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Old 09-04-2021, 10:50 PM   #21
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This forum is for owners of ETI trailers and is not monitored by ETI. Do they even read it? Posting about bad service here won’t accomplish anything, except get some sympathy or possibly cause a disagreement.. ETI does have a forum now and your post might do some good there. I am an old fart and remember when things were made well and customer service meant something. But things change and not always for the best. Luckily there are lots of helpful, caring people on this forum who willingly offer help and advice. If I’ve stepped on any toes, sorry.
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Old 09-04-2021, 11:00 PM   #22
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They read it; they may pretend they don't. And it takes people willing to get involved to effect any desired change. My belief is that there are a lot of good people at Escape Trailer, yet Leadership is too focused on $$.
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Old 09-04-2021, 11:24 PM   #23
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A smart businessman would make a point of staying away from discussions of their product on any social media forum. And, to relieve anxiety, they probably wouldn't read it either. Nothing to be gained by adding to the din.
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Old 09-04-2021, 11:27 PM   #24
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You were obviously never in business as an owner. Social media is very important as a driver of reputation.
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Old 09-04-2021, 11:28 PM   #25
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sadly, too many times I've seen small business owners TRY to reach out via forums or social media, and get beaten up by the keyboard warriors. that, or they eventually get bored, and it gets turned it over to "MARCOM", a particular corner of bureaucrat heck, and its rare the person put in charge of 'content' has any real relationship with the product or customer service.
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Old 09-04-2021, 11:30 PM   #26
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You were obviously never in business as an owner. Social media is very important as a driver of reputation.
Social media that you can control.
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Old 09-04-2021, 11:42 PM   #27
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i've managed email lists and forums for a music festival for nearly 30 years. 20 years ago they were really active, a community where people shared what they were doing, or stories about music, lots of stuff. then it all kinda drifted off, and the formerly active posters were on facebook and twitter and email lists and forums went quiet.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:12 AM   #28
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Nothing to be gained by adding to the din.
That is, unless the din indicated something that the business should consider changing. Yes, folks do complain just for the sake of complaining, but not always.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:46 AM   #29
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That is, unless the din indicated something that the business should consider changing.
The business should respond privately ( if they are reading ) but not on a forum like this. That will only progress to conflict, like everything else on the web.
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Old 09-05-2021, 05:59 AM   #30
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I’m buying an Escape realizing it’s better than a stickie, and cheaper than an Oliver or Bigfoot and giving up 4 season rating even though I will push the seasons and still want running water. I’ve owned cheap and expensive stick builts, Forest River foam laminated, and a Bigfoot. I looked at Escapes under Tammy / Reese, and went to the factory in 2012. I’ve ruled out Scamp and Casita after having seen several of both.

I know ETI is not the same company; I know the trailer will have issues - they all do; I know basically there is no warranty or dealer service. I chose it because for me, it’s the best value. I realize I will be my own service department. With Tammy and Reese, I would have been an ambassador. Now I’m not too sure, but I still expect many years of great trips, plan on it being my last trailer.

All of my RV’s, from the cheap foam Forest River to the Bigfoot have provided great fun and memories. This is my first new trailer; therefore, the only one with a “warranty.”. I figure the warranty is worth slightly more than Dometic’s, but basically I’m on my own. I go in knowing this, but I’m okay with it given the quality to price ratio of an Escape in these times. These are simply my opinions. Yours may well be different.
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Old 09-05-2021, 06:52 AM   #31
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I’m buying an Escape realizing it’s better than a stickie, and cheaper than an Oliver or Bigfoot and giving up 4 season rating even though I will push the seasons and still want running water. I’ve owned cheap and expensive stick builts, Forest River foam laminated, and a Bigfoot. I looked at Escapes under Tammy / Reese, and went to the factory in 2012. I’ve ruled out Scamp and Casita after having seen several of both.

I know ETI is not the same company; I know the trailer will have issues - they all do; I know basically there is no warranty or dealer service. I chose it because for me, it’s the best value. I realize I will be my own service department. With Tammy and Reese, I would have been an ambassador. Now I’m not too sure, but I still expect many years of great trips, plan on it being my last trailer.

