Fire Extinguisher Upgrade

[Earl]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I think there's a better chance of having a kitchen fire than just about any other kind... and that goes for sticks 'n brick homes too. The ETI supplied fire extinguisher fills the need to put it out.

For kitchen fires look up "fire blanket" on Amazon. Mount on wall near stove. Grab the two tabs and pull, hold the blanket between you and the fire (hands on tabs away from the fire) and smother the fire.

Have one in my kitchen, but have not used. First saw on canal boats in England; think they are required there.

Think they would work fine to cover a fire in a pan. Not a replacement for an extinguisher, but gives one another first response option for some fires.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Who to believe. Some guy on the net or the people that make them.

"Mac McCoy served 33 years in the fire service.

He holds a BS degree in Fire Science and a Masters degree in Fire Administration.

Mac has served as a firefighter, paramedic, Captain, Assistant Chief of Training, Deputy Sheriff, and for 12 years as the Fire Training Coordinator of Oregon's Fire Marshall's Office and Public Safety Academy.* During his tenure with Oregon Fire Marshall's Office, Mac helped pioneer the states HAZMAT program.

Mac has taught civilians, military, firefighters and law enforcement firefighting skills and techniques in the United States and abroad."

I'm guessing he's not just 'some guy on the net', and I'm also guessing the gal at Kidde was told to tell you that. I know, I'm reaching.

[StarvingHyena]

This is such a good thread to discuss and think about. Fire extinguishers are so important as they may save your life or property yet most often they are placed in some corner, out of the way and could be there for years gathering dust.

Earlier I mentioned replacing them once a year and I do that still and think its a very good idea. I picked up the once a year replacement timing because that was a US Coast Guard requirement for both recreational and commercial boats. A boat was a home for me for over 20 years... now I live on land. Sigh

Any way I tend to buy a new extinguisher every year and mount it in my most vulnerable location. The newest one goes in that vulnerable location and the next newest rotates to the next less vulnerable location and so on. My shop measures 60'X30' with a 14' ceiling - I have 4 - 5lb. extinguishers in there and I should have more.

I was just on the US Coast Guard web site checking to see if they still are requiring less than 1 year old extinguishers on boats and found this:

"Kidde recalls plastic valve disposable fire extinguishers

A faulty valve component can cause the disposable fire extinguishers not to fully discharge when the lever is repeatedly pressed and released during a fire emergency, posing a risk of injury. This recall involves 31 models of Kidde disposable fire extinguishers with Zytel black plastic valves. The recalled extinguishers are red, white, or silver and are either ABC or BC rated. For more details http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2015/...Extinguishers/ "

This recall was released sometime in 2015. How old are your fire extinguishers?

Tom

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by StarvingHyena

This is such a good thread to discuss and think about. Fire extinguishers are so important as they may save your life or property yet most often they are placed in some corner, out of the way and could be there for years gathering dust.

Earlier I mentioned replacing them once a year and I do that still and think its a very good idea. I picked up the once a year replacement timing because that was a US Coast Guard requirement for both recreational and commercial boats. A boat was a home for me for over 20 years... now I live on land. Sigh

Any way I tend to buy a new extinguisher every year and mount it in my most vulnerable location. The newest one goes in that vulnerable location and the next newest rotates to the next less vulnerable location and so on. My shop measures 60'X30' with a 14' ceiling - I have 4 - 5lb. extinguishers in there and I should have more.

I was just on the US Coast Guard web site checking to see if they still are requiring less than 1 year old extinguishers on boats and found this:

"Kidde recalls plastic valve disposable fire extinguishers

A faulty valve component can cause the disposable fire extinguishers not to fully discharge when the lever is repeatedly pressed and released during a fire emergency, posing a risk of injury. This recall involves 31 models of Kidde disposable fire extinguishers with Zytel black plastic valves. The recalled extinguishers are red, white, or silver and are either ABC or BC rated. For more details http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2015/...Extinguishers/ "

This recall was released sometime in 2015. How old are your fire extinguishers?

Tom

Thankyou Tom for this important information PT

[advenas]

I know the one in my Escape is new because I just got delivery. However, after seeing the RV fire this weekend I want a bigger fire extinguisher. Not only for myself but for a fellow traveler who might have a fire in an RV or TV.

