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Old 05-12-2024, 08:23 PM   #1
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Smile Ford F150 Purchase Questions (for Escape 5.0)

Thanks to everyone who responded to my initial post. The information has been very helpful. For background, we have never owned a truck or an RV, and have never towed anything. We are researching ordering a 2024 Ford F150 and an Escape 5.0. Our goal is to camp at state and national parks in our local state of Washington and adjacent states. We are getting too old to continue to tent camp.

We will have a B&W gooseneck kit and an Andersen hitch installed at our local RV shop. By the way, the shop owner gave Escape trailers a double thumbs-up!

Based on everyone’s input and our research to date, we are planning to purchase the following:
  • Ford F150, most likely XLT but maybe Lariat
  • 3.5L EcoBoost
  • 3.55 Axle
  • Tow/Haul Package, but not Max Tow
  • 10 speed transmission
  • Power folding tow mirrors
  • Heads-up display plus fixed running boards
  • Trailer TPMS, customer placed trailer camera
  • 1800+ lb. payload (A nice XLT at the dealer was 1890 lbs)
We still have some open questions, some of which are interrelated:
  • 4x4 vs. 4x2: We are leaning toward 4x4 since this is most likely to be available. Out local Ford dealer had no 4x2’s and said they almost never get them.
  • 5.5’ vs 6.5’ bed: We are leaning toward 6.5’ bed based on the recommendation of our local RV shop that will install the gooseneck hitch. Is the 6.5’ bed required for a 36-gallon fuel tank?
  • Supercab vs. Supercrew: We haven’t seen a Supercab yet except online videos. The local Ford dealer almost never gets this model. They seem to primarily sell 4x4 Supercrew (they had about eight in stock). Any thoughts?
  • Wheelbase: Still unclear about which way to go, but we understand that longer is better for stable towing and shorter is better for maneuverability and parking. Anything else to consider?
  • XLT vs. Lariat: We have to have adaptive cruise control, does this require Lariat? Are there any “must have” options for 5th wheel towing that cannot be added to an XLT trim?
One last item is regarding negotiating a purchase price. It seems that ordering a truck gives more advantage to the dealer. Is our only leverage to shop a set of truck specs to different Ford dealers? I’m not much of a negotiator, for our recent auto purchases we have used the Costco buying service. Any suggestions?

I’m very grateful for any thoughts, cautions, and insight that this group can provide!

We plan to visit the Escape factory within the next 4-6 weeks, and I’m planning to seek the wisdom of the group regarding “must have” options once we get to that stage.

Washington State RV Novice
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Old 05-12-2024, 10:23 PM   #2
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Usually, ordering will give you a better price.

Around 10% under MSRP, or around 4% under invoice is a good target these days........
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Old 05-12-2024, 11:12 PM   #3
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I agree with 7Gentex; ordering from the factory allows you to get exactly what you want, usually for much less than what local dealers charge. Check out the posts on Granger Motors: https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ase-25230.html
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Old 05-13-2024, 02:25 AM   #4
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Notes for your consideration (confirm all with your dealer of course) ....
  • Power folding tow mirrors - Power folding only on Lariat and higher
  • Heads-up display - only on Platinum
  • Is the 6.5’ bed required for a 36-gallon fuel tank? - No, it's standard with any of the cabs, beds, and trims you are considering
  • 4x4 vs. 4x2 - note that the XLT & lower 4WD system ("ESOF") can only be used on 'loose surfaces' and not at highway speeds (NOT intended for driving on wet pavement). The Lariat and higher 4WD system ("TOD") includes the "4-Auto" setting, Ford's version of 'full-time-all-wheel-drive', which can be used on any surface at any speed (e.g dry or wet pavement / inconsistent fringe conditions). IF considering 4WD, the IMO the latter system is much preferred for all uses. And yes, the Ford retail website as well as many dealer salespeople are sorely lacking explanation / information about these significant 4WD system differences (the owner's manual which can be downloaded online at least has decent information about the limitations of each).
  • Supercab vs. Supercrew - SuperCab only available with XLT and lower
  • Wheelbase - Dictated by cab & bed combination, the shortest you are considering (SuperCab w/6.5' box OR SuperCrew w/5.5' box) will have a 145" WB and will handle a 5.0 wonderfully (many here have one of those combinations). Note that a SuperCrew w/6.5' box has a 157" WB and can make maneuvering in parking lots (ahem) 'sporting' even without a trailer. IMO there's no meaningful 'stability' difference between the two when towing any of the Escape trailers (relatively short and light compared to much of the RV market at large).
Just FYI I'm one of the many extremely satisfied custom-order customers of Granger Ford (best no-hassle / no-shenanigans / no-negotiating vehicle buying experience of my life).

