Costly Beauracratic ignorance Rant

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by Kingbiscuit

I just need to vent. Went to our local DMV here in Florida to title/license our new 19. All went well until it came time to pay. The taxes seemed excessive so I asked what figure she used to calculate them.... since I had already explained the exchange rate and pointed out the line on the bill of sale that says "Amount in U.S. funds". She said it did not matter, they had to go by the total amount shown. I said this isn't right, I didn't pay that much and again showed her the U.S. funds line.

She went and got her supervisor. I showed her the difference and explained this is because of the exchange rate. She looked at me and said "that doesn't make any sense. It says amount paid in Canadian Funds and amount paid in U.S. funds. If you add those together, it's almost double what you paid.". I **** you not, she refused to understand what the exchange rate is.

I was getting pissed off. She finally said "They should have issued the sales price in U.S. dollars. We don't have a choice, we have to use that line"...indicating the Canadian amount. It was basically that way or no way.

Her ignorance and bullheadedness cost me an extra $500 - $600 in taxes.

On a positive note, I now have title and tags for our new 19.

When we did ours they went online, found what the days conversion rate was and used that to calculate the fee. Since it was slightly less than when we paid the final payment on the trailer we were happy.

[War Eagle]

In our rural county, everything is done at the county court house annex through a probate judge's window (also acting on behalf of DMV) then down the hall at a tax assessor's window and then back again to the probate judge's window. There was a little confusion when they first looked through all the forms from ETI, so they called the State DMV office and were told to use whatever was listed in Box #35 as the "Total Entered Value" (I assume that means value as it entered into the U.S.) on the U.S. Customs & Border Patrol "Entry Summary" form (CBP Form 7501). While another box on the form includes CAD, exchange rate on the day of boarder crossing and resulting USD, Box #35 contains only the "corrected" value as a basis for U.S. taxes and licensing. So I think that if all the DVM offices would just use the value in Box #35 of CBP Form 7501, all would be well - maybe. But I believe that form is only generated as the camper crosses the border into the U.S. So trying to license before pickup would still be a problem.

[Kingbiscuit]

I appreciate all the feedback. I needed to vent, which I did. I hope folks that are in the same position as us might get some useful information out of this.

Contrary to my personality, I'm trying to tell myself that a year from now, I'll be camping in our Escape 19 enjoying a great trip and none of this will matter. After all, I was fairly fortunate with the exchange rate.

Now, we're on to the next step, final preparation for our coast to coast road trip.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Kingbiscuit: That is some BS! I found this Consumer Appeal form for the Florida DMV. Take it up the chain!

www.flhsmv.gov/pdf/forms/94250.pdf

This is the correct solution to this situation.
When I got the tag for my trailer, I had the same paperwork from ETI. It clearly indicated the three payments I had made in US funds. The local DMV office understood that the amount in Canadian funds equaled the amount in US funds adjusted for the exchange rate, and the amount I paid in taxes was properly calculated based upon the amount I actually paid for the trailer. Send the appeal form with copies of your paperwork to the Florida DMV in Tallahassee. I am wondering if the clerk thought you paid for a portion of the trailer in Canadian funds and the balance in US funds and therefore added the two together, not fully understanding what ETI stated on the bill of sale.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The state in which I reside does not care what you paid for a used vehicle they tax on the blue book value . You can have all the paper work you want it doesn't matter.

That works, removing the need to validate or even understand the purchase price; it would certainly resolve some issues, and could even be applied to new vehicles, but it must create new issues for vehicles which are not listed (is every model and year of Escape listed in the book used?).

In any case, it doesn't apply to the original poster's situation.

[Kingbiscuit]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

This is the correct solution to this situation.
When I got the tag for my trailer, I had the same paperwork from ETI. It clearly indicated the three payments I had made in US funds. The local DMV office understood that the amount in Canadian funds equaled the amount in US funds adjusted for the exchange rate, and the amount I paid in taxes was properly calculated based upon the amount I actually paid for the trailer. Send the appeal form with copies of your paperwork to the Florida DMV in Tallahassee. I am wondering if the clerk thought you paid for a portion of the trailer in Canadian funds and the balance in US funds and therefore added the two together, not fully understanding what ETI stated on the bill of sale.

I had the paperwork showing my payments ad well. I pointed this out to both the clerk and the supervisor. Neither gave any credence to this information. Just kept saying, whatever is on this line is what we have to use.

[Iowa Dave]

32 years in government. Every minute of every day approached with common sense. Rule book or not. Like Jim Norman, I got the job done. Called on the carpet dozens of times. Once I explained my rationale I was only reprimanded a couple times. The most important question the citizen can ask the first four times is Who is your supervisor? Then Who is the department head? Then Who is the political representative? Then Where is my media contact list. Then Where is my poster board, magic marker and sensible protest shoes. I’ve seen ibut never experienced the escalation because I liked Harry Truman and was determined to satisfy the customer because “The buck stops here.” 25 years after I helped people they still stop me in the grocery store and thank me for the times I helped them out. Happened yesterday. Like Davey Crockett said “Make sure you’re right then go ahead”.
Iowa Dave

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Kingbiscuit

Steve, who said anything about yelling, screaming, swearing or calling of names. I was pissed off but not unprofessional. I never raised my voice in any way. No one was obnoxious or loud. Some of us can argue our case without being obnoxious. Can you?

