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Old 01-26-2021, 01:51 PM   #21
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The Bigfoot 21 has a nice bed and bath layout, but then I noticed the bed is just a double, too small. The BF 25 is a great looking layout with a real queen, much more storage, etc. I really like our 19' and the 23' is a non starter based on the sketches. Like Donna, we'll have to see what it looks like in the flesh. But it certainly does not look like boondocking or extended stays anywhere would work with such little storage.

As a former 42ft sailboat owner and cruiser...we used every inch of our 42 ft heavy cruiser for 18 years with well over 15,000 nautical miles, visiting 30 countries. We heartily disagree with the bigger the boat the less you use it. Kokopelli was a bluewater cruiser, any less capable boat we would not have taken where we went.
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Old 01-26-2021, 02:50 PM   #22
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Are you interested in selling your Escape 21? We would be interested
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Old 01-26-2021, 02:52 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTMartin View Post
As planned there is a 2000 lb weight difference between the Bigfoot's (21 and 25) 7500 lb GVWR and the target GVWR for the Escape 23 of 5500 lbs. That weight increase has a ripple effect. It either eliminates or maxes out towing with a midsize pickup truck. It even eliminates some configurations of full size pickups.
That's the GVWR, not the trailer's weight. Bigfoot uses two 3,500 pound capacity axles, so they set the GVWR at 7,500 pounds (the total of two axles plus 500 pounds on the tongue) regardless of the actual weight of the trailer. Escape could set the same GVWR number for the 23 as well... but instead they set a more realistic 5,500 pounds.

Advertised base dry weights
Bigfoot 25B21FB: 4553 lb
Bigfoot 25B21RB: 4308 lb
Escape 23: ~3800 lb
Bigfoot 25B25FB: 5563 lb
Bigfoot 25B25RQ: 4863 lb

Using just GVWR, one might incorrectly conclude that all tandem-axle Bigfoot trailers require the same effort to tow, which is obviously not true.
To hit 7,500 pounds with one of these Bigfoot models, you would need to carry from 1937 lb to 3192 lb of options, fluids, and cargo - that's not reasonable. To hit 5,500 pounds with an Escape 23, you would need to carry 1500 pounds of options, fluids, and cargo - that's plausible. Due to Bigfoot's rating approach, I would suggest that rather than just looking at the GVWR one should look at maximum likely gross weight, perhaps assuming that same 1,500 pounds for all models:
Gross loaded weights
Bigfoot 25B21FB: 4553 + 1500 = 6053 lb
Bigfoot 25B21RB: 4308 + 1500 = 5808 lb
Escape 23: ~3800 lb + 1500 = 5500 lb
Bigfoot 25B25FB: 5563 + 1500 = 7063 lb
Bigfoot 25B25RQ: 4863 + 1500 = 6363 lb

The Bigfoot trailers are relatively heavy - the Escape 23 is between the length of these two Bigfoot lengths and about 1,000 pounds lighter than the average of all of these Bigfoot models. But those Bigfoot trailers are not realistically 7,500 pounds loaded, and the 25-foot Bigfoot models are significantly bigger than the Escape 23.

I do agree that the Bigfoot 25 is too big for a midsize pickup, and that an Escape 23 would nicely match the capability of a properly equipped midsize pickup.
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Old 01-26-2021, 03:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yangstyle View Post
Those towing capacity's look a little low. I know for the F 150 it can go up to the 13,000 lb area depending on how it is optioned. The others look low also.
At a glance, the rest of the quoted ratings look plausible to me, but the F-150 range (5,000 to 8,000 pound) is cearly nonsense - the configuration is not noted (making the list almost useless) but if those numbers correspond to any F-150 it must be with the base engine, even though the payload range includes a payload package and an optional engine. As TTMartin noted, this would be "some configuration" of a full-size truck; I would add that it is for a configuration that almost no one would choose for towing.

The top end of the F-250 range listed in the article (not copied to this thread) is wildly incorrect, as well - it's low by 6,700 pounds! I think all of the numbers are suspect, since the creator of the list is clearly incompetent. The web site is designed to sell vehicles, not provide useful information.

