Cheap lithium

[Ron in BC]

The Renogy has an interesting feature, the ability to put it in "shelf mode."

Ron

[gbaglo]

Heard an expert on the radio a couple days ago say that demand for lithium is expected to rise 300 per cent in coming years and that the U.S. has one lithium mine. China is a main supplier. I wouldn't hold my breath, waiting for prices to come down further.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I have installed a pair of their 12V 206AH batts that were $1029 each (rumor has it soon to go up), this provides 5200 watt*hours.

John posted ^this^ in reference to the pair of SOK batteries he installed, a great product I'm sure.

Just FYI, another alternative to that pair of SOKs is this BestGo 400ah/5.12kW battery, the total capacity and $/watt*hour price is virtually identical.

There are obviously differences in packaging, etc, which may make one more attractive than the other depending on one's system and installation goals.

Will Prowse gave the BestGo a rave positive review in a YouTube teardown but for reasons apparently relating to his personal revenue goals he removed that video from his site (see this thread with responses by Prowse on his forum). Yes, IMO it's very irritating (and telling) that Prowse removes informative reviews from his YouTube channel when they don't meet his personal revenue-generating targets .

Rubicon327/Dave writes about his choice of the BestGo and his installation in this forum thread.

FWIW my experience with ECPC, the BestGo US vendor, has been very good, they're quick to respond to tech questions both by phone and email. IMO they are very knowledgeable and forthright about their products.

Not suggesting that one is better than the other (2x206Ah SOK vs 1x400Ah BestGo), just that they are two competitive alternatives offering pros and cons, each worth considering on their own merits.

Have Fun!

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

The Renogy has an interesting feature, the ability to put it in "shelf mode."

Ron

Pure speculation on my part - but I am guessing the "shelf mode" push button - which is detachable - reduces the BMS activity so as to minimize the parasitic current draw. There still has to be a tiny bit of current to run the "shelf mode sensor" so it knows when the button is pushed again to turn things back on. It also seems to detach the main terminals from the load/charging circuit, but it is not terribly convenient to use this push button on a regular basis, so I will be installing a rotary On-Off heavy duty switch similar to what others have done.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Pure speculation on my part - but I am guessing the "shelf mode" push button - which is detachable - reduces the BMS activity so as to minimize the parasitic current draw.

That seems like a reasonable guess to me. Some EV models have had problems with the 12 volt battery (which is just like the 12 V battery in conventional cars) getting discharged while the EV is parked without being plugged in... due to BMS activity which is powered by the 12 volt battery.

A poorly designed BMS in a self-contained lithium-ion battery unit, which powers the BMS itself, risks killing the cells in its attempt to protect them.

[PatrickTXFL]

We bought a cheap Amazon battery 100ah battery that did the job at basically doubling available power in a wet cell to lithium upgrade. Wet cell had a couple years on it and was only 80ah to start with. Amperetime was name brand did a great job on out last summer run. Since sold trailer but still going strong. Today I might consider the Chins smart version if dealing with freezing weather.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Renogy has a sale right now on their 'smart' LiFePO4 batts, with integrated bluetooth.

[PatrickTXFL]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

Renogy has a sale right now on their 'smart' LiFePO4 batts, with integrated bluetooth.

The Chins smart is Bluetooth and Heaters so you can always charge. Without heaters you have to figure out how to warm up the battery to get low temp protection to allow charging to start. About $200 cheaper as well.

[Semievolved]

not advisable to float lfp batteries. Better plan is to get them at between 40 and 80% soc and disconnect from all potential drains. When you're ready to go again just make sure battery is warm and then charge it fully. If you're going to leave it for more than 6 months, it's recommended to take thru a charge cycle every 6 months.

[RangerMan]

I've added several mods and devices to my trailer that I didn't really need but I'm going to draw the line at lithium batteries.

I wouldn't know a Lith battery if I saw one but from all the things I've read here on the forum, there are supporting devices to include/replace in the changeover, plus heat, cold, wiring issues.

I only use mine for fishing trips, so it makes no sense for me (that rarely stops me, but this time...). I use the non-elec sites at COE parks (cheaper) when available and my Trojan AGM's have performed flawlessly so I'll stick with them.

[dstreight]

Its just another tool, like all tools, to be used...if it fits the application.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by RangerMan

... my Trojan AGM's have performed flawlessly so I'll stick with them.