All of my RV’s, from the cheap foam Forest River to the Bigfoot have provided great fun and memories. This is my first new trailer; therefore, the only one with a “warranty.”. I figure the warranty is worth slightly more than Dometic’s, but basically I’m on my own. I go in knowing this, but I’m okay with it given the quality to price ratio of an Escape in these times. These are simply my opinions. Yours may well be different.
Hi: brroberts... I always remember a line by the famous Groucho M. talking about real estate in the sunny south. He said something like "You can get these homes in shingle, brick, and stucco... oh boy can you get stucco". Alf
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Old 09-05-2021, 07:39 AM   #32
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I know I may raise some hackles criticizing Escape in this post, so let me offer that this has to do with the new ownership and how they react to issues and promises regarding those issues, not the trailers themselves. I also hope this will give them some pause and cause them to change their behavior. There are also many recent posts that are related to this issue, most notably Escapes response to solar panels detaching and flying off.


We placed our order for our Escape19 with the previous ownership (Reace and Tammy). Tammy answered most of our calls and worked over our build sheet with us. She identified options that we could not defer if we wanted them, and others that she said Escape would be happy to install later (extra solar panel, under carriage insulation, etc.) if we brought the trailer back. It was a great buying experience and we felt like we were joining the "Escape family".

Our pickup experience turned out to not be great (see my post from a couple of years ago "off the ball" regarding the trailer coming off the hitch), but it was under the new ownership as Reece and Tammy had turned it over just prior to our delivery. As I noted in that post, Karl's response on the phone was less than sympathetic. But Trevor and another employee stepped in and very thoughtfully took care of everything, so we chalked it up to an error to the guy who drove it across the border and showed us how to hook it up to our truck. However, I should have taken Karl's reaction as an omen.

A short time after delivery we noticed the drawer rails on two of our drawers were not working properly. I tried some adjustments, and finally got it so we could work the drawers but we had to be very careful each time to ensure they did not come off the rail and get stuck. I called Dustin at the Escape parts department and explained the issue and was told they could fix it as it was still under warranty.

We were in the middle of a move from Virginia to Oregon and could not make it up there right away then COVID hit and the border was closed. I called Dustin at least TWICE over the next several months to confirm this issue as was told "I've got it in the notes, we will take care of it after COVID". We had such a pleasant buying experience, that I did not give much thought to getting his statement in writing. After all, we were part of the Escape Family right? so I felt I could trust him and saw no reason to get it in writing.

Then two things happened that I think align with other signs of poor management (several regarding delivery QA, and a recent post regarding solar panels becoming detached).

1. Escape announced that it was no longer going to do after-delivery installation of accessories. I've mentioned this before in a post, and my objection is that they did not give any notice to existing owners like us who were told at the time of recent purchase that we could have some accessories installed later (we wanted an extra solar panel installed and possibly the under carriage spray insulation). I don't look at it as a promise made by Tammy, it was a promise made by ESCAPE, and in my experience new owners should be bound by the promises of the previous ownership.

I wrote Karl about this and received a polite but dismissive response where he spends his time ignoring my point and writing about how they had to expand production, and we can get most of that stuff installed elsewhere. I've posted the email at the bottom if anyone cares to read it. Essentially, I told him that current owners should be given a reasonable grace period to have options installed at the factory before the new policy went into effect. We also could not get back to the factory until the COVID travel ban was lifted. Nope - he does not care what promises were made. So Tammy did not lie, but Karl made it so by dismissing her promise.

2. I emailed Dustin in the parts department several weeks ago and said we were planning to go camping in BC sometime in October and we could bring the trailer by to have the drawer rails repaired. I received a email response that said, "we have no record of this and it is out of warranty". I know we are talking about a $10 set of rails here being the likely culprit, but the issue is that they promised to repair it. I was pretty upset about being so blatantly lied to that I called and asked to speak with Dustin's boss.

His boss was even more unsympathetic and borderline rude on the phone. He said flat out, "there is nothing in the notes sir, and it is out of warranty. We don't even carry that bracket any longer. You can buy new brackets at Camping World for $20 or so. We are not going to fix it, it is out of warranty and we are a manufacturing facility."

So either Dustin flat out lied or he was instructed by his boss to say there were no notes after all and it would not be covered. Either is unacceptable.

Let me be clear that it is not the few dollars it took for me to get this problem fixed that is the issue. It is the fact that they lied and over a small issue at that and refused to even work with me to come to a solution. Their solution was to infer you could not possibly have heard Dustin say that twice on two separate occasions, never happened so go away we never promised anything.

