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Old 09-01-2014, 05:18 PM   #121
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If I wanted a slider, Lance would be on short list. Nice units.

I asked Reace about eco ford and he loved it (as above). I asked about engine braking and he said " none" -- you just adjust your driving style. As a rookie I decided on Hemi power for first tv but will be looking at all brands when time to upgrade. 2020 1/2tons will be an interesting shopping experience.
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Old 09-01-2014, 05:37 PM   #122
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Had a 2012 Lance slider, sold it after 4 months and bought an Escape.
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Old 09-01-2014, 06:41 PM   #123
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Can I ask why? Have you said before?
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Old 09-01-2014, 07:38 PM   #124
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It was my second Lance, the first one had roof bubbles and this one a defective slide design. Sold both and took a loss.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:17 PM   #125
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I asked about engine braking and he said " none" -- you just adjust your driving style.
An F-150 with EcoBoost certainly has engine braking, as described in several references in the owner's manual. The problem, if any, is that the turbo which greatly boosts power does nothing for engine braking, so you have only a 3.5 litre engine pumping air for resistance. The 3.3 L in my van is quite effective, so even with the F-150's greater weight, engine braking will be useful.

Since the transmission controller watches brake pedal action and speed and coordinates with the brakes, the engine braking action might not be very noticeable - it might be hard to tell how much is being done by the engine and how much by the brakes.

If anyone is test driving - or learning their own vehicle - and wants to know if engine braking is effective, just shift to lower gears (preferably while descending a significant grade) with your foot entirely off the accelerator.
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:22 PM   #126
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Memory of the conversation may be tinted but I took away from it that he felt the engine contributed little/nothing to down hill speed control. I shouldn't have used quote marks though.

Plus I have bias against gasoline turbos.
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:25 PM   #127
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Ditto that; and for those who are new to them you need to keep engine running for a minute or so after mucho gusto or you'll be repairing bearings.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:26 PM   #128
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Memory of the conversation may be tinted but I took away from it that he felt the engine contributed little/nothing to down hill speed control.
He may be towing in Drive and without using tow/haul mode: that wouldn't trigger engine braking.

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Plus I have bias against gasoline turbos.
Turbochargers are a more natural match for a diesel, but a direct-injection gas engine such as the EcoBoost are getting quite diesel-like. I wouldn't consider a diesel without a turbo, but on a gas engine it has large potential benefit but significant costs and consequences.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:05 AM   #129
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The tow haul mode on the Ecoboost does cause the transmission to hold gears longer while accelerating, and downshift and hold gears for engine breaking while decelerating on downgrades.

But the contribution to braking is much less compared to a larger displacement engine. Or as I like to say, "you can fool mother nature going up the hill, but not down the hill".

That is another reason that if I was towing a big 5th wheel, I'd go back to a Super Duty diesel.

But for these lightweight trailers we are towing, it is more than adequate.

BTW, found this on the new Aluminum F150 smaller Ecoboost.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:53 AM   #130
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I think it's important to keep in mind that engine braking is just to control speed on descent, absorbing potential energy from the loss of elevation instead of it becoming vehicle speed. Reducing speed is what the brakes at the wheels are for. With that big barn door of a trailer in the back, not much engine braking power is needed to keep the speed from running away at highway speeds.

Also, diesels inherently have very little engine braking, because they have no throttle. Big truck engines routinely have a compression-release brake (such as the classic Jacobs system or "jake brake") which is very effectively but horribly noisy, but nothing small enough to be suitable for towing an Escape will come with one of those. The second choice for effectiveness, and still optional on small diesels, is an exhaust brake (e.g. Jacobs Exhaust Brake) which works like a throttle but on the exhaust instead of the intake. The bigger pickups are in the middle - no compression brakes, but commonly equipped with exhaust brakes. Unless it has one of those systems, a diesel is lousy for engine braking, even compared to that EcoBoost.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:59 AM   #131
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I often wondered if one uses their transmission to downshift to help slow down long hills, does the increase engine rpms indicate additional gas is also being used?
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:45 PM   #132
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According to my Scanguage & my RAV4, no. Going down a steep hill in 4th or 3rd both show 9999 MPG. Don't know about other vehicles.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:47 PM   #133
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I often wondered if one uses their transmission to downshift to help slow down long hills, does the increase engine rpms indicate additional gas is also being used?
If you have a carburetor (meaning you drive a very old or custom vehicle), or if your fuel injection system does not shut off fuel flow during engine braking (a feature called Deceleration Fuel Cut-Off or DFCO), you will use more fuel due to the higher engine speed... but not a lot. Remember that the throttle is fully closed, so as little air (and therefore fuel) as possible is passing through the engine for each engine revolution.

My Toyota van uses zero fuel in this situation (it has DFCO). Although I never towed with my Ford Focus, I noticed that it kept injecting fuel while engine braking, instead of shutting it off entirely; this made me less enthusiastic about engine braking, but I still used it as appropriate to avoid overheating brakes on long descents. My current Mazda3 also keeps injecting fuel (which surprises me), and I do use engine braking in rare circumstances.

A diesel should inject no fuel when not applying any power, because it doesn't need to keep a constant air/fuel ratio. Unless there is some unfortunate minimum fuel delivery feature, a diesel will consume no fuel during engine braking when the driver's foot is entirely off of the accelerator, regardless of how high the engine speed goes.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:50 PM   #134
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According to my Scanguage & my RAV4, no. Going down a steep hill in 4th or 3rd both show 9999 MPG. Don't know about other vehicles.
Like my Sienna (perhaps no surprise there) the fuel flow is cut off entirely if the wheels are driving the engine. I like the litres per 100 kilometres mode of the display: in this case, it shows zero.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:50 PM   #135
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For those that may be thinking that the Dodge Ram 1500 EcoDiesel may be for them... I just had a B&W Turnoverball hitch put into mine last friday and will put B&W's Campanion in the bed to pull the 5.0TA...I think a lot of the installers say it can't be done because it's a very complicated space to put in a hitch and the fellow who did mine did have one tough job...it took him almost 4 hours to finish. I do have air suspension and it's really one great truck. I'll be picking up a 5.0 TA in late November.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:06 AM   #136
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I noticed today that Trailer Life magazine's August/September issue has a test of the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel. Non-towing fuel economy was 22 mpg (US), and while that wasn't really impressive to start with, it dropped to 12.6 mpg with a trailer not much bigger (but much boxier) than an Escape 21'. They did like driving with the diesel.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:33 AM   #137
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I've only used one tank of diesel and driven 640 or so miles and the on board computer indicated 27.3 mpg average but the Gas Cubby app said 25.2mpg at fill up. All non-towing and relatively flat driving.
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