I loved my AGM's for 7 years until we both got older for some reason. And since I couldn't lift lead blocks any more I jumped for a couple of cheap lithiums. The lithium I now use for my trolling motor is great - all the advantages and none of the disadvantages since I can charge it at home with a dedicated charger. The trailer lithiums are another story. They lived all winter outside in the trailer, disconnected, awaiting a thaw so I can experiment with them. First order of business will be to see if they survived the -10F temps we had last month. Stay tuned...

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by RangerMan

I wouldn't know a Lith battery if I saw one

You sure would if you picked it up.

Originally Posted by alanmalk

The lithium I now use for my trolling motor is great - all the advantages and none of the disadvantages since I can charge it at home with a dedicated charger.

Yes, what a difference using them for a trolling motor. They just go and go compared to LA. And much safer getting into the boat with it. Lighter and easy to handle.

I have a 100 AH for my aluminum boat and a 50 AH for my kayak. I top them up with a spare solar panel or with the 110V charger if I have power. They make a good backup for my two 12V batteries in the unlikely event that both fail.

Ron

[RangerMan]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

You sure would if you picked it up.

Never lifted a lith but I got to agree about these AGM's I have. Heavy suckers.

I bought them about a week or so before I headed for pickup and when the man offered to load them in my truck for me, I said "Never mind, I can handle it"

After I grabbed the strap to lift it, I set it back down and asked if the offer was still open.

[John in Santa Cruz]

heh, you should try loading or carrying a couple GC2 golf cart batts. they run about 65 lbs each, and you need a special 'golf cart' carry strap to pick them up. I was going to carry two, one in each hand, across my driveway to my trailer (maybe 100 feet), got about 4 steps and decided to put one down and carry them one at a time, much easier.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by DanK

With all the cheaper lithium battery options available I'm looking for advice from anyone who has gone that route . I'm seeing on Amazon a variety of brands in the $300 to $500 dollar range . Does anyone use these and if so what is your experience with them

I ordered one of these today.

CHINS Smart 12V 100AH LiFePO4 Battery, Support Low Temperature Charging (-31°F), Built-in 100A BMS, 2000+ Cycles, Mobile Phone APP Monitors Battery SOC Data

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKFh7eXeY-s

I'm adding an inverter to my trailer. My plan is to leave the dual 6 volt batteries as currently wired. Wire the inverter directly to the Chins lithium battery and charge the Chins off the solar charge controller and a DC to DC charger. The DC to DC charger should only activate when the dual 6 volt batteries are charging. This way I don't have to change out any of the other current 12 volt components.

[John in Santa Cruz]

that sounds overly complicated, two differing sets of batteries.

awful schematic, but this is my current wiring. The unnamed solid red and black vertical rectangles are bus bars with 3/8" studs. Looking at it now, I guess I left out the chassis ground, thats attached to the black/ground output of the WFCO.

The heaviest wire shown is AWG #4, the medium heavy is AWG #6, the rest is #8 except the thinnest stuff (the breakaway switch) is #10

The WFCO has its original power converter swapped out in favor of a PD4655LI, which outputs a steady 50+ amps into the 12V 412 AH lithium stack.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

that sounds overly complicated, two differing sets of batteries.

awful schematic, but this is my current wiring. The unnamed solid red and black vertical rectangles are bus bars with 3/8" studs. Looking at it now, I guess I left out the chassis ground, thats attached to the black/ground output of the WFCO.

The heaviest wire shown is AWG #4, the medium heavy is AWG #6, the rest is #8 except the thinnest stuff (the breakaway switch) is #10

The WFCO has its original power converter swapped out in favor of a PD4655LI, which outputs a steady 50+ amps into the 12V 412 AH lithium stack.

My thought it actually simplifies the wiring. The inverter on the lithium battery will be completely separate from the existing trailer 12 volt wiring. The solar charge controller already has outputs for two batteries. By adding a DC to DC charger to charge the Chins, I don't need to swap out anything in the WFCO Power Center. I'd need a DC to DC charger if I went all lithium to charge from the tow vehicle. I don't need to swap out anything in the WFCO Power Center. And I don't need to pull out two perfectly good 6 volt batteries.

[John in Santa Cruz]

I don't use an inverter, other than very occasional use of a portable 400W max.

my main concert for Lithium was running a DC compressor fridge, wanting to be able to run it for up to a week without sunshine. 400AH of Lithium should easily do this, and still have enough power for everything else (lights, water pump, fan).

[DanK]

Thanks for the responses, I have broken down and gone with the renogy 100ah smart battery, on sale for $549 direct from renogy. It is to be used as my trolling motor battery and if I have no problems with it after a year I will buy 2 for the trailer.