composting toilet versus conventional

[cedar688]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

As a wastewater treatment plant operator...my concern is public health NOT environmental. When I use a dump station the waste gets treated so as not to be a public health hazard. Unfortunately the research I have done shows that the waste generated by "composting toilets" in RVs typically does not get fully treated and can still pose a health hazard both for pathogens and nutrient loads. IF you dispose of the urine and partially composted feces in a place that will provide futher treatment to make it safe...OK but then why bother If you think spreading it on the ground is OK or putting it in a dumpster is OK you are sadly mistaken....DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOUR WASTE IS NO LONGER A HAZARD? DO YOU KNOW HOW TO TELL? Composting is a valid treatment technique but an RV is usually not the right environment and many people do not know how to tell when the job is properly complete. Sorry unless you really know all the ins and outs of this method you are fooling yourself and endangering others....

This is good information. Thank you for sharing your expertise. I bought a book as a resource " The Humanure Handbook" which is a guide on composting human waste. I plan to properly compost the solid material from my composting toilet on my property. I hope more RV compost toilet owners will consider this option.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by advenas

For the OP.....I have a compost toilet. Works great. I chose one because of it's convenience, simplicity and ease of maintenance. ... Dumpster is easy peasy.

Exactly what I was talking about. No composting going on when you put it in dumpster.

Stop calling them a 'composting' toilet. And get any thought of them being better for the environment out of your head.

LANDFILLS: WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF SPACE

The uncaptured methane, for one, is a major contributor to climate change, 84 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. In fact, 2018 numbers reflect that MSW landfills are the third-largest source (15.1 percent) of human-related methane emissions in the U.S.

That’s equivalent to more than the CO2 emissions from 20.6 million passenger vehicles driven for one year or the emissions from powering 11 million homes over the same period.
. . .
First, we’ll mention the natural stuff: Food and yard trimmings make up roughly 34% of all MSW. Under the right conditions, this would enter into a composting process, where it decomposes to become nutrient-rich organic material, often called “black gold” by farmers and gardeners for its benefits.

In a landfill, however, food, grass clippings, and other organic material are densely packed and thus decompose with the absence of oxygen (anaerobically). For that reason, waste—both organic and inorganic—breaks down significantly slower in landfills than it would in nature.

Through its oxygen-deprived breakdown, organic material emits methane as a byproduct, making landfills volatile and gassy.

[gbaglo]

I find it interesting that those who propose putting waste in the garbage think it just goes away and that they justify it by saying other people, and animals do it. At least animals have an excuse.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I find it interesting that those who propose putting waste in the garbage think it just goes away and that they justify it by saying other people, and animals do it. At least animals have an excuse.

What particularly annoying about 'composting'toilets isn't just the fecal matter going into the landfills, it is the additional bulk 'composting' material (sawdust, wood shavings, coconut husks, etc) added to it. Those added organic bulk materials make up more than 75% of the solids being put into the landfills. So it is actually worse than simply putting bags of fecal matter alone.

[JohnE3]

As AndNeitherDoI said, this is a heated topic.

However, I think that, for the most part, the people who hate even the idea of composting toilets are those that don't have them, and those that think they're the greatest thing ever, are those that have them... go figure!

I suppose both can be abusive to the environment. But, while I've experienced the stench of improperly dumped blackwater tanks many times, I've never found a bag from a composting toilette... although I'm sure they're around. And how many tenters carry their poop out, or do they just burry it? I'm more concerned about chemicals, than I am about our landfills being filled up with peat-moss and coco coir; not really the biggest concern at an operational municipal dump. Never mind the health risk present within a 3 meter radius of a blackwater disposal sight... watch where you step! I've seen 2 black tanks dumped on the ground (or shoes) through errors, and heard what I suspect was a third, but didn't turn around to find out; maybe it was just grey.

