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Old 10-23-2020, 10:04 AM   #41
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Alternate?

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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
It seems when anyone comes out with a new fiberglass trailer line that the only thing new is the form , while the function portion stays the same .
To me itís like moving the deck chairs around on a sinking Titanic in an effort to save the ship
I donít object to the price level if the reliability / quality matches or exceeds the price , if not then I might as well stick with what I have .
At my age I am more concerned with cost of ownership , reliability ,good engineering , etc ( IE : Iíd rather spend my time camping )
Spending my time repairing defects/ failures has lost its appeal and I am looking for a true alternative .
Hi: steve dunham... Motel6 comes to mind. They'll even leave the light on for ya!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:39 AM   #42
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Donna, Looked at outdoor Rv and was not impressed, they seem to be lagging way behind as far as keeping their trailers current with systems and the design and finishes are dated; very heavy....... just know we are going to win the lotto and get a 23 next year, will be sad to see our 21 go, she's awesome just not for sleeping and showering.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:46 AM   #43
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We looked at the Armadillo Backpack back in January. At the time, I was advised a 75% non-refundable deposit was required to secure a to be produced trailer which was about 5 months out. The risk was too great.

I hope Armadillo has been able to sort something else out and improve cash flow. One of the owners I chatted with was an all around wonderful person offering a fantastic product.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:50 AM   #44
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Hi: steve dunham... Motel6 comes to mind. They'll even leave the light on for ya!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
Thatís been discussed
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:59 AM   #45
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Found Escape, the 19' is literally perfect for our needs. Now my big problem is the wait list is too long. I really would prefer to have a trailer for at least some of the 2021 season, but that does not look plausible.
Yep I'm in the same boat... only solid chance for a new one in early 2021 is hitting the 23 lotto (which luckily isb the one I want), short of that I'll just be looking for a good used Escape...don't know if I can go a whole year without an RV!
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Old 10-23-2020, 11:24 AM   #46
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Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that there seems to be more complaints about new Escapes (usually minor issues) these days both on the forum and on the Escape facebook group? Is it because the quality has gone down or because there are so many more new owners?
Hi Adrian
As Brian alluded in the next post after yours, the more units, the more problems and like new models of cars, when there are changes, there are problems.

I worked for a mayor who had been elected and reflected 11 times, two year terms. He was a terrific individual. I asked him one day as the election approached how things were going. He told me that every term resulted in a little more baggage to carry. Hundreds of decisions affect thousands of voters and many not in a positive way.

So it is with Escape in my opinion. Add that to the proliferation of forums, groups, podcasts and all other forms of electronic communication. So there will be complaints, detractors, questioners, that’s the way it goes. We didn’t use our Escape much this year, but the time we did use it was all family oriented and that’s what matters to us. The performance of the 6th Escape 21 sold to the public continues to be very satisfactory.

Had to spend $7.63 on my Nissan yesterday. I suppose at
107,000 miles I should expect to spend a few bucks once in a while. Hope you and Beth are ready for winter. Won’t be long before it’s the real deal.
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Old 10-23-2020, 01:23 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by TahoeJoe View Post
Yep I'm in the same boat... only solid chance for a new one in early 2021 is hitting the 23 lotto (which luckily isb the one I want), short of that I'll just be looking for a good used Escape...don't know if I can go a whole year without an RV!
And for that, and other reasons, we have decided to go with a Bigfoot. Waiting until 2022 is out of the question.

By far, this has been the most informative RV forum I have ever been involved with.

Sam
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Old 10-23-2020, 06:05 PM   #48
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I looked at just about everything from the Jeep pop up trailer, Mercedes Sprinter van conversion etc. On the full trailers I looked at Oliver but didn't like the look of them. Was seriously looking at Airstream 16 Sport, but didn't like the grey/black tank combined. Also concerned about all the seems and what the trailer would look like after a hail storm.

Finally came down to Bigfoot 17 or the Escape 19. I think the Bigfoot is a stronger trailer and is also 4 season. (You can climb up on the roof of the Bigfoot for maintenance or even caring stuff) But with that comes extra weight and cost. I think the interiors of the Bigfoot are nicer than Escape, just my opinion of course.

However at the end of the day I picked the Escape. There was more capability to customize and the width was under 7' (The Bigfoot is 8' wide, and I didn't want to push that much wind).
Price point was also better, but not by a huge amount.

I didn't seriously consider any stick builts.
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:25 PM   #49
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I looked at just about everything from the Jeep pop up trailer, Mercedes Sprinter van conversion etc.
As a Daimler employee, I can recommend the Sprinter. Please support my bonus check.

