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Old 01-30-2021, 09:13 AM   #21
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This is an interesting discussion, but I think it has very little to do with what a person will buy as a tow vehicle "today". 2035 -- 14 years out. Batteries will need to get significantly better in that time period. Right now, a Tesla with the largest battery will go as far as 400 miles if it is driven "lightly". If you put it under stress and drive it hard, that mileage will drop to about 100 miles. Clearly not a good scenario for towing.

I firmly believe "commuter" cars will jump to all electric very quickly; vehicles that tow will be the last to change over - there will be some very interesting hybrid examples over the next 14 years I'm sure.

Electric is the future for sure, but I don't think it's going to affect my purchase for a Tow vehicle in 2021.
The interesting development I've seen building in driving heavy-duty equipment is hydrogen. Even diesel maker Cummins is working on hydrogen.

Both electric and hydrogen need lots of infrastructure support.
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Old 02-15-2021, 12:58 PM   #22
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And now it’s Jaguar/ Land Rover




“One luxury car brand says it is going electric.

On Monday, auto manufacturer Jaguar Land Rover announced that its entire vehicle line would be electric by 2025.”


The British firm also plans to largely electrify its Land Rover SUV brand over the next decade in an effort to “reimagine” both labels as environmentally friendly businesses.
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Old 02-15-2021, 01:03 PM   #23
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On Monday, auto manufacturer Jaguar Land Rover announced that its entire vehicle line would be electric by 2025.”

Where do you find a charger in the middle of the Serengeti?
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Old 02-15-2021, 01:06 PM   #24
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Where do you find a charger in the middle of the Serengeti?
No idea but the word ‘largely electrify’ may well be the answer.

Locally, most Land Rovers never get dirty.
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Old 02-15-2021, 04:53 PM   #25
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Where do you find a charger in the middle of the Serengeti?
Hi: gbaglo... Glad it's not just me!!! How much electricity is really "Green". A lot is still made burning fossil fuels and nuclear with all its waste. There's still a bunch of bucks to be made making candles and extension cords. Alf
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Old 02-15-2021, 05:15 PM   #26
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Where do you find a charger in the middle of the Serengeti?
Where do you find a gas / diesel station in the middle of the Serengeti?

Infrastructures get built in accordance with demand; long-range vision is the mother of progress; there will always be those who throw-up silly nay-saying 'obstacles' which only serve to incite and encourage true visionaries to achieve success.

And yes, the measure of 'success' is constantly evolving. Clearly the ~120-year success of fossil-fueled transportation, with all of the tremendous advances it has supported, has had it's costs and those costs have become untenable for the long-range future. IMO.
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Old 02-15-2021, 05:46 PM   #27
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Where do you find a gas / diesel station in the middle of the Serengeti?

You carry what will be needed with you in cans or barrels. I haven't been there in 50 years, but I doubt the infrastructure has improved all that much.
I remember pushing the bus out of the mudhole and people riding on the roof with the luggage, but strangely, I don't remember dad gassing up the VW Kombi.
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Old 02-15-2021, 06:14 PM   #28
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A friend of mine was in the peace corps in Africa. He had a Citroen They had removed the rear seat and put several cans of fuel in place of the seat. I asked him about the danger and he said “Lots of people did it “. Guess that made it ok.

He had a heck of a collection of spears and arrows that people gave him and that he bought while there. He had a couple bows too. They looked like toys compared to my full recurve He had little tiny arrows with hammered steel points. Said they were for hunting duiker.
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Old 02-15-2021, 06:16 PM   #29
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Could it be dik dik? Really small antelope.
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Old 02-15-2021, 06:30 PM   #30
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Hi Glenn
I had to look it up. This guy pronounced it “die car” it was indeed a very small antelope and I think there are various spellings. He was a fine track athlete in high school and college. It was very hot where he worked. He was talking to some of the natives and learned they were distance runners. They offered to let him run with them. To beat the heat they took off on their run a couple hours before it got light. They started running but Lyle couldn’t keep up. First he could just see them ahead in the moonlight, then just their footfalls for a couple minutes and finally nothing. As he started walking back to his village a lion roared in the distance. Lyle said it was the scariest thing he ever heard. Briefly the friends came back looking for him and laughing about not noticing him missing and they had heard the lion too, laughed when he said he was scared. He had fond memories of his time there. I can’t remember where he was but it was hot and desert country.
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Old 02-15-2021, 06:35 PM   #31
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Perhaps this: A duiker is a small to medium-sized brown antelope native to sub-Saharan Africa, found in heavily wooded areas.
Wonder what they will think of all those electric Land Rovers charging around.?
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:11 PM   #32
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It always amazes me about animals that live on continents other than North America. You think you have heard of all of them and then find out you are pretty short on knowledge. Especially small deer type animals, small ground dwelling animals and the dozens of monkeys. We had 22 monkeys in our little zoo when I was park superintendent. I bought a few over the years. Notably two brothers the were DeBrazzas Guenons and a blonde spider monkey female who had several young while we had her.
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:48 PM   #33
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The interesting development I've seen building in driving heavy-duty equipment is hydrogen. Even diesel maker Cummins is working on hydrogen.

Both electric and hydrogen need lots of infrastructure support.
What an interesting subject and one that is near and dear to my heart!

I believe that in the end there will be a mixture of technologies which will power our personal vehicles, maybe all-electric for day to day vehicles and hybrids with hydrogen fuel for long distance transportation including commercial haulers, trains, buses and aircraft, who knows.