So it's probably evident by now that I'm a fan of composting toilettes, and yes, I've got one. But like most of us that have switched to a composting toilette, I've had flush toilettes before I did. I haven't done a survey, but I suspect most (maybe not all) that have and love flush toilettes, did not have a composting toilette prior for comparison. So given this likelihood, weigh the comments as you see fit.

For my use case (which includes mostly driveways and boondocking), and my personal preferences, after much research (including environmental impact), I chose what was best for me. I won't bother presenting my arguments, or pros & cons here. There's not really anybody I need to convince. It doesn't matter to me what they prefer.

... and I to think it's cool, like CarolynStride.

[JohnE3]

tedtucci, you were never going to get only replies from those of us that own a composting toilet. They are much maligned by those that don't have them. Those of us that do, for the most part, think they're great!

Best to do your own research on the web to see what you're trading that nasty blackwater for. If you want an account of what I see are the advantages and disadvantages, feel free to PM me.

Cheers,
John

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by JohnE3

I'm more concerned about chemicals, than I am about our landfills being filled up with peat-moss and coco coir; not really the biggest concern at an operational municipal dump.

Throwing yard waste in your regular trash also is illegal. Leaves, grass clippings and similar biodegradable materials have been banned from landfills in Ohio since 1994.

What’s Banned in Landfills: A State-by-State Guide

Where it is illegal; Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin,

As far as chemicals go, almost all tank treatments did away with using Formaldehyde years ago. The tank treatment I use has the same primary ingredient as Miracle Grow Plant Food. You don't need to add chemicals to your black tank and many people don't.

[Small but Sweet]

JohnE3 wondered what about tent campers who "just bury it". I think what I’ve learned from this discussion is that digging a hole and burying the "waste" is far preferable to adding extra organic material, sealing it all in a bag and putting it into the dumpster where it will contaminate the trash cycle, decompose anaerobically and slowly, and make worse greenhouse emissions.

Most people are unaware that on disposable diaper wrappers, there is small print saying you must separate the baby poop and flush it down the toilet. Few people read it and even fewer do it.

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by Small but Sweet

Most people are unaware that on disposable diaper wrappers, there is small print saying you must separate the baby poop and flush it down the toilet. Few people read it and even fewer do it.

The consistency of babies' poo is rarely conducive to such a procedure, methinks.

[Jack!]

Link to good a investigation and further knowledge.

https://www.livesmallridefree.com/bl...posting-toilet

[DGLP]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Exactly what I was talking about. No composting going on when you put it in dumpster.

Stop calling them a 'composting' toilet. And get any thought of them being better for the environment out of your head.

LANDFILLS: WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF SPACE

The uncaptured methane, for one, is a major contributor to climate change, 84 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. In fact, 2018 numbers reflect that MSW landfills are the third-largest source (15.1 percent) of human-related methane emissions in the U.S.

That’s equivalent to more than the CO2 emissions from 20.6 million passenger vehicles driven for one year or the emissions from powering 11 million homes over the same period.
. . .
First, we’ll mention the natural stuff: Food and yard trimmings make up roughly 34% of all MSW. Under the right conditions, this would enter into a composting process, where it decomposes to become nutrient-rich organic material, often called “black gold” by farmers and gardeners for its benefits.

In a landfill, however, food, grass clippings, and other organic material are densely packed and thus decompose with the absence of oxygen (anaerobically). For that reason, waste—both organic and inorganic—breaks down significantly slower in landfills than it would in nature.

Through its oxygen-deprived breakdown, organic material emits methane as a byproduct, making landfills volatile and gassy.

On the other hand, there may be some benefits from landfill gas:

https://www.epa.gov/lmop/benefits-la...nergy-projects

[DGLP]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

That is the problem....there is no difference! That does not mean it is ok to dispose of partially composted pathogenic human waste in a dumpster or on the ground! If you can do it right and have some data to show it...go for it! There is a reason we don't empty our chamber pots by throwing the waste out the window into the gutter. PEOPLE GET SICK! Disposable diapers are bad on so many different levels. Don't use disposable diapers! Dog poop is a problem! Less about the pathogens and more about the nutrient pollution. Bury it in the woods, don't put it in a plastic bag in the dumpster.

