ensure there is enough room to access the panels and other fixed obstacles for future inspection and maintenance.”

To do the above would require thought and common sense on Escapes part, it seems they are proving they have none with at least two ongoing issues.

David

[DT6]

I also had Escape "verbally" agree several times to a repair an issue I reported while in warranty. They agreed "verbally" to fix it after the COVID travel restrictions were lifted. I called as soon as restrictions were lifted and was told "we have no record of those conversations in our notes and the trailer is out of warranty". They refused to make an appointment to fix it. I'm going to place a separate post regarding this issue as I believe it highlights a bad change in how Escape now works with their customers.

[CADreamin]

Curious. Since our 2018 21' has the panels mounted on the rear, and photos on Escape's web site of the 21'C and 21'NE all have panels shown on the rear, were the panels that failed additional panels that were added to the front?

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by CADreamin

Curious. Since our 2018 21' has the panels mounted on the rear, and photos on Escape's web site of the 21'C and 21'NE all have panels shown on the rear, were the panels that failed additional panels that were added to the front?

I believe the stock location for a single panel is in the rear and the additional optional panel would be in the front..........

[CADreamin]

Thanks Jim.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Get the NTSB involved and the squirming will soon start and a new tune may be heard.

As Gus mentioned, for those in the U.S., the appropriate agency is NHTSA, rather than NTSB; NTSB doesn't deal with cars, trucks, and trailers. Just as with the Suburban stove issue, safety-related incidents are reported to NHTSA, which (among other functions) tracks recalls for highway vehicles.

Even if every Escape built in 2019 with a solar panel reported a failure, it would probably not lead to enough reaction to cause much squirming, but it is the right place to go (again, in the U.S.).