Current Management does not support the Escape Family

[Shearwater]

Jumping in here to answer the previous question about quality, hope that's okay. We had some very minor issues with our 5.0 after picking it up in Sumas last month:
1. Small cut in the vinyl floor, looks like a tool was dropped. I filled the gouge with vinyl repair cement/filler.
2. Good size dent in the aluminum floor edging by the raised floor. Not much to be done about that.
3. Screen door wouldn't latch. I added a shim.
4. All three tanks were delivered almost full. Minor flood in the shower but we were in a campground with full hookups so we just drained them and let ETI know.
5. Hot water tank was left in bypass mode and empty, first time we attempted to heat the tank using propane the thermal switch tripped. We opened up the bypass and reset the thermal switch.
6. Rearview camera wasn't working but it looks like our truck was the issue. I wired the camera to the 5.0 battery with a switch for when it's not in use. This wasn't really ETI's problem but had I been paying attention to the issues other folks were having, I probably wouldn't have added this option.

All pretty minor stuff (so far anyway), not unlike buying a new car or house, expect there will be some minor issues that got missed during the QC check. Overall we were very satisfied with the entire process from our initial contact through delivery and we love the trailer. Compared to our Scamp, this thing is miles ahead in terms of build quality and features.

[kavm]

My main issue was with the See Level II indicator, which should have been caught at the factory (particularly as it was a $600 option that ETI was offering for the first time this year). My interactions in that context taught me that the post-sales support contact is best avoided. My issue is now resolved but having a new camper in the repair shop for the first 2 months (albeit, in part, due to the availability constraints at the repair shop) was not something I was thrilled about.

My reference to the safety issues alluded to the multiple exploding cooktop reports on this forum. Thankfully, we have a Dickinson Marine cooktop (we bought and supplied to ETI to install) and are not affected by that issue. But, if there were safety issue reports with any of the ETI supplied items, I’d want them to proactively inform me. I would not expect them to pay for the remediation, but keeping customers appraised of the safety issues is something I’d expect.

I definitely have no desire to bash ETI. They supply an interesting product at a competitive price, and I am totally fine with that. They have not made or breached any promises in their interactions with us. It is early days but we have enjoyed camping with our Escape to date and remain optimistic about enjoying it for years to come. I had higher expectations of the company and its product quality, partly based upon my reading of this forum, but that was a mistake on my part that I have since adjusted them downward.

[oldwave]

I’d say ETI needs to hire a qualified electrical engineer to redesign the electrical systems and a quality control specialist to stop letting trailers go out the door with issues. They certainly have the cash flow given the orders. Invest now to stop the bleed of confidence with your customers. Lots of future customers read this forum.

[Sean Murry]

I have had zero issues with our trailer since we got it in November 2019, except for stuff like the door not closing properly which was just adjusting the shim. So I can't comment on after sales service etc. However I do agree with Kavm, the issue of the SDS2 stove should have been brought to everyone's attention. I wouldn't necessarily expect a new stove, but telling everyone one like Perry told us, check your nuts on the controls to make sure they are tight etc etc. This should have come from Escape. Their silence on this issue is disturbing. For me I did have the loose nuts so it could have been a problem, but thanks to this Forum the nuts are now tight..

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by oldwave

I’d say ETI needs to hire a qualified electrical engineer to redesign the electrical systems and a quality control specialist to stop letting trailers go out the door with issues. They certainly have the cash flow given the orders. Invest now to stop the bleed of confidence with your customers. Lots of future customers read this forum.

Well, you're proposal would actually be a complete redesign of their business and probably cost a lot more than ETI has to spend.

None of the system in Escape Trailers (or any other trailers on the market) were 'designed' by engineers. The entire RV industry builds RVs like they are building houses. Wiring is just run point to point and cut, plumbing is built piece by piece in-situ. All of it is then clipped and restrained to whatever the installer thinks looks good. The results are never going to be reliable, but like your house, everything can be repaired.

As for a quality control engineer, they don't do what you think they do. For sure they are not going to advocate for more checks and tests at end of line. That's not how you build in quality. That's how you paper over a no-quality process to try and stay above water.

The bottom of the RV industry has stuff assembled indifferently. I've seen brake wires pulled around sharp corners and sugged up against screw points. The difference with a better RV isn't a proper harness with looms and defined clip points. It's just workers who route and clip a little bit better.


Crawl around under your car and in the engine compartment and really look at how wiring harnesses and fluid hoses are designed and installed. You'll never find anything like that in any towable RV no matter how expensive.

[kathytony1985]

ETI is a business. This forum is the "Escape Family". IMHO. I look to my family for help and support. I hope to find those things here on the forum.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Sean Murry

However I do agree with Kavm, the issue of the SDS2 stove should have been brought to everyone's attention. I wouldn't necessarily expect a new stove, but telling everyone like Perry told us, check your nuts on the controls to make sure they are tight etc etc. This should have come from Escape. Their silence on this issue is disturbing.