4% Under Invoice on any 2024 F-150 Order at Granger Ford
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Old 05-13-2024, 07:03 AM   #5
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Hi rvnovice

You are in for quite an adventure with the new truck and camper. I envy you the new experiences. I fondly remember when we were first learning about Escape trailers.

I have never owned a Ford but I have owned trucks all my life so I can weigh-in on a couple of your questions, albeit with qualifications.

4x4 vs 4x2: I think this depends on a few factors: where you live, what the driving conditions are like, your intended use for the truck when not towing, etc. Personally, I live on the prairies in Canada where it can be cold, snowy and icy at any time for half the year. I use my truck as a daily driver altho I'm retired and don't commute. When conditions are bad I am shifting in and out of 4x4 all the time for traction when I need it. That also applies on the highway so I value 4x4 I can use any time, just not on dry pavement. Obviously the driving conditions in Washington state may be different so you need to assess that aspect for yourself.
I am one truck owner who believes it is better to have 4x4 and not need it than to not have it and need it. 4x4 has saved me some headaches many times. Even if I only ever stayed on paved roads and camped in well maintained and level parks (which I don't), the yard where I store my trailer is uneven and slippery when wet. 4x4 has come in handy there several times.

5.5' vs 6.5' This may be different for Fords but I had quite a challenge when I tried to get a hitch installer to put my 5th wheel hitch in my second short box truck, even though I had the measurements of where I wanted it installed and it had come out of the exact same model truck. The instructions on all the rail kits said they were not intended for a 5.5' box. Common wisdom says a truck with a 5.5' box in not suitable for hauling a 5th wheel trailer. Of course, we know that is not always true but I needed to search for a shop here that would do a custom instal for me. The shop near ETI in Chilliwack is well acquainted with Escape trailers and installed my first hitch as a matter of course. Ppl here with Fords may have had different experiences.
As far as functionality, my 5.5' boxes have been perfectly fine for my 5.0TA.

That's my input. There are lots of Ford owners here so you should get plenty of info.
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Old 05-13-2024, 11:13 AM   #6
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Our F150 has the 3.55 ratio. That means you can easily drive 80 mph at lower rpm's. Trouble is, 3.55 is too high for our driving a camper. We always lock out 10th gear at 70 mph and under. We'd be better off with a 4.11 rear end (not available) or a 3.73 rear end to better use the entire 10 speeds of the F150's transmission.

For us, well over 90% of our miles are pulling our camper, so the 3.55 is a waste of energy for a vehicle that will never go over 80 mph, much less 70 mph. We either drive 57 mph (rural two lane roads) or 62 mph (4 lane roads), and only drive over 62 mph in urban areas where 62 would impede traffic, creating a danger.

On the farm we always had 4.11 rear ends, and never drove much over 65 mph. We once purchased a pickup with a lower numerically rear end and it sucked pulling 40,000# wagons. Within a week the rear end was changed for a lower 4.11 rear end. Our 2019 F150 is out of warranty, so perhaps I can change the ratio to 4.11?

Think twice about your final drive ratio. We have a 3.55 and definitely lose 10th gear. Plus, a 3.73 will have a closer ratio between gears, improving gas mileage very slightly, will be slightly easier on the engine, and accelerate slightly faster. For us, we plan on driving our 2019 for well over 200,000 miles or more, so the 3.73 makes better sense.

Food for thought,,

Perry
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Old 05-13-2024, 02:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Our F150 has the 3.55 ratio. ..... We'd be better off with a 4.11 rear end (not available) or a 3.73 rear end to better use the entire 10 speeds of the F150's transmission. ....
Just FYI, for the 2024 model year the only ratios available with the 3.5 EcoBoost are 3.31 and 3.55:1.

When one orders the only available Tow/Haul package with the 3.5EB, the included axle is the 3.55:1 with Electronic Locking.

I find that my 3.5EB with 3.55:1 axle will pull strong in 10th gear when towing on level ground and some grades, but the turbo boost is definitely in play; by manually locking the tranny out of 10, and sometimes 9, of course the RPMs increase but much less boost is used (perhaps resulting in slightly better mileage). YMMV based on specific conditions.
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Old 05-13-2024, 05:10 PM   #8
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Just FYI, for the 2024 model year the only ratios available with the 3.5 EcoBoost are 3.31 and 3.55:1.

I find that my 3.5EB with 3.55:1 axle will pull strong in 10th gear when towing on level ground and some grades, but the turbo boost is definitely in play; by manually locking the tranny out of 10, and sometimes 9, of course the RPMs increase but much less boost is used (perhaps resulting in slightly better mileage). YMMV based on specific conditions.
Too bad they only offer the 3.55, probably because most F150's are just urban commuters today. I know we had the 3.73 option with either/both our 2015 and 2019 F150's.

