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09-04-2021, 07:35 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVA
... AM Solar would still install solar on the front of the trailer using their mounts which are extruded stainless steel (see below).
...
Lastly, the mounts that ETI uses "appear" to not be extruded aluminum angle but are simply bent aluminum. Hence, the metal that already exceeded its yield strength prior to installation.
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I would be astounded to find an extruded stainless steel component in any consumer product, and especially in the very basic hardware used for solar panel installations. The AM Solar stainless steel brackets are made of bent plate, and there's nothing wrong with that. The suitability of forming by bending depends on the material; in aluminum that would ideally mean bending the material in the annealed state then heat-treating, but no one is going to do that for RV solar panel mounting brackets.
The AM Solar bracket system doesn't look particularly well-designed, but the stainless steel material (whatever alloy it might actually be) is more suitable than formed aluminum plate in this application.
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09-04-2021, 07:45 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVA
So in my researching rigid panel mounting with AM Solar, Go Power, Zamp, Renogy, and others, all recommended or required mounding the panels via the pre-drilled holes on the long sides. Since that would require drilling holes in the center section of the trailer, I would recommend adding aluminum angle to the long sides to add rigidity.
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That makes complete sense to me.
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09-04-2021, 09:45 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: East of Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2021 Escape 5.0 / 2022 F150 SuperCab
Posts: 2,864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVA
So in my researching rigid panel mounting with AM Solar ...<snip>... all recommended or required mounding [sic] the panels via the pre-drilled holes on the long sides.
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I'm a tad confused by this statement given that AM Solar specifically describes the use of their Mount Adaptor Set which is shown attached on the short-side extrusion and requires drilling new holes near the ends of the long-side extrusion. Please see AM Solar sells several brands and sizes of panels 'bundled' with this 'short-side' mounting system; doesn't that constitute a 'recommendation' of that as a structurally sound system (acknowledging that nothing in this goes to the issue of fore-to-aft location of the panels on the trailer roof, only to the issue of the panel-to-mount location and interface)?
Can you direct me to an AM Solar page recommending or requiring "mounding [sic] the panels via the pre-drilled holes on the long sides, as I'm having trouble finding that?
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09-05-2021, 11:58 AM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Trailer: 2021 21NE
Posts: 516
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If Escape uses the brackets that come with the Go Power Solar Panels they are anodized aluminum, not extruded aluminum. It is my understanding that anodized aluminum wears better and is more resistant to corrosion. Time will tell.
Also, I watched the installation video on Go Power web site and it shows the panels being installed on the long sides, not the ends as Escape installs them. I will be interested to see how Escape has installed our front panel on our 21NE when we receive it in 2 weeks. Hopefully they have learned from these negative experiences and we will have a satisfactory installation. If not, then we will reinforce the long edge with angled aluminum as has been suggested on this and other threads.
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09-05-2021, 01:10 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytony1985
If Escape uses the brackets that come with the Go Power Solar Panels they are anodized aluminum, not extruded aluminum.
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Anodizing is a surface finish; extrusion is a process for forming material into a shape. They are unrelated concepts, and neither one describes the composition of the material (what aluminum alloy in this case) or the heat treatment. An extruded part can be anodized or not; an anodized part can be extruded or not. Anodizing is irrelevant to structure.
The concern expressed earlier with the brackets used by Escape is that they are aluminum formed to shape by bending; the brackets shown in a Go Power kit manual are formed by bending, not extrusion.
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09-05-2021, 01:38 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Trailer: 2021 21NE
Posts: 516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Anodizing is a surface finish; extrusion is a process for forming material into a shape. They are unrelated concepts, and neither one describes the composition of the material (what aluminum alloy in this case) or the heat treatment. An extruded part can be anodized or not; an anodized part can be extruded or not. Anodizing is irrelevant to structure.
The concern expressed earlier with the brackets used by Escape is that they are aluminum formed to shape by bending; the brackets shown in a Go Power kit manual are formed by bending, not extrusion.
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Thanks for the clarification.
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09-08-2021, 10:09 AM
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#47
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Member
Join Date: May 2020
Location: EL DORADO HILLS, California
Trailer: 2022 Escape 19
Posts: 34
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Disappointing that this was considered a “warranty issue”. Had it been a motor vehicle it would be considered a safety recall issue and all affected vehicles should receive repairs regardless of warranty status.
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09-08-2021, 11:33 AM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Glencoe, Illinois
Trailer: 2017 F250
Posts: 140
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Wing history and flat roofs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centex
Just to note that in the complex world of aerodynamics, particularly when the referenced surface (panel) is in close proximity to another body (the trailer) which is influencing airflow rather than 'in free space / clean air', raising the back edge / tilting the surface may not yield the desired "additional downforce" (counterintuitive though that may be). In fact, it is possible that 'lift' or other undesirable forces could occur. Rather sophisticated modeling or wind-tunnel work is required to assess such effects.
Just for your consideration.
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Your observation is interesting. After all, it is why roofs sometimes fly off during hurricanes.
