Costly Beauracratic ignorance Rant

Kingbiscuit · 02-20-2018, 02:20 PM

I just need to vent. Went to our local DMV here in Florida to title/license our new 19. All went well until it came time to pay. The taxes seemed excessive so I asked what figure she used to calculate them.... since I had already explained the exchange rate and pointed out the line on the bill of sale that says "Amount in U.S. funds". She said it did not matter, they had to go by the total amount shown. I said this isn't right, I didn't pay that much and again showed her the U.S. funds line.

She went and got her supervisor. I showed her the difference and explained this is because of the exchange rate. She looked at me and said "that doesn't make any sense. It says amount paid in Canadian Funds and amount paid in U.S. funds. If you add those together, it's almost double what you paid.". I **** you not, she refused to understand what the exchange rate is.

I was getting pissed off. She finally said "They should have issued the sales price in U.S. dollars. We don't have a choice, we have to use that line"...indicating the Canadian amount. It was basically that way or no way.

Her ignorance and bullheadedness cost me an extra $500 - $600 in taxes.

On a positive note, I now have title and tags for our new 19.

**Donna D.** · 02-20-2018, 02:38 PM

Wow, just wow. You're nicer than me. I would have left and found another DMV. OR everyone has a boss, I would have found out who "she" has for a boss... go to the top! AND, baring that... go to the MAIN DMV. Here in Portland we have at least 18 satellite DMV offices, the main office for Oregon is south about 60 miles. $500-600 buys a lot of fuel...

Contact the head office, get a refund! You did not pay in Canadian funds, you payed in US dollars. (And these people propagate...)

Fox hunt · 02-20-2018, 02:39 PM

wow unbelievable ignorance and poor customer service!

Fox hunt · 02-20-2018, 02:40 PM

yes i would rant too!

cpaharley2008 · 02-20-2018, 02:42 PM

You should get a refund, do not let them snowball you. Contact your local state representative and ask for their intervention. Use the government to fight the government and you can fight city hall and win.

steve dunham · 02-20-2018, 02:51 PM

Just two question , " Is the DMV supposed to assume the exchange rate shown on your form is correct or should they have an exchange rate table available for every currency. in the world that is updated continually ?
I understand your frustration but like I was told many times
"Your job is not to make policy " Maybe the clerk was not being ignorant or stubborn but only following the rules and trying to keep her job.

Just something to consider !!

**Donna D.** · 02-20-2018, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Just two question , " Is the DMV supposed to assume the exchange rate shown on your form is correct or should they have an exchange rate table available for every currency. in the world that is updated continually ?
I understand your frustration but like I was told many times
"Your job is not to make policy " Maybe the clerk was not being ignorant or stubborn but only following the rules and trying to keep her job.

Just something to consider !!

It's really not all that difficult. The exchange rate is when ETI accepts the funds. I have paperwork that shows in Canadian funds and what I paid in US funds. Dan should have paid taxes on US funds not Canadian "value."

Fox hunt · 02-20-2018, 03:11 PM

yes i had both US funds and Canadian funds on my paper work . the clerk in my office had no issue with it. She even looked on line to find the length of the trailer when i didn't have it.

Fox hunt · 02-20-2018, 03:13 PM

they can easily check the rate if they like-they have computers - but she did use the one on the paper work because it was the rate the day i bought it.

**rbryan4** · 02-20-2018, 03:17 PM

It takes time to battle incompetence, but there's no way I'm paying hundreds more in taxes. I'd just go to another dmv office if nobody there could help me. That or a letter of complaint to the DMV headquarters, with names, dates and times. You are due a refund.

steve dunham · 02-20-2018, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna D.

It's really not all that difficult. The exchange rate is when ETI accepts the funds. I have paperwork that shows in Canadian funds and what I paid in US funds. Dan should have paid taxes on US funds not Canadian "value."

I am not trying to argue with you but what if Escape listed on the form that the price in CND is $40,000 and the price in USD is $10,000 . Is the clerk supposed to just accept the form from Escape as correct and just collect taxes on $10,000 ?
If had my job on the line , I would never accept a form from a foreign entity unless I was instructed to by my supervisor.
I am not saying Dan is wrong but I am objecting to the names he called the clerk and the supervisor . Maybe he should check Florida law before he calls someone stupid .
This is a situation that possibly can be rectified so the monetary damage is not necessarily permanent.
This is not the end of the world as we know it

Just my opinion which doesn't have to satisfy anyone but me

rubicon327 · 02-20-2018, 03:18 PM

Kingbiscuit: That is some BS! I found this Consumer Appeal form for the Florida DMV. Take it up the chain!

www.flhsmv.gov/pdf/forms/94250.pdf

Brian B-P · 02-20-2018, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingbiscuit

She finally said "They should have issued the sales price in U.S. dollars. We don't have a choice, we have to use that line"...indicating the Canadian amount.

That would have been interesting if the trailer had come from Japan... the tax would have been much more than the cost of the trailer!

The base list price of an Escape 19' is CAD 31,500, which is equivalent (today) to USD 24,906 or JPY 2,672,130 (Japanese Yen). Yes, that's 2.7 million Yen.

Since some people often have trouble with the concept of different currencies, I have long thought that no two countries should use the same name for their independent currencies. This problem doesn't seem to occur between the U.S. and Mexico, in part because the Mexican currency is called a "peso", not a "dollar".

