Escape 5.0 TA Questions

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

and up here we have the cold factor, thus any canned items or liquid based needs to be removed, freezing them will cause a mess.

Hi: cpaharley2008... Once we overlooked a bottle of liquid dish soap in the lower cupboard. It wasn't a self cleaning mess!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[C&G in FL]

I leave cleaners and some lubricants in the trailer even in the Florida heat. The trailer is in a covered enclosure and the inside temp will sometimes get to the mid 80s, particularly since I run a dehumidifier in it during storage. But I figure some of those items sit in warehouses that are not climate controlled. But even in my garage, grease breaks down.

[darrentoma]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

While I agree that installation would be a substantial part of the overall hitch cost (so the cost of the hitch itself might not be critical... although the Q-series Curts are expensive), I'm not sure that even total installed cost is the primary factor for some of us. Weight may be a greater factor, both due to limited GVWR of the truck, and due to the physical challenge of removing the (removable part of) the hitch between uses.

On the other hand, if I resort to a fifth-wheel I'll probably lift the hitch in and out with a basic engine crane, anyway. An excuse for another couple hundred dollars of garage equipment...

My fifth wheel hitch for the previous truck was a DSP - it was built like a tank - I bought it about 14 years ago. Fifth Wheel hitches have advanced quite substantially since that time - dropping weight along the way. DSP has recently closed their doors keeping on with their original heavy weight design. When I purchased the new hitch for this truck a couple of years ago, while the installer did influence on my decision - I did do a lot of research before hand.

Most of the Reese 16K hitches all looked cheaply made to me. They also looked noisy particularly with the free four way movement they allow (my previous DSP was only two way front to back and it was noisy). I also didn't like the jaw style. Reviews were not all that positive and in fact some reports of them being easily high hitched or otherwise not locking properly with the fifths being dropped onto truck beds. With that being said, I know a couple of guys who own them and they seem to like them - one of them with a larger 30' fifth wheel. I just don't see these lasting 14 years like my old DSP did and is still going strong (gave it to a friend).

The Reese hitch I did like was the R16 (now branded Titan R16). Problem is it was new and there was (perhaps still is) a chronic bushing failure problem. On the other hand I could find very few negative comments on the Curt Q20. The Curt Q16 had just entered the market but was not in stock - only could view pictures of it but I did not like the jaw (and seemingly lack of spherical axial bearing) design as much as the Q20.

As for the Curt Q series being expensive, I am not sure why you think that. Below is pricing from ETrailer on various Reese vs Curt hitches with no slider included. Note: All pricing is in USD and listed lbs are shipping weights so drop off a few pounds for packaging.

Curt Q20: $515 (132 lbs)
Curt Q20 5th Wheel Trailer Hitch - Dual Jaw - 20,000 lbs Curt Fifth Wheel C16130

Reese R16 (Titan): $700 (127 lbs)
Reese Titan 16 5th Wheel Trailer Hitch - Serrated Dual Jaw - 16,000 lbs Reese Fifth Wheel RP30866

Reese 16K: $535 (97 lbs)
Reese 5th Wheel Trailer Hitch - Dual Jaw - 16,000 lbs Reese Fifth Wheel RP30047

Is the last hitch the one optioned by ETI (@ $425 cndn)? I can see why one might think the Q series Curts are higher priced based on that super deal when bought with an Escape 5.0 T/A. But otherwise the Reese 16K is actually $20 more based on Etrailers pricing.

Some cheaper options:
16K Pro-Series (by Reese): $425 (110 lbs)
Pro Series 5th Wheel Trailer Hitch - Dual Jaw - 16,000 lbs Pro Series Fifth Wheel PS30855

Curt Q16: $395 (112 lbs)
Curt Q16 5th Wheel Trailer Hitch - Dual Jaw - 16,000 lbs Curt Fifth Wheel C16120

The Curt Q16 to me seems like a better built hitch than the very cheaply built 16K Pro-series yet it is $30 less (again according to etrailer pricing).