It is noteworthy that in early aircraft development that wings were breaking so they made them thicker. It did not work. It actually increase the force on the wings and tore them off the airplanes with greater success. Someone eventually figured it out.
I have often wondered if the panel will be torn off my fifth wheel. It’s still there, but I do inspect the brackets periodically.
The problem with trailers is they’re not cars. If they were cars, you would file a complaint with the NTSB. It might be worth a try anyway.
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09-08-2021, 12:44 PM
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Richie
The problem with trailers is they’re not cars. If they were cars, you would file a complaint with the NTSB. It might be worth a try anyway.
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The NTSB doesn't deal with cars - that's NHTSA (in the U.S.). And even though it's not a motor vehicle, any safety concern with a vehicle used on public highways can be handled by NHTSA... including trailers.
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09-08-2021, 01:05 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lanesboro, MN, between Whalan and Fountain, Minnesota
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ - (2018 Escape 5.0 sold)
Posts: 2,152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Richie
I have often wondered if the panel will be torn off my fifth wheel. It’s still there, but I do inspect the brackets periodically.
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Personally I would add a bracket to the front and rear of the front panel with VHB tape to the roof. The front at a minimum.
I just VHB taped twelve brackets to the top of our 5.0. It's easy.
Enjoy,
Perry
__________________
Those who know everything use pens. Intelligent people use pencils.
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09-08-2021, 02:50 PM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Colfax, California
Trailer: 2024 Escape 23 on order, 2022 RAM 1500 5.7L Laramie
Posts: 583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perryb67
Personally I would add a bracket to the front and rear of the front panel with VHB tape to the roof. The front at a minimum.
I just VHB taped twelve brackets to the top of our 5.0. It's easy.
Enjoy,
Perry
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Should work as long as you don’t get caught in a lemonade downpour.😁
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09-08-2021, 03:22 PM
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#52
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: crested butte, Colorado
Trailer: 2011 outfitter
Posts: 1
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Flexible?
Why don’t they use flexible panels ?
Easy to install with bonding and screws if you want. Weigh under 2 pounds.
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09-08-2021, 04:04 PM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauli
Why don’t they use flexible panels ?
Easy to install with bonding and screws if you want. Weigh under 2 pounds.
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Heat is more of an issue with flexible panels
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09-08-2021, 10:12 PM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauli
Why don’t they use flexible panels ?
Easy to install with bonding and screws if you want. Weigh under 2 pounds.
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Another problem is the roof shape - Escape models other than the 5.0/5.0TA have a raised central portion to the roof, which means panels that need to lay against the surface need to be split up to sit separately on the areas of the roof instead of just being in one big panel per end... and more panels means more wiring connections. Also, the panels on the lower areas get shaded by the central portion at low sun angles.
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09-08-2021, 11:41 PM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: East of Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2021 Escape 5.0 / 2022 F150 SuperCab
Posts: 2,864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Another problem is the roof shape - Escape models other than the 5.0/5.0TA have a raised central portion to the roof....
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FYI the current generation 5.0TA shares the raised center roof section common to other models (though perhaps not quite as pronounced); that notwithstanding some folks have installed aftermarket 'flexible' arrays on that model as they have on the others.
Methinks there are other good reasons that RV manufacturers in general haven't elected to offer flexible panels as an OE option (there's bound to be exceptions).
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09-09-2021, 08:32 AM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 2013 19' & 2013 15B
Posts: 2,634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Another problem is the roof shape - Escape models other than the 5.0/5.0TA have a raised central portion to the roof, which means panels that need to lay against the surface need to be split up to sit separately on the areas of the roof instead of just being in one big panel per end... and more panels means more wiring connections. Also, the panels on the lower areas get shaded by the central portion at low sun angles.
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On my 15B the small roof area and the raised central portion of the roof really limited the location and size of flexible panels that could be used. But in the end it worked out fine and the flexible panels have functioned flawlessly now for nearly 4 years. I have a solid panel on my 19' and flexible panels on the 15B. I would not go back to using solid panels again.
__________________
2013 19' \ 2013 15B, 2020 Toyota 4Runner TRD Offroad
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it." - 1907, Maurice Switzer
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09-09-2021, 08:44 AM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lanesboro, MN, between Whalan and Fountain, Minnesota
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ - (2018 Escape 5.0 sold)
Posts: 2,152
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I belong to a few solar forums. While flexibles seen to work fine for those in northern climates they have a higher failure rate for those living in mid to lower US with more sun and heat. Because of this failure rate you want to make sure you wire them in parallel, not series. In series a panel failure will take all of them down, leaving you with little to no solar, whereas in parallel the rest will still function. Two things to consider when making the choice.
If we just mainly camped in Minnesota or other northern areas, I'd have installed flexibles, but our camper spends too much time in higher heat/sun areas, and have no problems with rigid panels.
Enjoy,
Perry
__________________
Those who know everything use pens. Intelligent people use pencils.
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09-09-2021, 10:39 AM
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,381
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I plan on portable light weight panels to augment the roof panels in a future expansion
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