I realized while the fire extinguisher in my truck camper says it is still charged...it's a 2002 model. So it's time to replace that one also. While I'm at it I'll buy another one for the truck and for my Subaru. I'd like to have one or two fire extinguishers handy for helping someone else. Like the guy I witnessed this past weekend who had his motor home burn up. Might have been able to slow down or extinguish the fire. I know he'd likely be appreciative for at least trying.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Have you changed out your extinguisher since new? It would be interesting to see what would happen if you, or anyone else, did a trial run with an old extinguisher to see how well it works.

Is there an expiry date on them. I have to admit to never really paying attention to them, other than ensuring I have them.

It would be a good idea to put one in the truck too.

In my 2014 I have the little First Alert, no date on it. The manufacturer says it has a 10 year warranty. It's only a 5BC, a 10 should fit no problem, there's plenty of room where it's mounted for a somewhat bigger unit.

[StarvingHyena]

I think a "fire put out" would be a great Rally exercise .... that is if a rally location would allow you to have an outdoor fire and allow the mess from the extinguisher. I'd love to try a foam extinguisher as Robert described. Maybe right after the nut torque contest .... in case someone in the heat of the contest gets a little too frisky with their wrench.

Tom

I think Alf is right. Perhaps I misspoke referring to the place where Escape mounts our fire extinguishers. I was thinking orientation ... a verticle mount. Where Escape has their extinguishers mounted is the best place. In case of fire it gets you near the door to get out and away and in case a neighbor's trailer is on fire ... an easy reach inside to grab the extinguisher to defend your neighbor or your own trailer because of his fire. I still think that the supplied extinguisher is too small. Maybe a small foam extinguisher near / in the galley and a larger one by the door would be a good idea. I think Donna is right in that a galley fire is the most likely ... but I would hate to squirt a dry chemical there as it would ruin my dinner. Wonder what foam tastes like?

Somehow I don't worry much about myself ... its always the other guy to watch out for .... just like driving on winters first snow. Never mind that I have caught my shop on fire twice and my boat once ... all self inflicted because the 'impossible' just happened. Luckily very minimal damage.

[Donna D.]

Probably few people are as paranoid about fire as I am. I have third degree burn scars on my neck, chest and thighs from trying to put out a fire. Little did I know, I was on fire. Doesn't hurt much with all the adrenaline until later... Even after camping and camp fire smoke, I have to put Mentholatum on my nostrils so I can sleep, otherwise I wake up in the middle of the night thinking the house is on fire... just from smoke in my nose. Sigh.

Anyway... I believe in having what you need... and that's enough. I'm not going to load up the trailer or tug or even my home because of any possibility of fighting a fire I have no business fighting. YMMV

[arniesea]

Originally Posted by StarvingHyena

I think a "fire put out" would be a great Rally exercise .... that is if a rally location would allow you to have an outdoor fire and allow the mess from the extinguisher. I'd love to try a foam extinguisher as Robert described. Maybe right after the nut torque contest .... in case someone in the heat of the contest gets a little too frisky with their wrench.

Tom
.

Tom, that is a great idea! Nothing like real world experience to give one confidence in the chaos of a real emergency.

Before I retired, I was a member of our corporate Emergency Response Team. As part of our training, we went the the King County fire training facility in North Bend Washington. They had a street with curb and gutter and a burned out car. They dumped several gallons of gasoline from the car running down the gutter then set it on fire. In teams of two with a fire extinguisher each, we had to put out the burning gas. I learned that with proper technique, it's possible to put out burning gasoline, drive it back up the gutter to the source and put out the fire. It is an experience I will never forget! (We also entered smoke filled buildings with full SCBA gear and rescued "firehose dummy victims" down 3 flights of stairs.)

Thanks to all for this thread! I now have it on my to do list to replace my aging extinguishers!

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Mac has served as a firefighter, paramedic, Captain, Assistant Chief of Training, Deputy Sheriff, and for 12 years as the Fire Training Coordinator of Oregon's Fire Marshall's Office and Public Safety Academy.* During his tenure with Oregon Fire Marshall's Office, Mac helped pioneer the states HAZMAT program.

I don't see chemical engineer in that resume.
I covered a lot of fires. I've seen "crispy critters" at a house fire. Mom, dad and the kid, so I take fire seriously. I have three smoke alarms, a CO alarm and five fire extinguishers in a 800 sq. ft. house.
But, I will believe Kidde when they say you don't need to agitate a fire extinguisher.
On the other hand, probably should store fire extinguisher in a bag of rice to remove moisture and prevent caking.