I understand your frustration . You've gotten a lot of good advice here .At our time to register also went though a lot too. 3 trips for us , 2 different DMV, they at the time had no idea how to register us . Told us we were the only Escape trailer in California , which wasn't true . We looked at one before our purchase and knew there was another near San Diego . Didn't get our papers for 5 months ,they goofed and gave us the plates . We put them on anyway. We had paid and they had all our papers ,so the plates went on the trailer .they said we couldn't until everything was finalized. It's been almost 5 years now and we can even laugh about the experience . It will pass and get better .Pat

[J&B Mitt]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

It's really not all that difficult. The exchange rate is when ETI accepts the funds. I have paperwork that shows in Canadian funds and what I paid in US funds. Dan should have paid taxes on US funds not Canadian "value."

Our experience in Michigan: we had to pay tax on the USD value stated on the 7501 form, which was based on the exchange rate on day it was imported, not the day ETI accepted the funds.

Our trailer was completed and paid for three months before it was imported. Unfortunately, we lost a little ground on the exchange rate in that period. When we registered the trailer, I was armed with documents showing what we ACTUALLY paid, in USD. They were sympathetic, but gave us the 'hey, It's policy'.

[P&L]

Beauracratic ignorance or a worker and supervisor who are clueless? I agree with previous posts. We have contacted our local representative to help us out in many situations. This would be one of them and I'm almost sure you would get a refund and hopefully an apology. This is unacceptable.

Lorna

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

This is the correct solution to this situation. ....Send the appeal form with copies of your paperwork to the Florida DMV in Tallahassee.

Thank you for acknowledging this. No need to waste any more energy. The Consumer Advocate is there for a reason. Simple form and copy of the paperwork and I bet it is resolved quickly.

Now whether they pass it down the line to avoid issues for others in the future is another story...

[frank_a]

Here in NY you can go to whatever DMV you want. I live in Albany County and would never go there. Before working for Greene County, I would go to Saratoga County DMV when I lived in Albany County. I still live in Albany County, and love the girls in the Green County DMV two floors down from where I work. They're great, and I know I would never have to explain something so ludicrous.

Frank

[Kare]

Anyone from Illinois had these problem?
Kare

[menemo]

Originally Posted by Kare

Anyone from Illinois had these problem?
Kare

Kare,
I had a similar problem in Illinois Cook County that I am still working through. When I went to register and title the trailer this past fall, the clerks were not certain how to value or tax the trailer. I must also inject here that this involved several clerks, but the one I was mainly working with was a trainer clerk working with a trainee. The trainer made it clear to me that he was having a hard day. He hates hearing small children whining. Just happened to be plenty of the there that day. At first they tried to put me off saying I needed further documentation, even though all necessary documents were presented. After working through the documents with them, they were uncertain as to exchange rates. Finally worked with them through that using the exchange rate of the day I entered Illinois with the trailer. Using this date was in favor of the state and not me. They finally signed off. Last month I received a notice from the state that I owe more taxes plus penalty and interest. They contend that I should have paid taxes on the dollar amount on bill of sale which is listed as Canadian and requires a somewhat thorough review of all documents to determine otherwise. They did also sent a form to contest this finding. I have sent that in and am waiting for their response. I do have the license and title. I am sure that someday this will be resolved. Somethings just confuse a confusable bureaucracy.

Bob

[cpaharley2008]

Good for you, contest and then sue if need be in small claims court, only a small fee is provided and most municipalities never show.

[War Eagle]

I thought I was fortunate that when our local county people didn't know what to do, they called the state office. Given some of the problems others have experienced, and that some are still experiencing, I realize now how truly blessed I was. Makes me want to send our local people flowers and a "Thank You" card!

[AllanEdie]

Makes me glad that this Canadian will not have to go through this sort of nonsense. Good bloody grief, what in the world is so incomprehensible about currency exchange rates

Good luck with this, I hope the appeals result in these messes being sorted.

[Kare]

Thanks Menemo for the information. Good luck with the state of Illinois. We will be in the same boat come June of this year. Looks like we need a bill of sale in USD.
Kare

[Steven M]

Originally Posted by Kare

Anyone from Illinois had these problem?
Kare

My results were a little different. After pointing out that the price they were using was Canadian dollars, they converted it using the exchange rate that day, not the amount on the import papers. Cost me an extra $110-120. Considering the other problems I had getting plates and registration, I called it even and left relatively happy.

Edit: I believe they used x-rates to do the conversion, they went online and then showed me what they had that day.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

I thought I was fortunate that when our local county people didn't know what to do, they called the state office. Given some of the problems others have experienced, and that some are still experiencing, I realize now how truly blessed I was. Makes me want to send our local people flowers and a "Thank You" card!

Me too! When I went into the tax office with all the paperwork needed, the clerk said I needed a VIN inspection report. I politely asked to call the Texas DMV to be sure and she discovered that I didn't on a new trailer. She thanked me for learning something new and then told me I owed taxes on the base cost of the trailer. Huh? She said "what is the cost of the trailer without any accessories" and explained the AC/dual batteries/inverter/frameless windows/etc. were accessories. WHOO HOO! So we looked up the base price for the 21', she converted it to US dollars based on the exchange rate when it crossed the CAN/US border, and I left after paying my taxes with a BIG smile on my face.

Sometimes life is really good!