I am all for composting on many different levels. I even thought about composting in my RV myself. The problem is that it does take knowledge, planning and monitoring of the outcomes to attain good results. A black tank and a dump station are so much more reliable to get good treatment of waste that it does not make any sense to me to attempt composting in an RV. To really do it right you need additional containers to hold the waste for good composting....do you really want to do this?

If you are hell bent on composting in your RV don't put the waste in a dumpster...Here are some options: bring it home and put it in your home septic or composting system, bring it to a wastewater treatment plant, follow the rules to destroy all pathogens(3 days of temps over 104 degrees F if I remember right) then spread it on your flower garden at home, dig a hole in a spot where there is no groundwater and no chance of runoff and bury it at least 3 ft deep, oh and don't forget about the urine....it needs the same treatment as above. Seems like a lot of work....good luck.

Water treatment is not a "perfect solution" for managing human waste nor is any other solution. I have witnessed an expert pharmacist advise those wishing to dispose of unused opioids to crush the opioid tablets, mix them with coffee grounds (to discourage "recovery") and place them in the trash. The trash then is dumped in a landfill, which is preferable to flushing the opioids down a toilet as a landfill is lined with "impervious" liners.

Urban wastewater analysis as an effective tool for monitoring illegal drugs, iancluding new psychoactive substances, in the Eastern European region

Open Access
Published: 17 March 2020
Urban wastewater analysis as an effective tool for monitoring illegal drugs, including new psychoactive substances, in the Eastern European region

Anna Maria Sulej-Suchomska, Agnieszka Klupczynska, Paweł Dereziński, Jan Matysiak, Piotr Przybyłowski & Zenon J. Kokot
Scientific Reports volume 10, Article number: 4885 (2020) Cite this article

8922 Accesses
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Metrics details
Abstract
The use of illicit drugs causes unquestionable societal and economic damage. To implement actions aimed at combating drug abuse, it is necessary to assess illicit drug consumption patterns. The purpose of this paper was to develop, optimize, validate and apply a procedure for determining new psychoactive substances (NPSs) and classic drugs of abuse and their main metabolites in wastewater samples by using solid phase extraction (SPE) and high-performance liquid chromatography coupled with tandem mass spectrometry (HPLC-MS/MS). Moreover, detailed validation of the procedure was conducted. The developed SPE–HPLC-MS/MS procedure (within the sewage-based epidemiology strategy) allowed for the simultaneous, selective, very sensitive, accurate (recoveries ≥ 80.1%) and precise (CV ≤ 8.1%) determination of new and classic psychoactive substances in wastewater samples. This study is characterized by new scientific elements, especially in terms of the freeze-thaw and post-preparative stability of the selected psychoactive substances. This is the first time that NPSs (mephedrone and ketamine), the main metabolites of heroin (6-acetylmorphine, 6-AM) and marijuana (11-nor-9-carboxy-Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol, THC-COOH) have been detected and monitored in Poland. This study is also the first to corroborate the data available from the EMCDDA and EUROPOL report and indicates that the retail market for cocaine is expanding in Eastern Europe.

[DGLP]

Waste water has been used to monitor the SARS-CoV-2 virus and can be predictive of trends in COVID-19 infections:

https://covid19.sccgov.org/dashboard-wastewater

SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) is shed in feces by infected individuals and can be measured in wastewater. More cases of COVID-19 in the community are associated with increased levels of SARS-CoV-2 in wastewater, meaning that data from wastewater analysis can be used as an indicator of the level of transmission of COVID-19 in the community..

Wastewater analysis measures the levels of non-infectious RNA (Ribonucleic Acid) in wastewater, not the viable virus. There are no known cases of transmission resulting from exposure to wastewater.