The Curt E16 probably compares closer to the 16K Pro-Series and it comes in at $250 (94 lbs).
Curt E16 5th Wheel Trailer Hitch - Slide Bar Jaw - 16,000 lbs Curt Fifth Wheel C16115

The way I looked at it when I decided on the the Curt Q20 was it was a quieter hitch with a better jaw system and better built overall for around the same money when compared to a regular 16K Reese. And I still would worry about the 16K Reese lasting 14 years - whereas I have better faith in the Q20 in this regard. The R16 Titan might be better suited to longevity if it were not for the bushing failures - and it might be quiet along the lines of a Q20 - but it's the pricier option for sure.

The initial point I was making was in comparing the quiet aspect of the Andersen ball hitch to a traditional fifth wheel hitch. As mentioned - I find the Curt Q20 to be Very quiet and I think that is the purpose of the Reese Titan series. I am not sure if the Curt Q16 would be as quiet as it does not seem to have the same Spherical Axial Bearing as the Q20. The difference in weight between a Q20 and a noisier 16K Reese is not that significant. One does drop a bunch of weight though when considering the Andersen ball hitch - just keep in mind that in many States and Provinces the Andersen ball hitch will require a safety chain. There is just something about a traditional king pin set up - at least to me it seems to have more strength (hence the associated weight difference).

[FMLNM]

We love our B&W Patriot 16K hitch. It comes in two pieces so it is easy to remove from the bed when you wish. It allows for 3 positions for the head of the hitch so you can compensate for shorter truck beds, etc.
It is a 'jaws' type hitch. Rides quiet and smooth.
Better price on Amazon than etrailer.
Check it out:
B&W Patriot 5th Wheel Trailer Hitch - Dual Jaw - 16,000 lbs B and W Fifth Wheel BWRVK3200

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaW_fBFUVpE

[darrentoma]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Sadly, equipment does not always come in a ready-to-operate state, even when it should, and even when someone has been paid to install it. I don't think this issue is unique to Curt or this specific installer.

But.... Seasonal lubrication? The Instruction Sheet for the Q20 says

There's a page of lubrication instructions for the jaw pin grease fittings, lower bearing grease fittings, spiral cam, and skid plate.

I just re-read the instructions for the lighter and somewhat different Curt Q16, and this is the lubrication specified before each use:

I can see doing these things seasonally, or in some cases once per trip, but for every hook-up seems unreasonable.

Perhaps these are procedures which no one is expected to actually follow - after all, the same Q16 manual says to do these:

... and the Q20 manual says

It's hard for me to imagine breaking out the torque wrench to make sure the parts of the tug are still properly put together each and every day on the road.

I think much of what is stated in the manual is overkill. The hitch shop told me an annual lubrication is all that is required. Whether the overkill in the manual is for liability purposes or otherwise I am not sure. Maybe it is just to drill through to the customer the importance of lubrication. Take a look at the Reese 16k manual:
https://www.americanrvcompany.com/as...ese/N30047.pdf

Reese cautions NOT to install in truck beds shorter than 6 feet. Yet we know many people are with extensions, sliders or just using extra caution and doing it successfully. They also mention to recheck tightness of all hardware every 1000 miles of use. When they say all hardware do they really mean ALL? Figure 19 shows a lot of parts. Regarding lubrication they state that before each trip to: Use engine oil to lubricate pivot points of moving parts within the hitch. But how many out there do all this.... and at what interval and with what procedure. I have read some forums out there where some individuals are pretty convinced that these type of Reese hitches need to be taken apart completely at certain intervals. Cleaned up, re-lubricated and put back together. The exact procedure in the manual is pretty vague.

While again it might be overkill -- the procedure is much more defined in Curt's manual - and with the zerk's they provide an easier way to do it vs taking the whole thing apart. One way or another these hitches have moving parts that need regular lubrication. Is Reese perhaps understating the importance where as Curt is overstating it? No where does Reese say that a complete take apart is necessary yet it might be to completely do what they say (ie 'lubricate pivot points of moving parts within the hitch').