Quote:
On the full trailers I looked at Oliver but didn't like the look of them.
I liked the look of them. I didn't like the price and the weight. The main thing I struggled with in terms of Oliver is that they start with a completely loaded trailer and a high price. That includes a really great double hull and aluminum frame. It also includes a whole bunch of things (TV, microwave etc) that I don't want or need. I kind of like taking an Escape and starting from $25k, optioning it up to $35k with what I want, vs. buying $55k with a bunch of stuff I don't want.

Quote:
Was seriously looking at Airstream 16 Sport, but didn't like the grey/black tank combined. Also concerned about all the seems and what the trailer would look like after a hail storm.
Thought about airstream briefly and have friends with them. That's where my Hensley experience (positive) comes from. They are more maintenance intensive than fiberglass and more expensive. End of story.

Quote:
Finally came down to Bigfoot 17 or the Escape 19. I think the Bigfoot is a stronger trailer and is also 4 season. (You can climb up on the roof of the Bigfoot for maintenance or even caring stuff) But with that comes extra weight and cost. I think the interiors of the Bigfoot are nicer than Escape, just my opinion of course.
I think I need to really see a Bigfoot in person, which I have not. Off the cuff, their floorplans did not attract me. That kind of stuff can be really personal, but their 17.5' models are less space efficient than the Escape 17.

Quote:
I didn't seriously consider any stick builts.
Been there, done that, got the delamination.
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:47 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyG View Post
As a Daimler employee, I can recommend the Sprinter. Please support my bonus check.

I liked the look of them. I didn't like the price and the weight. The main thing I struggled with in terms of Oliver is that they start with a completely loaded trailer and a high price. That includes a really great double hull and aluminum frame. It also includes a whole bunch of things (TV, microwave etc) that I don't want or need. I kind of like taking an Escape and starting from $25k, optioning it up to $35k with what I want, vs. buying $55k with a bunch of stuff I don't want.

Thought about airstream briefly and have friends with them. That's where my Hensley experience (positive) comes from. They are more maintenance intensive than fiberglass and more expensive. End of story.

I think I need to really see a Bigfoot in person, which I have not. Off the cuff, their floorplans did not attract me. That kind of stuff can be really personal, but their 17.5' models are less space efficient than the Escape 17.


Been there, done that, got the delamination.
The 17.5 Bigfoot to me seemed more like a 19 in terms of space. That extra width really makes a difference. I personally liked the front bedroom floor plan, The Bigfoot also has really nice large windows, especially around the dinette, The fit and finish is very much like an Airstream IMO. The holding tanks and fresh water tanks also has hot air directed to them for the winter. The wall construction is also thicker and much stronger. I think there was a video showing someone using a hammer to smash the side of the Bigfoot with no damage. That of course equals higher weight.

Escape 19 has the dual axles which could be a plus or minus depending on your opinion. I liked the idea of dual axles in case you ever had one tire blow, you still have 3 left.

Decisions decisions, but good idea to look at all options.
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:50 PM   #51
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When I looked at the Bigfoot models either the bed was to short or to narrow. I could not find a model which had a 60 x 80 inch bed which is the minimum for us.
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:59 PM   #52
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When I looked at the Bigfoot models either the bed was to short or to narrow. I could not find a model which had a 60 x 80 inch bed which is the minimum for us.

Yes, that's basically what I was thinking of in terms of the plans. For me, the 54" max width bed units from any manufacturer are problematic as compared to 60"


That's obviously individual. For me a fixed 60" bed is a must have, and then I need at least a 2x dinette in addition and prefer a 4x.


But those needs are specific to me.
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:03 PM   #53
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I am only 5'7" and my wife is 5' 4" so we do not have the problems of the taller folk.
The width of bed is important and the Escape is nice for that.

For us two things were critical. Permanent bed and 4 person dinette. Bigfoot and Escape met those.

Another trailer we considered was the Tab400, the new bigger model. Pretty cool and modern styling inside. Got down to seams again for me, plus the width was 8' or close to it. I also used that for eliminating some trailers, which is one of the reasons the Bigfoot got crossed off
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:15 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Sean Murry View Post
Another trailer we considered was the Tab400, the new bigger model. Pretty cool and modern styling inside. Got down to seams again for me, plus the width was 8' or close to it. I also used that for eliminating some trailers, which is one of the reasons the Bigfoot got crossed off
We looked at the T@B and also the Little Guy Max. Really we loved the Little Guy Max and were close to going that way. But.......