Completely agree. I’ve been saying it for months that Escape needs to put something out to owners with the Suburban SDS2 cooktop. There have been explosions inside their trailers! Let me say it again...there have been explosions inside their trailers!! People have been injured and they have done nothing except quietly changed cooktops. I really feel for the owners with this cooktop that are not on the forum or FB that are blissfully unaware of the ticking time bomb in their trailer. It’s unethical at best and criminal at worst. If Airxcel/Suburban don’t issue a recall shame on them but ETI can still put out their own recall or at least a warning/service bulletin to owners. If I was a prospective buyer this would cause me great pause as it shows to me that ETI cares more about profit than the safety and well-being of their customers. Short term gain - long term loss for any company that behaves this way.

[WillyB]

After reading all of the pros and cons of Escape's support level I have to go back to a question I asked a while ago.

Does Escape's 2-Year Warranty have any meaningful value?

I get the whole "it's their suppliers fault" debate but Escape chose the supplier and Escape should stand by their choices. To me, a supplier item whether it's a stove, a bolt or a sheet of plywood are the same.

Please no bashing me for the question. I'm not anything more than a person who gave Escape $2000 for the opportunity to wait in line to give them a lot of cash for one their units next October.

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by WillyB

Does Escape's 2-Year Warranty have any meaningful value?

I'd say it does not have a lot of value, but I always knew that buying a ~4000 lb item from a company with no dealer network. I'm not going to drag the thing 2500 miles back to ETI to fix anything and I put no stock in generic RV repair centers. OTOH, I'm confident in my own ability to fix most anything on a trailer. They're pretty simple things overall.


When I need a warranty on something expensive, then I want to be able to ship the item back to the OEM's service center (as one would do with a professional camera, for example) or take it to a dealer (as one would do with a high volume car from just about any major automaker.)


I can't do either with an Escape, but for the most part I don't expect to need to.


Thinking about Escape's specifically there are three main components that, if they fail, are likely to be expensive and a huge headache for someone trying to get warranty work done at great distance from Escape......fridge, AC, axles.

[sofmerc]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

I'd say it does not have a lot of value, but I always knew that buying a ~4000 lb item from a company with no dealer network. I'm not going to drag the thing 2500 miles back to ETI to fix anything and I put no stock in generic RV repair centers. OTOH, I'm confident in my own ability to fix most anything on a trailer. They're pretty simple things overall.


When I need a warranty on something expensive, then I want to be able to ship the item back to the OEM's service center (as one would do with a professional camera, for example) or take it to a dealer (as one would do with a high volume car from just about any major automaker.)


I can't do either with an Escape, but for the most part I don't expect to need to.


Thinking about Escape's specifically there are three main components that, if they fail, are likely to be expensive and a huge headache for someone trying to get warranty work done at great distance from Escape......fridge, AC, axles.

I agree with you. I'm a newbie for Trailers but have had boats my whole life and these trailers seem a lot simpler with the same type systems. I'm getting after market AC system so less reliant on some warrantee items. Seems to me some items that people have issues with are just as easy to just fix yourself... Draw slides? come on, just fix it.... MHO only

[rbryan4]

We were fortunate to have bought our trailer when it was still a family owned company. The 2 year warranty, even at that time, often meant having to contact the manufacturer of the part that broke vs contacting Escape. But there was a distinct difference. Reace and Tammy went above and beyond for us on more than one occasion.

Reace even fixed our fridge once at the Bluebonnet Rally, by cannibalizing his own, rather than having us contact Dometic and going through their laborious and frustrating repair process. He treated me like a personal friend, and it's something I won't forget.

Can't imagine ETI doing any of that today, but I don't really expect them to. It's no longer a family business, and we shouldn't expect it to operate like one. Having said that, we should expect proper work with proper craftsmanship. And, we should also expect responsiveness and empathy when folks are injured using products they installed in their trailers.

[Iowa Dave]

Very well put Robert. Many of us have multiple Reace experiences at the factory and at rallies that were appreciated, not typical for manufacturers today, and reassuring. Nothing lasts forever.
Good Job, hoping your new house is working out well.
Iowa Dave

[Rossue]

A Mantra at many companies seem to be "Silent Footsteps " i.e for subordinates they best keep looking over their shoulders. I blame KV more for the current situation than anyone. However, if true and I was Karl I would resign rather than have my personal integrity & reputation sullied.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

, hoping your new house is working out well.
Iowa Dave

It's been wonderful Dave, thanks. Took some getting used to, living way out in the country vs in town, but now we can't imagine ever going back. And it's kind of amusing to see what's been happening with home values in our area (not that we would ever sell). According to several sources, our property value has increased almost $300K in less than 3 years.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by oldwave

I’d say ETI needs to hire a qualified electrical engineer to redesign the electrical systems and a quality control specialist to stop letting trailers go out the door with issues. They certainly have the cash flow given the orders. Invest now to stop the bleed of confidence with your customers. Lots of future customers read this forum.