I won't lug my 3.5 engine as that actually lowers the gas mileage and reduces engine life. YMMV. At 1,500 rpm's I'm downshifting our 3.5 to a rpm from 1,600-2,000 rpm's and the 3.5 runs smoother that those speeds.

Enjoy,

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Old 05-13-2024, 09:49 PM   #9
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I am very happy with the 3.55 gears in our 2016 6-Speed F150. Our top speed towing on a 70 MPH highway is 65.. I typically like to stay around 60-62 on 65 mph highway and 50-55 on 55 mph roads. These speeds work well with the 3.55's. If I feel more rpm is required I either lock out gears or manually change gearing. I find this workable on 40-45 mph roads where the elevation changes quickly.

Turbo (3.5 EB) motors are designed to operate at graduated lower rpm's changes but Ford's 6-Speeds are not good at instantaneous speed changes without in your face turbo spool accelerations. That's where manual gear changes work well.

I've had a few F150's over the years and have always like their 3.55's. It's a nice in between gear. Not too high, not too low and is tough as nails.

3.73's or 4.11's are too high for me.
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Old 05-13-2024, 10:27 PM   #10
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My thoughts owning a F150 XLT Supercab with 6.5" box. I wanted a proper truck box and 5.5" wasn't sufficient. Not needing the 4 door I get the added space with the supercab, the 6.5 box I wanted and not the lengthy supercrew/6.5. I would suggest if possible when ordering to check on payload outcome with model and options. You may see quite a difference with lowering payload with optioned models. Just pop in to a dealership and wander through lot looking at door stickers.
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Old 05-14-2024, 06:45 AM   #11
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I am very happy with the 3.55 gears in our 2016 6-Speed F150. Our top speed towing on a 70 MPH highway is 65.. I typically like to stay around 60-62 on 65 mph highway and 50-55 on 55 mph roads. These speeds work well with the 3.55's. If I feel more rpm is required I either lock out gears or manually change gearing. I find this workable on 40-45 mph roads where the elevation changes quickly.

Turbo (3.5 EB) motors are designed to operate at graduated lower rpm's changes but Ford's 6-Speeds are not good at instantaneous speed changes without in your face turbo spool accelerations. That's where manual gear changes work well.

I've had a few F150's over the years and have always like their 3.55's. It's a nice in between gear. Not too high, not too low and is tough as nails.

3.73's or 4.11's are too high for me.

Its hard to compare the newer 10spd operation to the older 6spd. I had the original 3:31 gears swapped for 3:73's prior to beginning to tow with our truck and it made a world of difference, even unloaded the truck feels much more powerful.

The current 10spd auto's have vastly different ratios than our older 6spd autos. The lower gears are much lower than ours and the top gear is taller than 6spd. The 10spd has 3 OD gears where our 6spd has 2 OD. The top gear is a full 10% lower in 10th gear than our older 6spd's, so a modern 10spd truck with 3:73's will be at nearly the same RPM's on the freeway as our older trucks with 3:31's in the differential. I am jealous of that fact in the newer trucks, but the 6spd is a tough tranny and doesn't do the skip shift thing. Its my understanding that the 10spd will never sequentially shift through all 10 gears.

Here's a link to a ratio chart for the OP if they'd like to compare highway RPM's with different gears in the 10spd. It also shows the older 6spd auto as a comparison. Note*** The person that created the chart put different MPH's in for the two transmissions so its hard to make an RPM comparison.
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Old 05-14-2024, 09:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Too bad they only offer the 3.55
Perhaps, but it is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Butler View Post
I won't lug my 3.5 engine as that actually lowers the gas mileage and reduces engine life. YMMV. At 1,500 rpm's I'm downshifting our 3.5 to a rpm from 1,600-2,000 rpm's and the 3.5 runs smoother that those speeds.
I generally agree, of course the engine load as a function of weight, grade, etc. has a bearing on 'lugging'. I find the 10-speed's control strategy does a pretty good job of gear selection to avoid that. But like you, when I disagree with what it selects it's easy to downshift 1 or more gears using the button on the shifter.

As I'm sure you know, one can also play with the Tow/Haul mode button which among other things alters the shifting strategy to some degree. Sometimes I use that mode, sometimes not (I tend to use it in hilly+ terrain, not so much in flat terrain, YMMV).

All-and-all I'm OK with the available 3.55:1 axle ratio, it certainly doesn't give me cause to regret buying the truck! Because I use my truck for both unladen daily driving and towing the 3:55 ratio is probably a good fit for me (again, YMMV).