We'd owned a Rockwood (junk) stick-built. We read reviews that T@B and Little Guy might be better. But also might still be stick-built typical. End of the day with stick built is, you're always afraid you might get a leak that leads to progressive, un-repairable, loss-inducing damage. At the end of the day they all leak and the damage is always un-repairable once discovered. That was the key to us.
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:17 PM   #55
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I also agree with you about options that come standard but you don't want.
We didn't want a microwave or AC. Nice thing about Escape is that it is wired for AC, so if you decide later to add it is not a big deal.

For us we camp mostly without hookups, and I didn't want to fire up a generator to run things like microwaves or AC.

Could be wrong as I haven't checked recently, but I think the Bigfoot comes standard with those things. Sounds like Escape could be your answer. From our experience you can't go wrong.
I was the big pusher in our family to get a trailer or camper. Up until now we were tent campers and enjoyed it, but as we get older, the weather is more intimidating and we found we weren't going out as often as we would like. My wife thought a trailer was a good idea, but I would say she was more like 75% of the way there, where I was 100%. The Escape for her has been way better than she originally thought. She is now looking for every opportunity to get Lily out (we call our trailer Lily, and our truck is Herman. If you recall the old TV show the Munsters Herman and Lily were hitched....)
Don't regret our purchase at all
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:27 PM   #56
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Sometimes I muse about converting a steel cargo trailer. Welds at the seams should eliminate most leak worries. I could insulate it better than most travel trailers, and I could install whatever quiet heater (maybe a Dickinson or a Propex) I want, and a quiet, efficient mini-split A/C. Create whatever floor plan suits me. I’m guessing it could be done for $10k-$12k, too. Not that I’ve ever done anything so involved. Just some idle dreaming for now, but if I don’t find an Escape that I can afford, this might be the backup plan.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:35 PM   #57
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We started looking for a trailer in August of 2018 and found Escape after thinking about a Scamp 19. We put our deposit down on our 5.0 TA the 27th of August and only had two or three weeks to complete our build sheet for a build date of November 27th and we got $1000 off on a winter sale.

Just lucky I guess, I don't know if we would have waited over a year but we probably would have. We really wanted the 5.0 TA and really glad we didn't get the Scamp 19.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:37 PM   #58
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Sometimes I muse about converting a steel cargo trailer.
I belong to a Facebook group "Cargo Trailer Conversions." Some builds are absolutely beautiful. Some look like the owner took the backyard metal garden shed and stuck it on a boat trailer. Some build to haul ATVs and motorcycles with a place to sleep. Others want a fully-self-contained travel trailer with all the amenities. Appears anything is possible when building from a blank shell.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:56 PM   #59
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I purchased a New Diamond cargo trailer where their web page prides themselves on quality.

What a piece of crap.

Took the walls off inside to insulate and make an RV, finding:

-The fenders where screwed only into the thin outer metal. They missed the welded in supports by 2 inches.
-The floor was installed at an angle. Thus one side had gap of 1 inch at the front and the other side had a gap of 1 inch at the rear...behind the walls.
-The clearance light wires were rubbing against the ruff edges of the punched holes.
-The only ground screw was on the underside of the trailer where the most dirt hits it. After 6 months it failed.
-The vertical metal studs were not box material...it is some sort of Z shape and unpainted.
-Having to remove the floor and redo it with new plywood of correct size...noticed the undercoating was only applied to the front of cross members of the frame. The rear was paint free and rusting.

Further more:

-The brakes were way out of adjustment.
-Every self tapping outside wall screw had a twist of raw metal spun around it that began to rust and would catch your wash cloth...or finger!
-The roof seam began to pull the goop apart after the second year leaving big gaps.
-The bias ply tire were shot in no time at all.
-The roof vent crumbled after 7 years...even though it is has a tarp on it 5 months of each year.

Cargo trailers can have major problems as well...

My time would have been much better spent in redoing a larger Boler like/style trailer.

And yes Donna I have a full write up with pictures on that great conversation forum...somewhere.
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Old 10-24-2020, 07:32 AM   #60
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I purchased a New Diamond cargo trailer where their web page prides themselves on quality.

What a piece of crap.

Here is an interesting question, why is it that the cargo and RV trailer industry is largely dominated by low quality manufacturers?


Other high cost items have certainly had periods of low quality. Cars of the 1970's and even 1980's were essentially junk by today's standards. But buyers rebelled and voted for better quality with their wallets.



It seems like for about 90% of the customers out there, the #1 priority in any trailer is price, and the manufacturers are mostly responding to that. Anyone who has owned an RV from the big players in the business has seen a million things like you detailed on that cargo trailer. Nobody would accept a car built like that, so why does the market largely accept poorly made trailers?
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