I do not have a problem with them trying to maximize production and make a profit. I don't care if they make 200-percent profit or more, we pay what the market demands at any point in time - fine. But don't promise me something and then lie about it.

We currently have a 21 on order that we made prior to all of this mess, but now I'm questioning that decision. Overall, they still make a good trailer but I cannot trust the management any longer and I definitely do not feel they are any part of an Escape Family. They are now a “Manufacturing Facility”. Anyone can be nice when things are easy, but you really get a sense of someone when they have to address issues (large ones like solar panels or small ones like drawer slides).

I sincerely hope that this post, along with other posts critical of the actions of Karl and current management will force them to look in the mirror and make some changes in how they interact with customers. My extensive background in reviewing manufacturing processes tells me this really won’t cost them much if anything. If it does cost them something, they should be accounting for such future unexpected expenses in their pricing, and not making up for it by not addressing legitimate warranty claims or prior ownership commitments. I can get treated like this by a dealer or manufacturer in the US, I don't have to go to Canada, which is where we went in the hope of avoiding such behavior.

Fortunately this FORUM is very much an Escape Family , and we have received a ton of beneficial advice from everything to mods to travel destinations and have tried to reciprocate whenever possible. Our continued thanks to every one of you!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is Karl’s email response to my request for a grace period for current owners regarding after-deliver accessory installs:

Hi Duncan,
Thank you for your email re after market installations at Escape. We still support for warranty but find ourselves in the position where we do not have the resources to act as an aftermarket installer. Fortunately the Escape is relatively easy to work on and most RV repair shops can complete the same installations as us. I appreciate this is not ideal, and not what we have done in the past.
We found ourselves between a rock and hard place, and the decision is to support Warranty and stop aftermarket installs. We have also stopped telling customers that Escape would complete the aftermarket installation work to avoid any future disappointments.
Warm regards,
Karl
I have a 21C on order and I want to thank you for reminding me to get anything and everything in writing when dealing with the "New" Escape.

My original research on Escape found that the Great Escape Experience was mostly related to the small family ownership of the previous Escape owners and that the New Escape is simply much less concerned about their previous reputation as a personal touch company.

Over the years I've been involved in folding in small private companies into the "New" corporate ownership. It happens every time. That unique special quality that built that small business gets pushed out quickly. It was always the first thing we addressed.

Reputation simply becomes a marketing piece in name only.

Best of luck!
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Old 09-05-2021, 08:51 AM   #33
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I have watched businesses since I was in my mid 20's. I was taken aside by the Director of Engineering of Samsonite and the AutoDesk rep out of CA. AutoDesk makes AutoCad. And I sold a bunch of it into all sorts of companies. I have learned to watch them as I go. Those guys schooled me hard. And I learned.

This one is typical. A venture capital company eyed ETI as a company they could purchase, invest money in, blow up sales and sell it for a nice profit. In this case they may keep the brand and build themselves into a holding company. They have Northern Lights too. We shall see.

They may sell it. The value of the company is now much higher and the facility has been expanded to allow for the increased production. New owners mean new rules.

My problem is not with ETI so much as it is with their suppliers, namely Dometic. I am still an Ambassador and in fact, we had a nice couple come by yesterday. I don't sugar coat anything! I do love the trailer. I do not like Dometic or their way of handling authorized repair centers.

To me, as a consumer, this represents loss of value. ETI's value statement is not what it used to be. I see a trade between Goodwill and Income. That should show up on a balance sheet too.

Is it the end of the world? No. But it does cause me to take time out of recreating, to fix things. Which I don't want to do. I wanna play! I have fixed things for years.

The loss is that for those that would gladly drive up to have repairs done right is huge. The whole avenue is now gone. And it is replaced with comments like take it to Camping World.

Did you see the very recent story of a couple that took their RV to Camping World for a quick repair. It was stolen off the lot and Camping World did not even tell the owners or file a police report. After 30 days they suggested to the owners to file a police report.

They are still paying on that camper which is now ruined. A kid stole it out of the yard and did drugs, smoked cigarettes and generally ruined the camper. No word from Camping World as of now. He was caught by police during a hot pursuit.

