composting toilet versus conventional

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

You and Leo are trading insults. Be glad all I did was delete some posts.

Go ahead. What was my insult?

[salmo7000]

I’m not about to enter into the environmental debate here… been there, done that, not doing it again. My reply is for the OP, to help them figure out if the composting toilet is the right option for them. For me, the cost would not be worth whatever advantage it might impart, in terms of length of time a person can boondock in one spot without having to move. With proper and careful management, a black tank in an Escape can last up to 2 weeks with 2 people. With that same careful and proper management, horror stories related to black tanks that I’ve read, including odors, formation of “poop pyramids”, TP stuck everywhere, accidental sewer hose disconnections, etc. are easily avoided. I have found use and management of the black tank one of the easiest and simplest parts of using my Escape. Dumping it for this first time RV owner has been a piece of cake and never unpleasant or icky. Seriously. It’s like hook the sewer hose to trailer, make sure the connection is tight, stick the other end into the dump station, and open the valve. Everything exits in a big whoosh, with no smell or visual. Then dump the gray tank. When that’s done, unhook the sewer hose, store it, and off you go. The whole process should not take more than 10 minutes, and most of that is waiting for the gray tank to drain.

I scratch my head wondering how problems with black tanks and their management happen. It’s not rocket science.

So again, for me the cost of the composting toilet option would not be justifiable, and I would definitely prioritize other options over that one. I’m a dedicated boondocker, by the way. I almost always camp near a lake, river, or stream, so I fill up a gallon jug and use that water for flushing, thereby extending what I have in my freshwater tank. Again, it is entirely possible to hang out in 1 spot for 14 days without running out of water or black and gray tank capacity, as I’ve done it multiple times. Longer than that might be a challenge though, and yeah, by day 14 it is time to move and find a dump station. I’m almost always ready to leave by then anyway, so it works.

Hope this helps with the decision!!

[HABBERDABBER]

Don't the composting toilets have an exhaust fan that runs 24/7 to deal with the odor and evaporation of liquid waste. That's a continuous parasitic drain on the batteries?

A buddy with an off the grid cottage had a composter, solar panels and large battery bank up in Northern Wisconsin. Snow on the panels and a record cloudy stretch depleted his batteries as his fan ran continuously. A cold snap froze his batteries. Some $$thousands $$ worth of batteries were KAPUT!

Live & learn.

[Ooshkaboo]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Go ahead. What was my insult?

I wasn’t offended, and I do like much of your humor…

I have seen it over and over where it’s pointed out the harm done by improper disposal of waste done by those who have composting toilets. In all of these threads and in other places it always gets to a pro composter being shamed for disposal practices. Me, I’m sure the sewage worker is completely right about the hazards it creates. No more disposable diapers and walking dogs, along with composting toilets would be the logical way to go.

But again, mothers and fathers are tossing out baby diapers every day, them along with many dog owners doing the same are not being told to stop this practice. Why would a person who uses the composting method be so hated by some.
I would like to know what is the difference between those people and the Rv community who choose to compost.

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by Ooshkaboo

I wasn’t offended, and I do like much of your humor…

I have seen it over and over where it’s pointed out the harm done by improper disposal of waste done by those who have composting toilets. In all of these threads and in other places it always gets to a pro composter being shamed for disposal practices. Me, I’m sure the sewage worker is completely right about the hazards it creates. No more disposable diapers and walking dogs, along with composting toilets would be the logical way to go.

But again, mothers and fathers are tossing out baby diapers every day, them along with many dog owners doing the same are not being told to stop this practice. Why would a person who uses the composting method be so hated by some.
I would like to know what is the difference between those people and the Rv community who choose to compost.

That is the problem....there is no difference! That does not mean it is ok to dispose of partially composted pathogenic human waste in a dumpster or on the ground! If you can do it right and have some data to show it...go for it! There is a reason we don't empty our chamber pots by throwing the waste out the window into the gutter. PEOPLE GET SICK! Disposable diapers are bad on so many different levels. Don't use disposable diapers! Dog poop is a problem! Less about the pathogens and more about the nutrient pollution. Bury it in the woods, don't put it in a plastic bag in the dumpster.

I am all for composting on many different levels. I even thought about composting in my RV myself. The problem is that it does take knowledge, planning and monitoring of the outcomes to attain good results. A black tank and a dump station are so much more reliable to get good treatment of waste that it does not make any sense to me to attempt composting in an RV. To really do it right you need additional containers to hold the waste for good composting....do you really want to do this?