**Donna D.** · 02-20-2018, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I am not trying to argue with you but what if Escape listed on the form that the price in CND is $40,000 and the price in USD is $10,000 . Is the clerk supposed to just accept the form from Escape as correct and just collect taxes on $10,000 ?
If had my job on the line , I would never accept a form from a foreign entity unless I was instructed to by my supervisor.
I am not saying Dan is wrong but I am objecting to the names he called the clerk and the supervisor . Maybe he should check Florida law before he calls someone stupid .
This is a situation that possibly can be rectified so the monetary damage is not necessarily permanent.
This is not the end of the world as we know it

Just my opinion which doesn't have to satisfy anyone but me

Well, there's always the cancelled checks, a receipt from ETI or paperwork from a transferring bank. I doubt too many people would have a hard time "proving" what they paid unless it was a total cash transaction and even fewer people would carry that much cash across the border.... oh and if they did, I bet Customs has some sort of paperwork. So see, it isn't always about just "a form."

advenas · 02-20-2018, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingbiscuit

I just need to vent. Went to our local DMV here in Florida to title/license our new 19. All went well until it came time to pay. The taxes seemed excessive so I asked what figure she used to calculate them.... since I had already explained the exchange rate and pointed out the line on the bill of sale that says "Amount in U.S. funds". She said it did not matter, they had to go by the total amount shown. I said this isn't right, I didn't pay that much and again showed her the U.S. funds line.

She went and got her supervisor. I showed her the difference and explained this is because of the exchange rate. She looked at me and said "that doesn't make any sense. It says amount paid in Canadian Funds and amount paid in U.S. funds. If you add those together, it's almost double what you paid.". I **** you not, she refused to understand what the exchange rate is.

I was getting pissed off. She finally said "They should have issued the sales price in U.S. dollars. We don't have a choice, we have to use that line"...indicating the Canadian amount. It was basically that way or no way.

Her ignorance and bullheadedness cost me an extra $500 - $600 in taxes.

On a positive note, I now have title and tags for our new 19.

I very much understand your frustration. Had the same kind of thing happen in WA. I'd strongly advise a stiff drink...let a day or so go by to cool off then take your paper work back into a DIFFERENT DMV and calmly explain your situation to them and see if you can get it corrected.

I had a "trainee" who just didn't get it. And I realize there are people trying to get away with paying less taxes than are due. But in your case it's the opposite and you'd like to have it remedied. As a taxpayer it's only fair.

Good luck!

Brian B-P · 02-20-2018, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I am not trying to argue with you but what if Escape listed on the form that the price in CND is $40,000 and the price in USD is $10,000 . Is the clerk supposed to just accept the form from Escape as correct and just collect taxes on $10,000 ?

If they believe it, then yes... just as they believe the forms which have only U.S. currency shown on them, even though the value could be a complete fabrication. If they don't believe it, they can type "convert 40000 canadian dollars to us dollars" into a web browser, and/or search the web for the list price of an Escape 19'. Border agents do that sort of thing routinely, and motor vehicle agencies routinely challenge the valuation attached to private-sale vehicles when it appears that the applicant has understated the value to reduce the taxes charged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham

If had my job on the line , I would never accept a form from a foreign entity unless I was instructed to by my supervisor.

If U.S. bureaucrats stopped accepting forms from foreign entities, the country would grind to a halt in days. Cross-border trade is a normal part of life, and has been for centuries. This is a manageable situation for these bureaucrats, who should not need to figure it out from scratch each time a customer walks in the door.

noblets · 02-20-2018, 03:59 PM

Just licensed my 17A in Washington. Clerk looked up the exchange rate online and charged accordingly. No fuss!

advenas · 02-20-2018, 04:02 PM

It took me over two hours to get through the Seattle DMV due to having to explain how the ETI form worked, showing the DMV clerk all my wire transfers and the corresponding USD vs CAD transactions. The clerk kept adding up the wrong amounts then trying to apply the current exchange rate. Since I'm a finance guy in my normal work it took the two hours for me to get them educated enough to get the transaction done accurately. This isn't corporate finance. It's pretty easy stuff. Especially when most of us have all the correct documents when we go in there. So I feel for the OP.

**Donna D.** · 02-20-2018, 04:03 PM

It's because of these types of issues that belonging to a forum such as this can be so very helpful. We SHARE information...

.... if you're just returning to Calif. with your new Escape, the Mt. Shasta DMV office is THE place to register, and it's in the little shopping center right off I-5. (http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f3...tml#post233329)

cpaharley2008 · 02-20-2018, 04:13 PM

Then there is double taxation. Every Escape purchased and titled in Pennsylvania incurred a 6% sales tax plus misc fees to obtain tags. Approximately 60 days after importation, I received a notice of import Tariff of 6% based upon the value presented to Customs who then forward such to the state. I questioned the rate since it is the same as the sales tax amount, the office said you pay one or the other. They then asked me to send proof of my sales tax to them at the state capitol in Harrisburg. I said, is it not the same building where Pennsylvania State Department of Motor Vehicles is located, I was informed yes, they are 2 floors down. I then suggest that they get off the butt, walk to take the elevator down and obtain the receipt from DMV. It was repeated twice, on the third time, he says, OK I see where there was prior issue and it was resolved, job done. I was once a bureaucrat and was known as shortcut person, my boss said get it done and do not tell me how. I was about 85% efficient before retiring. It was known tactic that to show inefficiency just start doing the job and follow all the rules, sooner than later it will grind to a stop.

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