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Old 07-27-2020, 02:46 PM   #1
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ESCAPE 21 and 4RUNNER

Hi I was thinking of buying an Escape 19, but now believe I rather have a 21.

I have a 4 Runner, with towing capacity 5000. So officially it should not be a problem, just like to hear what the experiences are, and if this is a bad idea??
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Old 07-27-2020, 05:10 PM   #2
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I believe Bill S just posted a week or two ago that he had towed his Gen 1 Escape 21 for 20,000 miles with his 4 Runner. He took it quite a few places up and over passes through the Rocky mountains and the Smokies and indicated it was satisfactory. He had a desire for more cargo storage, more power and the benefits of the diesel Ram and its transmission setup so that’s what he runs now. Be he still had the 4 Runner last I knew. You will get lots opinions, some positive and some negative. There are a considerable number of 21 owners and 19 owners towing with 5,000lb, 500 tongue weight Highlanders and also Durangos and Grand Cherokees. The detractors and the champions a conflict “ad infinatum”. We did not grow any popcorn this year, was afraid of cross pollination. So I buy the Mitey Pop from Shellsburg, Iowa. YMMV
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Old 07-27-2020, 05:32 PM   #3
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Here is some previous discussion on this.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tion-4763.html
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Old 07-27-2020, 08:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klimwasbeer View Post
Hi I was thinking of buying an Escape 19, but now believe I rather have a 21.

I have a 4 Runner, with towing capacity 5000. So officially it should not be a problem, just like to hear what the experiences are, and if this is a bad idea??
I purchased a new 4Runner at about the same time I put a payment down on a E21 in December of 2019. I didn't want a truck. I almost sprung for a Highlander. However the 4Runner is already set up for towing. My decision was based on the fact that *95*% of the time I would be using it for other things. I really like the vehicle despite some grumbling you will hear about the 'antiquated' 5 speed transmission. I pull mine in 4th BTW. One of the first things I did was install an auxiliary transmission cooler (stacked plate design). Heeding the advice of others, I mounted the tranny cooler in front of the A/C condenser. It was a pain in the ass. Very tight fit. But mounting there means the air will be forced to pass through the cooler and not just go around it.

While I was at it I also installed a Timbren rear suspension enhancement system. That's mouthful for a what you get.

Also my build sheet included an Equalizer Hitch which is pretty important considering the fact that the 4 Runner like the Highlander approaches the edge of what is acceptable both in towing capacity and tongue weight. I pay close attention to what I load in the trailer.

I also pay close attention to the temperature of the transmission. I installed a Scan Gauge 11 to monitor it.

Hope this helps a bit.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:13 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klimwasbeer View Post
Hi I was thinking of buying an Escape 19, but now believe I rather have a 21.

I have a 4 Runner, with towing capacity 5000. So officially it should not be a problem, just like to hear what the experiences are, and if this is a bad idea??
klimwasbeer,

Since Iowa Dave referred to our early experiences with out 4Runner, I'll go ahead and jump in here. Ours is a 2003 with the V6, which we still have and love. It is a 4 speed automatic and still only has 113,000 miles. Our 21 from 2014 weighs a bit less than the new models, so that's a consideration. Usually about 4200 with a tongue weight of 480--to 500 lbs. for ours.
The hitch our 4Runner came with is called a weight carrying hitch, and while it was rated at 5,000 lbs, it was bolted to a cross member but did not have "arms" that reach out to the frame rails for added strength. I added an aftermarket hitch with arms, since I intended to use a weight distributing hitch which is frowned upon for use with the original weight carrying hitch.
Also, you didn't say what year your 4R is or which engine. I think they discontinued the V8 quite a while ago. If you have a newer transmission than ours, that would be helpful. I wore out some of the plastic bits in the console shifter, constantly downshifting for the downhills.
The Scanguage device is a neat readout that you plug into the OBD port and leave in the vehicle to get up to four temp or other displays on a small screen. I enjoy that, and felt it kept me from letting transmission, oil and coolant temps get in the danger zone on some extreme peaks out West. "Oh, look, let's stop here to take a picture."

Then there's the issue of a brake controller. My older model 4R didn't have one, so I bought that and added it and it attaches to somewhere on the lower dash.