If you are hell bent on composting in your RV don't put the waste in a dumpster...Here are some options: bring it home and put it in your home septic or composting system, bring it to a wastewater treatment plant, follow the rules to destroy all pathogens(3 days of temps over 104 degrees F if I remember right) then spread it on your flower garden at home, dig a hole in a spot where there is no groundwater and no chance of runoff and bury it at least 3 ft deep, oh and don't forget about the urine....it needs the same treatment as above. Seems like a lot of work....good luck.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by salmo7000

With proper and careful management, a black tank in an Escape can last up to 2 weeks with 2 people. With that same careful and proper management, horror stories related to black tanks that I’ve read, including odors, formation of “poop pyramids”, TP stuck everywhere, accidental sewer hose disconnections, etc. are easily avoided.

I agree. While I've seen shore based composting toilets work well I've never been inclined to want one but if others like them, more power to them. I can't get too excited about the merits of whether the disposal is a large problem or not when everyday I see large amounts of dog poop thrown in dumpsters.

Yes, a lot has been made of all the problems that you listed. I think sometimes things are blown out of proportion by folks in the re-telling of stories they've heard from someone else. I'm sure each of the items you listed has happened to someone but everyone using their black tank doesn't have them all happen regularly. We don't use any deodorant but routinely dump a bucket of water or use the hose at a dump station to give the tank a flush after dumping.

I made a portable 5 gal. tank just in case we ever needed it in Baja etc. Carried it for several years and then stopped bothering to carry it.

I agree, with careful mindful use of the black tank it's usually time to move on before it's full.

Ron

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I agree, with careful mindful use of the black tank it's usually time to move on before it's full.
Ron

Besides, you'll need to get more beer.

[Crazypill]

I went with a composting toilet in mine. I intend to toss a few red wigglers (eisenia fetida) in there each time I empty it. They should happily thrive while helping to speed things along. Just gotta remember to be gentle when spinning the agitator so they don't get pulverized! LOL

[Iowa Dave]

I’m sorry I could not help myself. There was a time when I taught fishing merit badge and a couple of my boys earned the badge and had to tell what they used to catch some fish

https://www.google.com/search?q=res+...2cZssgJzc,st:0

Iowa Dave

[oldwave]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

As a wastewater treatment plant operator...my concern is public health NOT environmental. When I use a dump station the waste gets treated so as not to be a public health hazard. Unfortunately the research I have done shows that the waste generated by "composting toilets" in RVs typically does not get fully treated and can still pose a health hazard both for pathogens and nutrient loads. IF you dispose of the urine and partially composted feces in a place that will provide futher treatment to make it safe...OK but then why bother If you think spreading it on the ground is OK or putting it in a dumpster is OK you are sadly mistaken....DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOUR WASTE IS NO LONGER A HAZARD? DO YOU KNOW HOW TO TELL? Composting is a valid treatment technique but an RV is usually not the right environment and many people do not know how to tell when the job is properly complete. Sorry unless you really know all the ins and outs of this method you are fooling yourself and endangering others....

I have to agree having worked for the National Park Service for 30 years people dispose of waste in inappropriate places all over our resources. Many people do not have the skill or facilities to truly compost the waste. They dispose it in garbage containers. And yes pet waste goes in there too, I've heard it all. At least with a dump station the waste has a chance of ending up at a sewage treatment facility. Some parks do offer containers for disposal of poo bags but they are aimed at backpackers in the back country. This has been discussed ad nauseam . All done now.

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by Crazypill

I'm learning stuff.

Please pass the butter.

[Steve Clark]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

I'm learning stuff.

Please pass the butter.

Butter and salt go great with red wigglers!

[Jersey]

Originally Posted by tedtucci

Hello again,

We are considering a composting toilet for our 5.0. We would love to hear from people out there who have used a composting toilet. This is our first travel trailer with a toilet so black water tanks would also be new to us.
Any advice to novices in this area would be appreciated!

Dumping the black tank isn’t bad at all. I was researching composting toilets before I went rv-ing because I thought it’d be terrible. Now I think being able to dump a conventional black tank is for sure the way to go.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by JudyS

Doesn’t it then go into the black tank? And you risk the black tank freezing?

As all ready mentioned the black tank is inside the trailer. Urine has a freezing point lower than water, to begin with (as low as -20C). If you keep a jug of RV antifreeze next to the toilet and use that to create your odor seal, and flush the toilet you further reduce the freezing point of the fluids in the tank. Further, the mechanism of freezing for the urine RV antifreeze mixture is different than that of pure water. The danger with freezing water molecules will arrange themselves to take up more space and expand. The salts in the urine and the RV antifreeze help reduce or eliminate water becoming an expanding solid. So, even frozen it is more like a 'Slushy' than a damage inducing expanding chunk of ice.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Crazypill

I went with a composting toilet in mine. I intend to toss a few red wigglers (eisenia fetida) in there each time I empty it. They should happily thrive while helping to speed things along. Just gotta remember to be gentle when spinning the agitator so they don't get pulverized! LOL

How many months are you going to stop using your toilet before dumping it? Worms or not, you are still going to be dumping uncomposted fecal matter, if you use it right up until the point you dump it.