[arniesea]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Probably few people are as paranoid about fire as I am. I have third degree burn scars on my neck, chest and thighs from trying to put out a fire. Little did I know, I was on fire. Doesn't hurt much with all the adrenaline until later... Even after camping and camp fire smoke, I have to put Mentholatum on my nostrils so I can sleep, otherwise I wake up in the middle of the night thinking the house is on fire... just from smoke in my nose. Sigh.

Anyway... I believe in having what you need... and that's enough. I'm not going to load up the trailer or tug or even my home because of any possibility of fighting a fire I have no business fighting. YMMV

Donna, I'm so sorry that happened. Your story is a great example of why emergency training is so important. And if one is not trained, to get out of danger, now!

One of the key things we were taught in our ERT training that that in the chaos of danger, one's focus narrows and rational action is compromised. Those elements are still in play even with training but one's chances for better decisions are enhanced. That is why first responders always have an Incident Commander in radio communication safely away from danger making the strategic decisions for the team.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

... I will believe Kidde when they say you don't need to agitate a fire extinguisher.

It isn't just Mac. Plenty of folks (myself included) have tried to put out a fire with a dry chemical disposable, only to find that it won't expel the material properly because it's compressed/caked at the bottom of the cylinder from years of storage. A chemical engineering degree is a fine thing, for sure, but real world experience has tremendous value as well. Mac has put out so many fires with dry chemicals over many decades of demonstrations that he permanently damaged his lungs from breathing in the powder. Part of the reason he recommends and sells foam ones instead.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Part of the reason he recommends and sells foam ones instead.

Aha.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Earl

For kitchen fires look up "fire blanket" on Amazon. Mount on wall near stove. Grab the two tabs and pull, hold the blanket between you and the fire (hands on tabs away from the fire) and smother the fire.

Have one in my kitchen, but have not used. First saw on canal boats in England; think they are required there.

Think they would work fine to cover a fire in a pan. Not a replacement for an extinguisher, but gives one another first response option for some fires.

Good idea. Will look for those.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Since learning about Mac the Fire Guy, we dont use dry chemical extinguishers. Even in a small fire, while the dry chemical can extinguish the fire, the powder is toxic.

Not all dry chemical extinguishing powder is the same. Using Mac's own definitions:

BC dry powder extinguisher is the most common and least expensive extinguisher. The material used in this type of extinguisher is non-toxic Sodium Bicarbonate...

ABC dry chemical extinguisher is the second most common extinguisher used in motor homes. The material used in this type of extinguisher is Monoammonium Phosphate. This material has a Hazardous Material Identification System number of HMIS 1-0-0. These numbers mean the material is a Hazardous Material that is toxic...

If toxicity is your concern, you can just use the (less effective) plain BC type. If what's burning is wood, spray plain water on it instead.

The foam type is interesting, if you are confident that you won't be using it on an electrical fire (class C) and are careful not to spread an oil or grease fire with a blast from it. The little spray can unit in the image - one sold by Mac - doesn't appear to have a rating on it, and the other similar products that I could find don't either; I suspect that the rating is very low, so you spend several seconds exhausting it, then either be thankful that it was enough... or run.

I am quite suspicious of any claim by Consumer Reports, but their article on this type of product (now a few years old) is interesting reading:
An aerosol fire spray is no substitute for a fire extinguisher

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by StarvingHyena

I think a "fire put out" would be a great Rally exercise .... that is if a rally location would allow you to have an outdoor fire and allow the mess from the extinguisher.

I certainly wouldn't want a fire fighting training exercise conducted in any campground that I was in or managed, but it could be a great side-trip to a more suitable location. Lots of industrial facilities do this sort of training routinely... at least in areas with industrial activity. One thing to watch, though, is that many of them are focused on flammable liquids, which is is not the typical RV scenario.

[richardr]

I had two 1A10BC extinguishers in our Casita, one by the door and one by the bed as recommended by Larry Gamble of Little House Customs. I bought 2 for our Escape 21 and will put one by the door and the other by the dinette. I check them every month and hit the bottom with a rubber mallet to make sure the powder is loose. This is probably an overkill, but with the window exit being much too hard for the average retired person to get out, I like the extra protection.

[padlin]

Replaced the 4 year old +/- stock extinguisher with a bigger one today, about double the contents. Fired off the stock extinguisher today just to see how long it'd last, got 10 seconds from it.