I always advise to try towing with what you own already, and go from there.
One of my favorite phrases is: Manage your expectations.

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Old 08-06-2020, 06:51 PM   #6
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T.V.

WE have towed/camped our new E21C from AZ for 3 weeks in June [after pick-up in Phoenix], and on 2 other E TN camping trips since. WE tow with a 2017 Frontier 5-spd, 2WD long bed, crew cab V6 truck w a WD hitch and separate anti-sway bar as sold by the factory. ..truck rated at 6500 lbs tow capacity.
Thoughts..she tows fine in flat or hilly country and wind. ..but the 260 HP Frontier V6 lacks the needed pulling power for serious mountain towing and there4 sometimes drops down to 2nd gear on long hills. ..even if we slow down from the std 62 MPH we tow at.
Solution..we are looking at trading the Frontier for a V8, full size crew cab truck..maybe a Nissan XD or a Ram hemi [live and learn].

I really hate to do this bks we like the smaller size of the "mid-size" Frontier and I wd keep her if Nissan had a turbo option for the V6, like Ford does w their EB
It has been a difficult struggle trying to find a full size, lo miles, used, crew cab truck w GAS engine and a bed longer than that tiny std 63" bed!! Even the full size Titan has the short bed. Have to go to the Titan XD to get a 6'6" bed!!
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:19 PM   #7
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you get a short bed on a mid sized truck that has a crew cab (4 door). otherwise, the overall vehicle would be a mile long. my F250 has a cab-n-a-half and a true long bed (8' bed), and that makes it 21 feet overall length bumper to bumper, which means its a real beast to parallel park, or maneuver in tight parking lots, or whatever. since its NOT my daily driver, thats just fine, it was purchased as a tow vehicle and general hauler of bulky stuffs.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollybee View Post
WE have towed/camped our new E21C from AZ for 3 weeks in June [after pick-up in Phoenix], and on 2 other E TN camping trips since. WE tow with a 2017 Frontier 5-spd, 2WD long bed, crew cab V6 truck w a WD hitch and separate anti-sway bar as sold by the factory. ..truck rated at 6500 lbs tow...
Thoughts..she tows fine in flat or hilly country and wind. ..but the 260 HP Frontier V6 lacks the needed pulling power for serious mountain towing and there4 sometimes drops down to 2nd gear on long hills. ..even if we slow down from the std 62 MPH we tow at.
Solution..we are looking at trading the Frontier for a V8, full size crew cab truck..maybe a Nissan XD or a Ram hemi [live and learn].
Yeah, you are another trade-in statistic of folks believing their "Mid-size can tow any Escape" syndrome. Yeah, you can do it, however do you wanna? Good luck on replacement; Nissan's are gas hogs. F-150 will make you smile( or as Reace said-"brought tears to my eyes". He previously had a Frontier too.
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:18 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Yeah, you are another trade-in statistic of folks believing their "Mid-size can tow any Escape" syndrome. Yeah, you can do it, however do you wanna? Good luck on replacement; Nissan's are gas hogs. F-150 will make you smile( or as Reace said-"brought tears to my eyes". He previously had a Frontier too.
My 4.0L 6-speed manual Tacoma 4x4 towed the E21 just fine, but its gas mileage on I40 was dreadful (9.6 MPG leaving texas trying to not be a road block in the right lane), combined with an 18 gallon tank meant gas every 150 miles... that and the tacoma's already pitiful payload capacity left little room for cargo, so I upgraded to a diesel truck with a 38 gallon tank, and i'll never have to worry about payload weight again. I do miss that Tacoma when I'm on dirt roads, the F250 diesel longbed is a LOT heavier.
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:25 PM   #10
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LOL

Yup..the Fronty is a good truck and we love the longer 73" bed for hauling camping gear..our rolled-up Gazelle bug-proof shelter slides in longwise w/o even touching the tailgate. I hate to "trade "up" and get a puny short bed truck and I don't shivvagoose if it longer..it is not our daily driver and we live in the country. Heck I'm even considering a diesel.
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:47 PM   #11
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tradtionally, a 'short bed' pickup is 6'6" long and a longbed pickup is 8' long.

this 5'6" and 6'1" stuff is minitruck land.
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:49 AM   #12
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This is my experience. Keep in mind around Ontario, my 4Runner towed my 17B great, not the story in Colorado at 8,000' feet. I probably would pull a 19' with a 4Runner, but the 21' is wider and heavier. I advise people to stay around 50% Towing capacity for a reason. I had a close call and immediately sold the minivan that towed my tent trailer and bought a Tacoma.