[DGLP]

BeyThere are some big fish to fry - pardon the pun. Water is life....

https://www.economist.com/films/2022...cating-the-sea
New surveys reveal heightened concern about ocean pollution

The Economist Intelligence Unit surveyed more than 1,000 global executives and 3,000 consumers.

March 30 2021
AN INITIATIVE OF ECONOMIST IMPACT AND THE NIPPON FOUNDATION

New surveys reveal heightened concern about ocean pollution
At the eighth annual World Ocean Summit, Yohei Sasakawa, chair of The Nippon Foundation, and Lord Deighton, chair of The Economist Group, signed a memorandum of understanding for Back to Blue, a three-year collaboration between the two organisations to contribute fresh analysis, dialogue and potential solutions around ocean pollution.

As part of Back to Blue, The Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU), in cooperation with the World Ocean Initiative and in association with The Nippon Foundation, conducted two surveys in December 2020/January 2021 to uncover consumers’ and executives’ understanding of issues facing the ocean. The consumer survey encompassed more than 3,000 people around the world, with one half from generation Z (born 1997 onwards) and millennials (1981-1996) and the other half from generation X (1965-80) and baby boomers (1946-64). The business survey covered more than 1,000 global executives from a variety of sectors, including finance, food (including fishing), beverages, travel (including shipping) and tourism, and energy. The results are summarised below.

Section 1: Ocean health priorities
Most consumers are highly concerned about ocean-related issues.

83% of the general public are concerned about issues affecting the ocean.
Just over a quarter (26%) are very concerned.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Throwing yard waste in your regular trash also is illegal. Leaves, grass clippings and similar biodegradable materials have been banned from landfills in Ohio since 1994.

What’s Banned in Landfills: A State-by-State Guide

Where it is illegal; Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin,

As far as chemicals go, almost all tank treatments did away with using Formaldehyde years ago. The tank treatment I use has the same primary ingredient as Miracle Grow Plant Food. You don't need to add chemicals to your black tank and many people don't.

Originally Posted by Jack!

Link to good a investigation and further knowledge.

https://www.livesmallridefree.com/bl...posting-toilet

Interesting choices of wording in this article. In States where there is no laws against leaves, grass clippings and similar biodegradable materials in landfills he talks about composting toilet waste. Then he goes on to list several States where putting leaves, grass clippings and similar biodegradable materials in landfills is illegal, and he changes the wording to 'there are no rules or regulations against tossing a bag of human waste in the trash'. Those states would likely have told him disposing composting toilet waste with its added biodegradable materials is illegal. So, while the article is technically true, it seems intentionally misleading.

However a disclaimer on his site states:

The information on livesmallridefree.com is for entertainment and general information purposes only. The views on this website are personal opinions only.

So I guess he feels that gives him the right to be fast and free with the truth.

[HABBERDABBER]

Dane County Wisconsin, where I live, collects the methane from a huge landfill they operate, process and compress it and run the county municipal vehicles (snowplows, service trucks, etc.) with the landfill gas along with powering some electrical generators to run the landfill and other county buildings.

Some years ago an apartment complex here in town blew up and a person was killed as it was built atop an old landfill and methane had seeped into the basement and some ignition source set it off.

[JohnE3]

Separating baby poo from the diaper... I literally can't stop laughing 🤣

[JohnE3]

Still laughing 🤣

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by JohnE3

Still laughing 🤣

Believe it or not, there are still some folks that use cloth diapers, and do this every time.

[JohnE3]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Believe it or not, there are still some folks that use cloth diapers, and do this every time.

Ido believe it!

I actually used both, because they each have advantages in different situations, and there are valid arguments for and against either... believe it or not.

Like most of these little choices in life, there's not necessarily a clear winner, or a universal good or bad; there's just options with advantages and disadvantages that we each must weigh to determine which is best for us.

Philosophically speaking, I think pooping in an RV is like that to.