You want me to take MY CAMPER to them? Ya right. I still don't know who to take my Dometic air conditioner to, to fix it. Now I need to fix an air conditioner that I hate.

I didn't ask for this and I do not see a good way to solve it.
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Old 09-05-2021, 11:35 AM   #34
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I saved the manual vent that came with my trailer. When my Dometic 11,000 btu AC dies since I almost never use it I will return it to it's proper place.
Camping World? All hat, no cattle.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:14 PM   #35
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If one signs a contract by making a deposit, one would expect the contract to be fulfilled. I'm curious how some would post if ETI said the price of the trailer was now double, even though you had a contract.
Now, that is double-talk.
You are mistaken about how the deposit process with ETI works. When we made the deposit in August 2020, there was no published price list for the camper for 2021 production year. So, in theory, ETI could indeed have doubled the price of our camper and we’d be faced with the choice of accepting the raised price or forfeiting all or part of the deposit.

That said, I don’t have a problem with ETI on this. Their sales process was totally transparent in our experience, and we went forward understanding what we were entering into. Our only disappointment has been with the post-sales experience and delivered quality.

Yes, Karl is focused on the bottom line and is willing to sacrifice the customer goodwill, and the customers have to accept it and move on. This is a fairly standard operating procedure in today’s world and is the reality now. I have no/low expectations of Karl/ETI going forward, so will not be disappointed. I don’t understand the blind loyalty of some on this forum, particularly as there is no reciprocal loyalty from ETI.

I continue to believe that ETI ought to do better QA prior to delivery and be more responsive to the safety issues, but that’s on them. They have our money and we have our camper. It’s now our joy and problem to deal with going forward.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:29 PM   #36
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I'd like to point out that I have no loyalty to ETI after Tammy and Reace sold their last shares. Never met Karl or communicated with him. Have no intention of buying another trailer of any brand.

I just might have a different assessment than some others. Dismissing other's opinions with the phrase "blind loyalty" is a poor argument.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:40 PM   #37
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I am merely applying the duck test - looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, probably is a duck. And, my comment about blind loyalty was directed at more than yourself.

If I might suggest one thing for you to consider, it is that your experience is with a company that was very different at the time and a camper bought many years ago - and at a very different price point. ETI is a different company now and the buyers are paying upwards of $50K US for it - are expecting a certain quality for it (possibly naively).
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:56 PM   #38
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This one is typical. A venture capital company eyed ETI as a company they could purchase, invest money in, blow up sales and sell it for a nice profit. In this case they may keep the brand and build themselves into a holding company. They have Northern Lights too. We shall see.
KV Private Equity is not a venture capital company. ETI, Northern Lite, and Campion are long-established enterprises, and the investment in production capacity at ETI was already made by Reace and Tammy before the KV purchase.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:58 PM   #39
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Hi: kavm... Why a duck? If you throw water on it it will simply run off its back!!! Alf
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Old 09-05-2021, 07:22 PM   #40
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You are mistaken about how the deposit process with ETI works. When we made the deposit in August 2020, there was no published price list for the camper for 2021 production year. So, in theory, ETI could indeed have doubled the price of our camper and we’d be faced with the choice of accepting the raised price or forfeiting all or part of the deposit.

That said, I don’t have a problem with ETI on this. Their sales process was totally transparent in our experience, and we went forward understanding what we were entering into. Our only disappointment has been with the post-sales experience and delivered quality.

Yes, Karl is focused on the bottom line and is willing to sacrifice the customer goodwill, and the customers have to accept it and move on. This is a fairly standard operating procedure in today’s world and is the reality now. I have no/low expectations of Karl/ETI going forward, so will not be disappointed. I don’t understand the blind loyalty of some on this forum, particularly as there is no reciprocal loyalty from ETI.

I continue to believe that ETI ought to do better QA prior to delivery and be more responsive to the safety issues, but that’s on them. They have our money and we have our camper. It’s now our joy and problem to deal with going forward.


Could you mention some of the post sales and quality issues you are having, I’m headed right down your path.

I do remember you had a tank level indicator malfunction, but thats all I am aware of.

Also what are the safety issues you mentioned?


As far as the ETI fan club, harmless I suppose.
I guess it’s one of those reasons I don’t believe in telling children fairytales like Santa, it always seems so hard on them when they’re told the truth.
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