If your unsure, my local dealer, CANAM RV will sell you anything, they have a Jetta TDI pulling an Airstream Bambi.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...nce-13422.html
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:46 AM   #13
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LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
This is my experience. Keep in mind around Ontario, my 4Runner towed my 17B great, not the story in Colorado at 8,000' feet. I probably would pull a 19' with a 4Runner, but the 21' is wider and heavier. I advise people to stay around 50% Towing capacity for a reason. I had a close call and immediately sold the minivan that towed my tent trailer and bought a Tacoma.

If your unsure, my local dealer, CANAM RV will sell you anything, they have a Jetta TDI pulling an Airstream Bambi.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...nce-13422.html
/////////////////////////////////////////////

YUp, the Frontier V6 tows fine until we get into mountains..then it shows reeeeel quick why you need more power . It can get up the long grads if we slow down and don't mind her dropping all the way down to 2nd gear @ ~~ 4500-5000 RPMs for awhile. Wow! Like I said..I wd keep her if she had 50 more HP. We really like the size of the truck and all and it carries 4 big adults plus a load easily..til we get to a mountain..and we have alot of them in TN
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:36 PM   #14
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You can technically tow with the 4Runner, but we doubt you would enjoy doing so. We found towing even the 17’ Casita to be really rough on the vehicle. We did that for one season and then upgraded to a GMC 1500. There just wasn’t enough power to tow up and down mountain roads or not be permanently stuck behind a semi trailer. Our pickup towed the Casita and now our 21’ Escape easily.

We actually love our 4Runner a lot; it’s our daily driver. We just won’t use it to tow again except in an emergency. Hope our perspective helps.
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:49 PM   #15
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We tow our Classic 19 with a 2016 4 Runner (Limited AWD Version). We have been back and forth over the continental divide many times on most of Ithe passes.

We can maintain a speed of 60MPH on most grades in 3rd gear at 3600RPM. For example this speed falls off after going past the snow shed on #4 HWY between Hope and Merrit where it gets very steep.

We load the trailer to no more than 3500 pounds. The new 19 weighs 450 pounds more than ours. I would tow it with a 5th generation 4 Runner.
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:59 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
tradtionally, a 'short bed' pickup is 6'6" long and a longbed pickup is 8' long.
The traditional names no longer work. In at least one case, the manufacturer calls 8' "long", 6.5' "standard", and 5.5' "short".

Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
this 5'6" and 6'1" stuff is minitruck land.
It was, but back when only minitrucks had a box under about 6 feet long, cabs were mostly "regular" and light-duty (even full-size) trucks had no more than extended cabs. What has changed is that longer cabs are available with corresponding shorter boxes, and those combinations are popular.

In another forum someone complained that it was impossible to buy a "half ton" truck with an 8-ft box and extended cab. That's nonsense - you can build an F-150 that way right on the Ford website. The problem for people wanting these combinations is that almost no one else wants them, so people don't buy them (so there are almost none available used) and dealers don't order them for inventory (so there are almost none available in stock).
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Old Yesterday, 10:12 PM   #17
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...
In another forum someone complained that it was impossible to buy a "half ton" truck with an 8-ft box and extended cab. That's nonsense - you can build an F-150 that way right on the Ford website. The problem for people wanting these combinations is that almost no one else wants them, so people don't buy them (so there are almost none available used) and dealers don't order them for inventory (so there are almost none available in stock).
where you CAN find those standard cab long bed trucks is in Ford TRUCK dealers, that cater to commercial users. They also tend to stock commercial versions with basic interiors and far less gadgetry, you can't even find a base model truck at a regular Ford car dealer, just XLT, Lariat, whatever. Last time I visited one of these, over half the vehicles in their lot were white Once such dealer is Mission Valley Ford Truck Center in San Jose, California, https://www.missionvalleyford.net/

in stock, https://www.missionvalleyford.net/se...Standard%20Cab
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