Just for fun, here's a random fantasy comparison built using the nifty calculator linked in the previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamberman View Post
Thanks for that fun link, Chamberman. More than a chart, it's an interactive spreadsheet!
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Old 05-14-2024, 11:35 AM   #13
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About 2024 F150 Tailgate options (and frustrating caveat emptor)

More just FYI ....

Starting with the current Job #2 orders, the XLT comes with the traditional 1-piece drop-down tailgate. That can be had with the nice built-in tailgate step by ordering the Bed Utility Package (order code 68L). No problem, it's a nice tailgate and nifty step IMO, it's what many of us have and like on our 2021-2023 F150s of all trim levels.

Starting with the current Job #2 orders, Ford has 'introduced' (keep reading) the new 'Pro Access Tailgate' (aka "PAT") which offers a middle-section swing-door or drop-down operation. See this Motor Trend article for an explanation.

The PAT is an option on the Lariat, included with the Bed Utility Package 68L on that trim. If you don't order option 68L on a Lariat, you'll get the traditional drop-down tailgate.

The Bed Utility Package with PAT is included with King Ranch and higher trims.

Now the frustrating part ....

As of this date Ford is having problems with production of the PAT. No trucks have actually been delivered with that tailgate. Folks who have ordered trucks with the PAT are currently suffering an open-ended delay in delivery of their trucks. At this time there is no known date for this to be resolved. Nor is Ford currently offering a work-around for the higher trim trucks (e.g. building with the traditional tailgate, an alternative they offered for a short while but for some 'reason' stopped in April ).

The caveat emptor part ....

Unless one really, really wants the PAT, one should not order a Lariat with the Bed Utility Package 68L, nor a King-ranch or higher trim. IF one really wants the PAT, be prepared to wait an indefinite time for delivery of your truck.

All of this is subject to change, consult with your knowledgeable dealer if / when you order.

Yeah, Ford has some real issues to deal with these days
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Old 05-14-2024, 02:33 PM   #14
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Thanks for that fun link, Chamberman. More than a chart, it's an interactive spreadsheet!
I knew it was interactive at some point but it was showing locked and I was in a hurry to leave for work so I didn't investigate. Now that you posted I see its downloadable which allows you to unlock it. Thx for prodding me!

Yes, fun to play with and see how changes vary things. Because GM uses the same 10spd auto this should be useful for GM vehicles with the 10spd for those folks that want to know how going from 3.23 to 3.42 to 3.73, etc will look.
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Old 05-24-2024, 03:24 PM   #15
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I was in a similar situation. I bought a 2023 F150 Lariat Hybrid with 3.5L Powerboost 7.2KW ONBOARD GEN and 6.5 bed. I am very pleased with the truck. I bought it to pull my four month old 5.0 and decided to get the E23 a week after receipt of my trailer. Nothing wrong with the 5.0 but wife likes the design of the E23. You can’t go wrong with your decision.

Good luck to you and maybe I will see you out and about.
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Old 05-25-2024, 01:15 AM   #16
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As I said on your previous thread, we really like the super crew cab for our dog’s kennel, plus it’s a roomy back seat for taking guests along for the ride. We typically camp with friends whose “RV” is a van; numerous opportunities for us to do a day trip in our F-150 so their van can stay (leveled) in the campground. YMMV
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Old 05-25-2024, 03:19 PM   #17
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The main reason we choose Lariat over the XLT was the 4A drive mode. We live in an area that has two lane country roads that experience a lot of drifting in the winter and it was important for us to be able to have a vehicle that has the 4A so when driving on dry pavement and you come around a bend in the road to find it has drifted with snow is a great piece of security/safety. When be ordered ours in 2022 the XLT did not have the 4A, just Lariat and above.

As far as the 4x4, I don't think a 4x2 's are even sold around here. It would have to ordered that way.
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Old 05-25-2024, 03:31 PM   #18
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,,, When be ordered ours in 2022 the XLT did not have the 4A, just Lariat and above. ...
True for all years from 2021 through 2024, too.
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Old 05-25-2024, 03:34 PM   #19
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No place I’ve lived keeps 4x2’s on the lot. Growing up everything was 2wd. Now everyone but me wants 4wd. I always have to order to get 2WD.
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Old 05-25-2024, 04:59 PM   #20
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No place I’ve lived keeps 4x2’s on the lot. Growing up everything was 2wd. Now everyone but me wants 4wd. I always have to order to get 2WD.
I know you drive a Ranger and I'm not sure what's available in that line for 2024, but in the case of the F150 line, Ford completely dropped 2WD as an option for Lariat and higher trims.

Yet again, market demand and cost cutting in play, much to the chagrin of niche buyers.

Choices were good, a bit less-so now it seems.
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