History is always a wonderful teacher and what I do know is that in the late 1800's and early 1900's there was an enormous industry around the horse and wagon technology, right down to the "buggy whips" and army of people that would clean the city streets of the rather inglorious "steamy mounds" left by the then state of the art transportation. AT the time there were many rich folk who would steam around in their newly invented "auto cars" but it seemed hard to believe at the time that they could ever manufacture these things for the general public? The along came Henry Ford; he didn't really care about skeptics because he invented the assembly line and mass production and figured out a way to make a new technology profitable and brought in the age of the automobile.

We are seeing the exact same thing now, a number of the major manufacturers fiddled around with electric car technologies through the years but it took a battery revolution; aka the lithium battery to bring these things into the realm of public affordability. Companies like Tesla have already brought costs down to about 150% of a comparable ICE vehicle but over the next 5 years as all the major players get involved you will see these vehicles overtake combustion cars in terms of cost, maintenance, and reliability, simple mass consumers math.

We almost bought an electric car as our second this year but decided on one more ICE car; the next one will for sure be electric. We are frugal consumer and I'll buy whatever cost me the least and provides dependable transport. As for out tow vehicle, its a Ford F150 exactly for the reasons stated in this forum. Electrics do not have anywhere near the range right now.
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:01 PM   #34
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History is always a wonderful teacher and what I do know is that in the late 1800's and early 1900's there was an enormous industry around the horse and wagon technology, right down to the "buggy whips" and army of people that would clean the city streets of the rather inglorious "steamy mounds" left by the then state of the art transportation.
It's funny I was just reading this evening in a history of older buildings in our province that in the 1920's we had about 306,000 horses and 610,000 people, one horse for every two people. During that time more mechanisation was coming to farming. One farmer was quoted as saying he thought that mechanical transportation would be popular except in the winter when horses would still be used because mechanical transport would be "impotent"
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Old 02-16-2021, 04:04 PM   #35
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... AT the time there were many rich folk who would steam around in their newly invented "auto cars" but it seemed hard to believe at the time that they could ever manufacture these things for the general public? The along came Henry Ford; he didn't really care about skeptics because he invented the assembly line and mass production and figured out a way to make a new technology profitable and brought in the age of the automobile.
Assembly lines (even specifically for cars) were developed long before the Ford Motor Company existed, and the developments at Ford were not invented by Henry Ford... but yes, Ford delivered a new level of affordability.

The adoption of EVs is fundamentally different from previous major shifts in automotive propulsion technology (horse drawn to steam and electric, and then to internal combustion engines) because this time it is being driven by governments rather than desired for its superiority, but as always the industry's work to reduce cost and improve all aspects of performance will make the transition desirable... and all the credit will go to those with the best public relations rather than those who actually do the work.
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Old 02-16-2021, 04:21 PM   #36
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Years ago I had oversight for a restored Victorian home that became a museum on the national register of historic places. After the turn of the century a succession of families lived in this grand home. There was a wooden garage adjacent to the home which was used for odd storage of outdoor items that were installed and removed seasonally.. There was a wooden floor in the garage with a round disc cutout in the center of the floor. The park guys had me step up onto the disc and then pushed on two parallel rails nailed to the disc. It rotated. Knowing they had 50 years of age on their new young boss, they asked me to guess the use of the disc. I did not know. So they explained that the matriarch of one of the families had owned an electric car. I think they said it was a Baker. The car did not have a reverse gear. So the lady drove the car in forward, got out and pushed on the car and turned it 180 degrees so it faced the door opening and she was ready for her next foray. Apparently if you got “parked in” you had to push your car back, turn the wheels toward the street and then drive out and away. I’ve seen a few electric cars in museums since but never another turntable garage floor.
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Old 02-16-2021, 04:32 PM   #37
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Hey, didn't the Russians invent everything?
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Old 02-16-2021, 04:52 PM   #38
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Nyet!

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Hey, didn't the Russians invent everything?

Nyet! Not yet.


Good luck with hydrogen fueled vehicles. Hydrogen is a medium for energy storage, but it has to be created. Simple enough...we can get all we want from water. But it takes energy, usually electricity, and a lot of it, to produce electrolysis to get the hydrogen produced.


And then there's the quirks of hydrogen. In piping it, hydrogen chews up metal by embrittlement. It is the smallest and simplest element, and even metal does not stop it's movement out of a pipe. In practical terms, that doesn't matter. My point is, it is a much different animal than fossil fuels. You HAVE to MAKE it, (not pump it out of the ground like oil) and then compress it enough to store it. And storage of hydrogen in a vehicle is another problematic issue. You just can't plop some hydrogen gas or liquid into a tank.
It can all be done technically, but its use in mass consumer markets, it will be an interesting experiment.



We do use it to power rocket ships effectively.



Maybe there's some gee whiz solution.
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Old 02-16-2021, 05:00 PM   #39
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...the matriarch of one of the families had owned an electric car. I think they said it was a Baker. The car did not have a reverse gear. So the lady drove the car in forward, got out and pushed on the car and turned it 180 degrees so it faced the door opening and she was ready for her next foray. Apparently if you got “parked in” you had to push your car back, turn the wheels toward the street and then drive out and away.
Interesting story ... and strange, since an electric motor can run in either direction - the type of that vintage would typically require just a switch - so unlike gas-engine cars they can reverse with a reverse gear in the transmission. Now I have to search for more about the Baker...
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Old 02-16-2021, 05:00 PM   #40
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Well, Airstream seems to be ready for the coming electric tow vehicles: Electric Powered Airstream
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