The actual Ford 2019 Towing Guide shows 7,700 to 13,200 pounds for an F-150... and yes, 7,700 pounds is for a 3.3 L.
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Old 02-03-2021, 11:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crnelson View Post
We love our 21 and have decided to move to 23 for bed and dry bath. Was wondering if others who are considering this move have looked at any other trailer brands that have queen bed and dry bath? There is not much out there other then Lance which I think we have decided against.
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Old 02-03-2021, 08:49 PM   #26
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Moving from 21 to 23

We put so much effort and thought into designing the 21 as our ‘forever trailer.’ We made a 13 foot Boler (with a factory bathroom that took up the front third of it!) work for 2 adults and 2 labs for 6 years before upgrading. Not long after purchasing our 21 began the talk of the 23. The idea of more sleeping space and just more room in general make it more appealing. However, while we have the tow vehicle to accommodate it, the process of planning, not to mention the financial impact, will make us continue to make the 21 work. With our luck, we’d get a 23 and then they’d mention a 25! In the end, we personally can’t justify the price of a 23 for the extra little bit of space we really gain. Interesting point about the ‘openness’ of the design. I believe we were told that the cabinets on either side are what partly support the fibreglass shell if it is designed like other Escapes. We’ll just keep reminding ourselves that camping is about being outdoors. Congrats to those that are able to accommodate a 23!
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Old 02-03-2021, 10:19 PM   #27
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Tundra’s correct
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Old 02-03-2021, 10:28 PM   #28
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Yes, this is it...I like the floor plan and I don't like the kitchen, no oven. The windows are plexiglass or some other acrylic...not so sure about that. I do not like the floor plans of the big foot..we love our u shaped dinette in 21C
...often times lots of great views out that window and when we back in more private also.
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Old 02-03-2021, 10:29 PM   #29
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Looked at it, quality wise Escape is so much nicer, hard to compare
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Old 02-04-2021, 02:07 AM   #30
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I have a 2004 f150 extended cab with a 5.4 2 wheel drive I think it can tow close to 9000 lbs
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Old 02-04-2021, 02:12 AM   #31
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While we would like a Bigfoot 25 we are getting into 60,000 plus range. The upgrade to a 23 might be doable especially if they include more standard options as they mentioned. I’d like the larger bed, dry bath is meh. The good thing is that the resale value of the 21 is so good we might be able to swing the 23 as we would only need a few options AC and Solar. Which is what we did on the 21, mostly stock with AC and solar.
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:44 AM   #32
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We also looked at a Lance, I couldn't get a handle on how they were built structurally and how items like cabinets were fastened. The sales rep was of little help.

If I was to upgrade my trailer for more room, it would only be to the 5.0TA. I find that with the Tundra and the E19 that when we pull into park somewhere, it is hard to find somewhere to park. I'm about 38' and all the spots are like 35' (not measured, just ballpark). When we had the 4Runner and the 17B, I could park anywhere. I would like to go back to a shorter total length and the 5.0TA would do that.

I think the 5.0TA is the ultimate, but at the time, I didn't want to give up my truck bed.
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:52 AM   #33
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Back in 2014 we had a E19 on order and visited the ETI plant at Chilliwack to get help with some build list decisions. It was pouring rain but I saw one of the first of the E21s on the lot. I wandered outside, stuck my head in the door of the E21, and realized instantly that every feature of the E19 that we did not like had been resolved in the design of the E21. (As always, your mileage might vary).

As DonnaD said earlier in this thread, there's no substitute for actually getting the feel of a trailer firsthand by spending time in one. "Buy in haste; repent at leisure."
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Old 02-04-2021, 11:46 AM   #34
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I am waiting to see a 23 in the flesh! Jim Norman, time for a new trailer!
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Old 02-04-2021, 08:57 PM   #35
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We are also shopping for the E 23. We looked at the Lance, which was nice, but our concern was leakage with the outside seams overtime. Great thing about escape trailer is the minimal leakage if any at all.

We also looked at the big foot which is a really nicely designed trailer but for us it’s increased weight was a factor for towing. With options they can also be considerably more costly.

We just wish that escape could figure out how to put in an oven as they seem to be leaning away from that. Seems like a trailer of that size should have an oven as an option. Perhaps switch the sink with the cooktop and then it seems you would have room for an oven.

As a potential new escape owner I have to say we really like the forum for the information it provides..
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