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Old 07-04-2021, 01:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ooshkaboo View Post
I suppose most everywhere has some sort of a downside to it.

The 2021 hurricane season has begun.

As for California, earlier this year I read that the fire season there was actually worse before European settlement of the state. An average of six million acres burned each year then, compared to worst-case four million burned in recent years. I'm curious as to how the experts know this.
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Old 07-04-2021, 03:11 PM   #22
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The 2021 hurricane season has begun.

As for California, earlier this year I read that the fire season there was actually worse before European settlement of the state. An average of six million acres burned each year then, compared to worst-case four million burned in recent years. I'm curious as to how the experts know this.
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Old 07-04-2021, 04:27 PM   #23
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It really cleared things up for me as to why the fires in California can become so wicked so fast.
I know I’d be doing my best to clear out anything that combustible anywhere near my home.
Here there are always threats of floods, tornados and the hell of winter. I suppose most everywhere has some sort of a downside to it.
I am not sure if the fire intensity in the West can all be laid on eucalyptus. The increase in temperatures, low precipitation and the fire control practices (limiting the burns over the years) are the prime reasons. This winter was very dry for the Western part of the country. The water levels are in 25-50% of normal range. So, the risk of fires is high and the ability to fight it will be further reduced.

By the way, eucalyptus is hardly the only foreign plant that adds to the fire. Scotch broom along the highways in Washington (beautiful) is an import from England (Scotland?) that’s highly flammable. But, the train has left the station on a lot of these plants.
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Old 07-04-2021, 09:15 PM   #24
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I am not sure if the fire intensity in the West can all be laid on eucalyptus. The increase in temperatures, low precipitation and the fire control practices (limiting the burns over the years) are the prime reasons. This winter was very dry for the Western part of the country. The water levels are in 25-50% of normal range. So, the risk of fires is high and the ability to fight it will be further reduced.

By the way, eucalyptus is hardly the only foreign plant that adds to the fire. Scotch broom along the highways in Washington (beautiful) is an import from England (Scotland?) that’s highly flammable. But, the train has left the station on a lot of these plants.
Ok cool, congratulations on obtaining a degree in horticulture. I’m just making some observations and I as the others don’t have all the answers.

As a kid in school, I’ve heard the “experts” say many things. I was told to crawl under my desk in the event of a nuke attack. Even was told the world was going to freeze over by now, which was later revised to Florida will be halfway underwater by now.

Yes, you’re right, from what little I do know about it, the environmentalist did do a number on common sense forestry in California, but it seems they can’t admit when they’re wrong.

Thx for clearing everything up tho…
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Old 07-04-2021, 10:38 PM   #25
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Do any of the western states ban the private sale or use of fireworks? I would think they would during fire season regardless of Independence Day.
At least in Washington, the fireworks that cause the biggest problems- rockets and firecrackers- are only sold at the reservations and only legal to use there. The problem is absolutely no enforcement in a lot of jurisdictions. (Some do ban them and actually try to follow through.)

So banning isn't the problem- enforcing the ban is.

I'm spending the 4th at my sister's in central Oregon- hot, dry, very high fire danger. I drove through quite a few burned acres to get here. So far not a peep out of fireworks and I hope it stays that way. Oregon has six fires on the big fire map- a few days ago they had one.
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Old 07-04-2021, 10:40 PM   #26
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It is not just California, the fire risk and fires are prevalent the Western parts of the US as well as Canada. Everyone who lives in the conditions with high fire risk gets the degree in horticulture as it relates to the fires.

This is no different than people living in tornado alley becoming good at assessing the tornado situations.
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Old 07-05-2021, 02:31 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Ooshkaboo View Post
It really cleared things up for me as to why the fires in California can become so wicked so fast.
I know I’d be doing my best to clear out anything that combustible anywhere near my home.
Here there are always threats of floods, tornados and the hell of winter. I suppose most everywhere has some sort of a downside to it.
To be clear: our fires in Northern California (around Mt. Shasta) have nothing to do with eucalyptus trees... those are indigenous redwoods, firs, and the like.
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Old 07-05-2021, 07:27 PM   #28
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Angry Smokey the bear

In the past there was no fire control in the Western forests. Because fire was a normal part of the life of the forest. In attempting to manage the forests we stop the natural cycle the fire thinning the forests. Replaced it with Smokey the bear in other words stopping every fire. We now have so much old dead growth on the forest floor that when we do have a fire you can't stop it it creates a life of its own. Starting recently they began to start thinning the forest out and try to restore some of the natural cycle with controlled burns. The problem too little too late. We now find ourselves in the perfect conditions for major fires. An extended drought, increasing temperatures and a population that wants to use the forests for more recreational uses. We will be guaranteed an extended and horrific fire season.
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Old 07-05-2021, 08:35 PM   #29
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To be clear: our fires in Northern California (around Mt. Shasta) have nothing to do with eucalyptus trees... those are indigenous redwoods, firs, and the like.
This all started about a town in Canada that had a terrible fire possibly caused by a train going by…

It’s really been about more than one area.

To be clear-
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Old 07-06-2021, 09:41 AM   #30
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Here in the Tulsa area we are having a cooler and wetter summer than normal. Some lakes are more than 10 feet above normal level. Temps have barely been into the 90s a few days, mostly it's been in the 80s for highs. Usually I'm eager to head north or to the mountains to escape the upper 90s and low 100s by now, but this year it just hasn't been hot enough to motivate me to go farther than one of our own nearby lakes. Really our entire spring has been like this, cool and damp, from March until now.