Composting toilets are great for tiny homes on property where there is the opportunity to complete the composting, properly using 2 additional composing bins and lime. Most RV users aren't going to take these additional steps.

I'm all for composting. At my house I have a brush pile, yard waste composting pile and a composting bin for my kitchen scraps. What I don't do is divert my fecal matter from the system designed to process it, into a landfill.

From compostingtoiletsusa.com:

You need two compost bins to compost human waste. Use one at a time. When the first bin is full, start using the second bin. When the second bin is full, the first one should be ready for the plants.

Add lime to the compost bin. This will drastically reduce the time it has to sit, before being safe to bury or spread on non-edible plants. Use roughly 3% lime to total waste volume – i.e. if you have a full 50 gallon drum of waste, use 1.5 gallons of lime. These numbers are very approximate. With lime added, the bin needs to sit undisturbed, without adding new material, for 120 days according to the BC Composting Toilets Guidelines. This should kill all pathogens. Without the lime, the time frame is much more uncertain, and varies from 6 months to 2 years, according to various sources.

You must never put composted human waste on edible plants, because of the small chance that dangerous bacteria is still present. Always use human waste compost on non-edible plants only, or bury it.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Viajante

I'm always perplexed by the animosity expressed toward composting toilets and the people wo have them in their trailers. But I've never seen any animosity toward people who have Escape 15A or 17A trailers.

Composting toilets in mobile application more often than not divert fecal matter from systems designed to properly process them and put them with substantial additional bulk (saw dust, coconut husks, etc) into our landfills.

LANDFILLS: WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF SPACE

First, we’ll mention the natural stuff: Food and yard trimmings make up roughly 34% of all MSW. Under the right conditions, this would enter into a composting process, where it decomposes to become nutrient-rich organic material, often called “black gold” by farmers and gardeners for its benefits.

In a landfill, however, food, grass clippings, and other organic material are densely packed and thus decompose with the absence of oxygen (anaerobically). For that reason, waste—both organic and inorganic—breaks down significantly slower in landfills than it would in nature.

Through its oxygen-deprived breakdown, organic material emits methane as a byproduct, making landfills volatile and gassy. But the downstream impact may cost even more—and our discarded technology and something called “forever chemicals” are to blame.

While the methane goes up into the atmosphere, the poisonous, wastewater sludge called leachate goes down—and while landfills effectively work like a big sink for liquids, it’s impossible for operators to contain it all.

Originally Posted by Viajante

Apparently composting toilets are worse than having none at all.

If someone dumps the solids from their 'Composting' toilet with all its substantial additional bulk (saw dust, coconut husks, etc) into a dumpster or trash can and it ends up taking valuable space in a landfill, yes, the are worse than none at all.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by AndNeitherDoI

For example, fiberglass doesn't decompose. So all of our Escape trailers are going in to the landfill to stay. The best environmental impact we could all make is to not get an RV.

I'm willing to bet very few fiberglass RVs actually end up in landfills. The very fact that fiberglass is here to stay, means even decades old fiberglass RV shells are sought after and refurbished (recycled) and given a new life.

For example U-haul fiberglass campers from the early 80s.

Wanted U-haul fiberglass camper

Originally Posted by AndNeitherDoI

And for the last part, no one thinks they're cool for their toilet. I don't even know where this comes from.

That comes from people thinking they are doing something that is positive for the environment with a 'composting' toilet. More often than not it is just the opposite, because the waste never gets properly composted.

[CarolynStride]

I got the Airhead and like it very much. I have dumped liquid a number of times but not even close to needing to dump the cococoir.
2 friends had a time figuring where to dump before a weekend.
I primarily boondock, and it is a joy to not need to dump.

Oh, and I think I am very cool for having it.

[advenas]

For the OP.....I have a compost toilet. Works great. I chose one because of it's convenience, simplicity and ease of maintenance. Plus no waiting in line for a dump station or searching for one. No finding out the person in front of me had a leaky sewer hose or an outright disconnect who didn't clean up afterwards. Dumpster is easy peasy. Evidently dumping a black tank is too especially on the side of the road or just before leaving a boondock spot both of which I've found all too often. So much for proper disposal. Haven't encountered any of these issues with a compost toilet although I'm sure they exist. Is it better? Depends on one's view I guess.

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by CarolynStride

Oh, and I think I am very cool for having it.

Good to know!