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Old 02-17-2021, 10:28 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER View Post
Good luck with hydrogen fueled vehicles. Hydrogen is a medium for energy storage, but it has to be created.
True! Just like the chemical energy storage in a charged battery.

Unfortunately, the efficiency of producing hydrogen from water by electrolysis, compressing or liquefying it, and making electricity from it, is much lower than the efficiency of battery storage.

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Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER View Post
Simple enough...we can get all we want from water. But it takes energy, usually electricity, and a lot of it, to produce electrolysis to get the hydrogen produced.
That's the dream, but most hydrogen is currently produced from methane (from natural gas).

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Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER View Post
And then there's the quirks of hydrogen. In piping it, hydrogen chews up metal by embrittlement. It is the smallest and simplest element, and even metal does not stop it's movement out of a pipe. In practical terms, that doesn't matter. My point is, it is a much different animal than fossil fuels. You HAVE to MAKE it, (not pump it out of the ground like oil) and then compress it enough to store it. And storage of hydrogen in a vehicle is another problematic issue. You just can't plop some hydrogen gas or liquid into a tank.
It can all be done technically, but its use in mass consumer markets, it will be an interesting experiment..
All (or at least mostly) valid concerns, but all can be handled, although at significant cost. Toyota has had its hydrogen fuel cell car (the Mirai) in the hands of thousands of consumers for years; like other similar vehicles, it carries about 5 kilograms of hydrogen at 700 times atmospheric pressure in tanks the size of a pickup truck fuel tank, but made of carbon fibre reinforced resin, lined with a polymer, and with a protective fiberglass outer layer, weighing about 80 kilograms. Not as heavy or bulky as a battery storing the same energy, but substantial and expensive.

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We do use it to power rocket ships effectively.
Some, notably the Saturn V that launched Apollo, the Space Shuttle (but not its boosters), and the coming Artemis program.

Rockets are fueled by cryogenic liquid hydrogen; hydrogen fuel cell cars carry the hydrogen as a highly compressed gas.

Kerosene is the more common rocket fuel. The company founded by the founder of Tesla Motors uses kerosene, and is switching to methane for the next series of rockets; maybe he doesn't mind burning fossil fuels after all.

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Maybe there's some gee whiz solution.
There are lots, such as materials that absorb the hydrogen, but none are really solutions.


It only takes a brief examination of alternatives like this to see why the problems of battery-electric vehicles might not be so bad.
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:34 PM   #62
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There is indeed some motive power in that category. Union Pacific's recently restored Big Boy 4-8-8-4 articulated steam locomotive uses recycled vegetable oil as fuel to boil the water to make steam to generate the roughly 6000 HP to do work!!!
That's where the "viable" part is important. That oil works in steam engines and even (after processing) in diesels, but there's little waste vegetable oil available compared to diesel fuel demand, and growing oilseed crops to produce it for fuel is not practical: that consumes far too much land... and too much fuel.
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:37 PM   #63
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Remember the Hindenburg.
The Hindenburg wasn't fueled by hydrogen, but if anyone proposes a hydrogen-fueled vehicle that carries the hydrogen in a giant unprotected bag made of flammable fabric, the Hindenburg will become relevant.
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Old 02-17-2021, 11:12 PM   #64
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I read an article a while ago, maybe last year written by a CEO of a BC utility. He stated that most older subdivisions could only support 3 charging stations. If wish I could find the article. I have been doing research on Tesla and am considering buying the stock. I am not interested in the cars but the Semi Trucks. They are the game changer.

Long term in the colder climate of Canada, I think the plug in hybrid is the winner because of the cold.
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Old 02-18-2021, 09:32 AM   #65
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Bakers

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All of the information I could find about Baker electrics suggested that they had reverse (by the method that I mentioned), so I suspect that the turntable was put in for a different vehicle, or just to save the driver from having to reverse.

Different vehicle technologies do require accommodations. At some point a generation of kids won't believe that our home garages didn't have charging stations, or that we went to public stations and poured volatile fuel into our vehicles. Well, they might believe the fuel part, if liquid fuels derived from plant material ever become viable (and yes, I know about ethanol and biodiesel, but the world really can't run on either of those).
Must not have been a Baker then. I started in the Parks in 1970. We had about 6 guys on the summer crew that were retired fellows I know one was 84 at the time and worked for me for several years. In the spring we were having lunch on the Thursday before Good Friday. Good Friday was a city holiday and the talk turned to Easter Sunday. One fellow said “Remember the Easter Sunday tornado that hit SW Iowa?” All the older fellows chimed in and all had stories of where they were and what they were doing at the time. When one guy mentioned “taking a team” to check on a neighbor I was alerted and asked what year the tornado was.
“Well 1913” they just about replied in unison. Gave me pause to respect the knowledge and the experience these guys had and I never lost that for older experienced workers. When I retired from municipal work in 2009, I had a guy who was 84 mowing fairways on the golf course.
Those old boys just kept going and going. And they made my life a hell of a lot easier.
Iowa Dave
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