Escape trailers have never meet all US electrical codes or plumbing codes. That they are even allowed to be imported means that someone hasn't been doing their job.

I am not just spouting - I can back my statements up with facts. Rease nor Karl cared less about meeting code requirements and refused to correct the problems. And they both knew about the code issues so it wasn't due to ignorance.

No vents and S traps on the kitchen sinks, drain vents hidden in walls, electrical splices in walls, 120v and 12v bundled together in wire runs, microwave powered common with other devices,.... I could keep going but what's the point.

So Escape will probably never hire qualified engineers since they don't care about building to meet codes - only to sell more trailers at the highest price / lowest cost possible.

And JeffreyG is 100% correct about quality. It has to be an integral part of the build process - not a inspection at the end of the build.

[YakRV]

You would think with all the negativity toward ETI on this board lately there would be a large number of used Escape trailers on the market. Seeing how few are available for re-sale, looks like they are still a good purchase. On that basis, we plan on keeping our place in line for a May 2022 delivery - being well aware that we won’t have the benefit of bringing it back to Chilliwack for warranty repairs or later upgrades (some 2,500 miles away).

[Sean Murry]

Yes there a few negative comments right now, but when you look at the big picture I think Escape is still an excellent choice. The build quality is still very good. Compare Escape to some of the mass market RV's out there and there is no comparison. Also the flexibility Escape gives you to customize your trailers is also very welcome.
Yes there are a few things here and there, but all relatively minor IMHO, with the exception of the SDS stove, where I think Escape should be held more accountable. I understand they are no longer offering this stove which is good, but they should be more proactive in letting existing owners know about the potential problem and the fix for this problem.

As for warranty, I know of several people with stick built trailers that have had issues, more serious than issues with Escape, and the warranty with those trailers seem to be lacking as well.

I still feel confident in the Escape trailer and if I had to do it again, I would buy another Escape

[YakRV]

Originally Posted by Sean Murry

I still feel confident in the Escape trailer and if I had to do it again, I would buy another Escape

Thank you. This is good to hear.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by YakRV

You would think with all the negativity toward ETI on this board lately there would be a large number of used Escape trailers on the market.

Why would you necessarily think that?

• First, there is the market context. There is an industry wide surge of demand for RVs and campers.
• Second, the cost of the camper is only a small part of the spend. Roughly speaking, we spent about 50K on the camper, 70K on the truck and about 5K on the related items. And, that does not include the investment of time and plans. Supposing one were less than completely satisfied with ETI and/or the camper, does that mean that one turns around and sell it off? That's like cutting off your nose to spite the face, and the answer for most people would be no. It reflects the position on the chessboard and is not an endorsement of ETI,

This direct relationship between the quality / satisfaction with Escape and continuing to own an Escape camper is clearly flawed in logic but is made rather frequently on this forum.

Speaking for us, we have not been terribly impressed with Escape's quality or post-sales support but are enjoying the camper immensely and have no plans to sell it. Even knowing what we know today, we might have made the exact same purchase decision. That said, we certainly would have considered the Oliver alternative more seriously. It might not have changed the decision.

I have warm feelings, kinship and support towards the members of this forum who have helped us a lot. ETI relationship is completely transactional, and that's OK. Our transaction is behind us and I do not put a lot of faith in the warranty support.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Sean Murry

Yes there a few negative comments right now, but when you look at the big picture I think Escape is still an excellent choice. The build quality is still very good. Compare Escape to some of the mass market RV's out there and there is no comparison. Also the flexibility Escape gives you to customize your trailers is also very welcome.
Yes there are a few things here and there, but all relatively minor IMHO, with the exception of the SDS stove, where I think Escape should be held more accountable. I understand they are no longer offering this stove which is good, but they should be more proactive in letting existing owners know about the potential problem and the fix for this problem.

As for warranty, I know of several people with stick built trailers that have had issues, more serious than issues with Escape, and the warranty with those trailers seem to be lacking as well.

I still feel confident in the Escape trailer and if I had to do it again, I would buy another Escape

As a number of members here have said, everything that was done incorrectly can be remedied by the owner if certain skills are available.

The wiring and plumbing in my trailer has had ALL the electrical and plumbing issues corrected at minimal cost to me. Reace did send me a check for me repairing the flooring that wasn't glued down and he repaired my hot water bath sink plumbing when it blew up but that was the end of the Escape support. Everything else was done on my dime with my labor. Of course, I'm happier with my work more than if anyone else had done the same. (perfectionist at heart)

Buying an Escape trailer is fine as long as the buyer understands that he is basically on his own when it comes to repairs from day one.