[darrentoma]

Originally Posted by FMLNM

We love our B&W Patriot 16K hitch. It comes in two pieces so it is easy to remove from the bed when you wish. It allows for 3 positions for the head of the hitch so you can compensate for shorter truck beds, etc.
It is a 'jaws' type hitch. Rides quiet and smooth.
Better price on Amazon than etrailer.
Check it out:
B&W Patriot 5th Wheel Trailer Hitch - Dual Jaw - 16,000 lbs B and W Fifth Wheel BWRVK3200

It would be a good comparison to list all the same hitch prices from Amazon as they might consistently have better pricing. For what it is worth ETrailer has this at $631 USD - so based on the above comparison somewhere between the Reese R16 Titan and Q20 Curt but is heavier than both with a shipping weight of 147 lbs.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/ne...reply&p=105431

I had considered one of these Patriots before deciding on the Q20 Curt. The Patriot looks like a very good hitch. I like the jaw mechanism and the heavy duty aspect. I remember people having positive things to say about it. I also notice at least one zerk fitting. I can see this one lasting well beyond my 14 year expectation.

[emers382]

Darren

Like Dave we are happy with our Patriot, never hear a sound from it, easy hooking up I usually do it myself. I don't think it was anywhere close to $631 U.S. when I bought last year seems to me around 500 or less. Mind you easy for me ordered on Amazon and delivered in the town right across the border from us, just picked it up and paid GST and PST at the border. Another reason I ordered US made hitch, no duty to pay.

Adrian

[GusGill]

I'm finishing up my 5.0TA build sheet as it's due on 9/1 and was wondering what folks thought about getting the added wall/ceiling insulation option? I've already gone with the foam in the floor. Any other options that people would suggest? Also, I'll be using a 2013 Toyota Tacoma Sport with tow package.

[padlin]

Welcome
I went with the double insulation upgrade, in for a penny, in for a pound. Help insulate for both heat and cooling a bit as well as make it a little quieter inside. Being you're from FL, I'd get it, as well as the double pane windows. Getting single pane opening ones in the loft is something to think about too.

Suggest you do some reading here on options, pretty much all of them are worth while. Depends on your wallet and what you want to do or where you want to go with the trailer.

Does the Taco have enough payload for the fifth wheel? Might figure a max of 750 lbs for the pin weight and 100-150 lbs for the hitch, depending on what you go with.

Here's a thread on the subject, don't know what the outcome of it was though.http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...ghts-5050.html

[Jim Bennett]

Pretty much the first option I would consider is the dual pane windows, and added insulation, WAY before the floor insulation. Like Bob said, it better keeps the heat in when cold out, and keeps it out when in hot weather.

[Charlie & Lucy]

Originally Posted by GusGill

I'm finishing up my 5.0TA build sheet as it's due on 9/1 and was wondering what folks thought about getting the added wall/ceiling insulation option? I've already gone with the foam in the floor. Any other options that people would suggest? Also, I'll be using a 2013 Toyota Tacoma Sport with tow package.

Welcome GusGill,
We also had a 2013 Tacoma with tow package. Due to the bed lining and marginal weight capabilities, we decided to trade it in and we got a 2014 Ford F-150 with a really good tow rating. We pick up our 5.0TA on Sept 8th and we got the full insulation package (under foam, extra insulation in the walls and windows - except the bed area). We based most of what we decided on by what the experienced members of the forum related. Such a great bunch of folks! (Thanks padlin on the windows suggestion).
We just hope all that we ordered will do well for us..... of course they will! It's an Escape!!
:eggrv;
Lucy

[nathanj04011]

Does anyone know if 2 solar panels can be added to the 5.0TA? If so, what is the cost of the extra panel? Thanks!

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by darrentoma

It would be a good comparison to list all the same hitch prices from Amazon as they might consistently have better pricing. For what it is worth ETrailer has this at $631 USD - so based on the above comparison somewhere between the Reese R16 Titan and Q20 Curt but is heavier than both with a shipping weight of 147 lbs.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/ne...reply&p=105431

I had considered one of these Patriots before deciding on the Q20 Curt. The Patriot looks like a very good hitch. I like the jaw mechanism and the heavy duty aspect. I remember people having positive things to say about it. I also notice at least one zerk fitting. I can see this one lasting well beyond my 14 year expectation.