I think it's helpful to remember that when we talk of heat domes and dry conditions, or cool zones with wet conditions, we are talking about weather, which is both localized and temporary in duration. Given time, it will change... and change again... and again...
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Old 07-06-2021, 01:52 PM   #31
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We heard about the heat and fires in the NW (BC included) and our hearts truly go out to the people in Lytton. To lose an entire village/town is unimaginable and reading about the lives lost to the heat was heartbreaking. It doesn't take much in these days of dry climate and vegetation to spark a fire (lightning certainly takes its toll) and even areas that think they're relatively safe probably aren't. We just hope everyone stays safe.
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Old 07-06-2021, 02:22 PM   #32
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This terrible forest fire news coming from the great northwest and down through California is so frightening, so lethal, is near impossible for us who have not come face to face with it to compute. We can only be grateful for our luck.

Last month I got a very tiny taste of the ramifications, from our house insurance people. They claimed we were now considered to be in a “fire zone” and they arbitrarily canceled our house fire insurance.

We are in an extended drought here. The ground is concrete, all growth is suffering, the water table is dropping, the Rio Grande is not dry but its close. But, in a fire zone? Not possible. Maybe sure, in the nearby East Mountains, where the forest is. But my house is on the western edge of the eastern plains. Anyone who has driven the length of I-40 from Texas knows that is at best, un-forested, wide open, quazi-desert, home not to potential firewood, but to dispersed choya.

So I challenged the insurance company on their assessment. Their agent weren’t from around here. To his credit in response he got in touch with our local fire department chief, who confirmed our location is not considered a fire zone. Case closed.

That don’t mean we don’t have our concerns. In this climate? A mere 7 miles away there is the biggest cluster of fireworks stores you’d ever want to see. Guessing that town is a big stop-over for them who want to buy in bulk and sell fireworks elsewhere.

My town has placed restrictions on fireworks. Fortunately, judging by my dog’s demeanor, it seems to be working.
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Old 07-06-2021, 09:47 PM   #33
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Loss of insurance is an unnerving fact that many people on the West Coast are facing. Here in the Santa Cruz Mountains, people have lost their insurance because of their location and must rely on the California Fair Plan Insurance which is pretty basic and expensive. Even those of us who have created 'defensible space' are under scrutiny since many homes where homeowners took the proper precautions burned anyway thanks to flying embers. State Farm and some other insurance companies have partnered with the private company Wildfire Defense Systems to come in during an active wildfire and employ measures to save insured structures (e.g., sprinklers, gel/foam, removing combustible materials, etc.). Some people say it's like closing the barn door after the cows have gone but, these days, any little bit helps.
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Old 07-06-2021, 09:52 PM   #34
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State Farm and some other insurance companies have partnered with the private company Wildfire Defense Systems to come in during an active wildfire and employ measures to save insured structures (e.g., sprinklers, gel/foam, removing combustible materials, etc.).
I bet State Farm isn’t the carrier for their life insurance!
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Old 07-06-2021, 11:43 PM   #35
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To me, allowing individuals to shoot fireworks is stupid. I used to do it as a kid too so understand the attraction. But there are too many irresponsible people out there that will end up starting fires. I admit I am not against fireworks just because of the fire risk but also the noise and litter. If you want to see fireworks, go see a professional put on a show.

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Really sorry to see what’s increasingly happening with the heat, precipitation and fires. I cannot imagine what it might be like to have the home threatened with incineration, let alone incinerated.

Having just returned from PNW with our camper, it is hard to imagine the temperatures one is reading about.

The water levels here too are 50% or less. But, the sales of firecrackers have not abated, neither has watering of lawns. The lawmakers have outlawed mask restrictions but not the firecrackers!
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Old 07-07-2021, 09:38 AM   #36
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Loss of insurance is an unnerving fact that many people on the West Coast are facing. Here in the Santa Cruz Mountains, people have lost their insurance because of their location and must rely on the California Fair Plan Insurance which is pretty basic and expensive. Even those of us who have created 'defensible space' are under scrutiny since many homes where homeowners took the proper precautions burned anyway thanks to flying embers. State Farm and some other insurance companies have partnered with the private company Wildfire Defense Systems to come in during an active wildfire and employ measures to save insured structures (e.g., sprinklers, gel/foam, removing combustible materials, etc.). Some people say it's like closing the barn door after the cows have gone but, these days, any little bit helps.
At one time here where the Mississippi and Missouri rivers flood often, there would be people insisting on living in the flood plains. Even had small communities with their entire homes up on ten foot post.
Just like clockwork the river would rise and of course the levees wouldn’t hold and up comes the water and there goes the homes. The ones that didn’t float down the river were destroyed.
Lives lost and millions of dollars swept away.

Finally the insurance companies no longer would cover the homes and the government was also done with it.
Those communities are no longer there, the people had to relocate to higher grounds.
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:29 AM   #37
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In NJ years ago developers built homes along the Passaic River flood plain. They knew what they were doing. I was speaking with one of those home owners once who told me he didn't mind the flooding because the government always came to his rescue to cover his losses.
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:30 AM   #38
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What I would like to know is, when are people going to start insisting that their new homes be built out of steel-reinforced concrete instead of wood framing, at least on the exterior? We have the tech to build houses that can't be caught on fire from outside. Cost used to be maybe 10% higher than wood, but with the skyrocketing wood prices I doubt that's still the case.
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:40 AM   #39
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What I would like to know is, when are people going to start insisting that their new homes be built out of steel-reinforced concrete

Like the Florida condo?
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Old 07-07-2021, 11:20 AM   #40
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Steel-reinforced concrete is being used for hurricane resistance in some new houses in Florida. I saw a photo of one such house that was the only survivor along the coast in Mexico Beach after Hurricane Michael came through a few years ago.
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