Our B&W Patriot hitch weighs 114 pounds plus the weight of the rails (one piece 67 and the other 47). We bought ours in June 2013 and paid $400 including shipping. Rails were ordered elsewhere.
Here is the current Amazon link:
Amazon.com: B&W Trailer Hitches 3200 Patriot Fifth Wheel Hitch: Automotive

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by darrentoma

As for the Curt Q series being expensive, I am not sure why you think that. Below is pricing from ETrailer...

Good info. Since I was getting service information from the Curt website I saw the pricing there, which would be manufacturer's suggested list price - over USD$700. Just from memory, that seemed really high... and even the street price is twice as high as the cheapest alternative. It may well be worth that.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by darrentoma

Reese cautions NOT to install in truck beds shorter than 6 feet. Yet we know many people are with extensions, sliders or just using extra caution and doing it successfully.

Although shorter boxes require caution even with an Escape, I think it is key to remember that the hitch manufacturers are assuming a 96" to 102" wide trailer body, so up to 51" would be required for a 90 degree angle to the truck. A 5.0TA (along with the 21 Foot) is the widest Escape, but it's still only 88" wide.

Any hitch configuration can be jacknifed in reverse to the point of jamming stuff together that shouldn't touch, but I would want to be able to at least go forward as tightly as the truck will turn and not have the trailer hit the cab; the spacing required to do that depends on truck wheelbase, steering angle, and the distance from the trailer's pin to axle. I can do that with my van and conventional trailer, which takes one concern out of maneuvering.

Originally Posted by darrentoma

One way or another these hitches have moving parts that need regular lubrication.

The chassis of a car is full of heavily loaded moving suspension parts, and in a modern car none of them need regular lubrication. Unfortunately, this is typical of RV equipment: relatively crude.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by darrentoma

As for the Curt Q series being expensive, I am not sure why you think that. Below is pricing from ETrailer...

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Since I was getting service information from the Curt website I saw the pricing there, which would be manufacturer's suggested list price - over USD$700.

By coincidence, a flyer came from a "performance" parts store (now mostly truck equipment - JB's Power Centre) today, with some hitches. What looks like the Curt E16 is only C$376, but the Q20 is C$800. The Q20 may well be worth the price difference, but it's not cheap.

[jennykatz]

I'm looking at a 19ft escape the 5th wheel version where can I get info on a 2013 model spec's etc . what height should the 5th wheel be for a small pickup . Can I pick this up with a Ram 3500 with 5th wheel attachment Lots of questions ? and very little time to make up mind . Also how does one start a new thread?? Jim

[Zardoz]

Tap/click the "Forum" tab on the upper left corner of the homepage. Then tap/click on the appropriate category for your topic. The, tap/click the "Forum Tools" drop-down box and select "New Thread."

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by darrentoma

Perhaps ditching the general purpose table we have now and using the stock interior table outside when needed. However, I wouldn't want to be moving it back and forth so have yet to convince myself of this.

I see nobody has addressed this part of your post. From what I'm reading, you're thinking of taking the table that's inside the trailer (at the dinette) and use it outside? Nope, won't work as far as I know. It's installed on a pedestal and isn't exactly lightweight either.

What we're going to do, when we eventually order our trailer (1/5th of the way to the purchase price saved up! YAY!) is have the dinette as U-shaped with two filler boards. Small, flip-up tables/counters will be installed at either end and we'll use those for eating at and setting drinks on when lounging at the dinette. yeah, we'll order the table but I don't plan to use it. It's more for if we have to sell the trailer, as the next owner might like it.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by NW Cat Owner

taking the table that's inside the trailer (at the dinette) and use it outside? Nope, won't work as far as I know. It's installed on a pedestal and isn't exactly lightweight either.

Actually, the material ETI uses to construct tables is relatively light and could easily be carried outside. You would want to remove the pedestal sockets (2) and purchase/fabricate some type of folding legs. But I would be most concerned about the weather as the Escape table was not designed for outdoor use. I would think you would be better off leaving it inside and buying a small table with collapsible legs at WallyWorld for outside use.