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Old 01-07-2021, 09:14 AM   #21
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I don't even think about it. Route 550 is a little higher than Silverton's 9.3K.
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Old 01-08-2021, 01:38 AM   #22
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Hi, I'm towing my 19 with a 2018 Ridgeline (awd) and it is fantastic. I used to have a Tacoma which was, let's say very unsatisfactory. I think the Honda V6 and the automatic are one of the best combinations in the market- always in the right gear for both good fuel mileage and available passing power when needed. Mounting passes no problem, straight forward, up and down and always in the right gear (including when with cruise control).
You have nothing to worry and will find towing with that combo very relaxing and worryfree.
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Old 01-08-2021, 06:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Gr8Escape View Post
Hi, I'm towing my 19 with a 2018 Ridgeline (awd) and it is fantastic. I used to have a Tacoma which was, let's say very unsatisfactory. I think the Honda V6 and the automatic are one of the best combinations in the market- always in the right gear for both good fuel mileage and available passing power when needed. Mounting passes no problem, straight forward, up and down and always in the right gear (including when with cruise control).
You have nothing to worry and will find towing with that combo very relaxing and worryfree.
I'm presently towing a Casita 17' with similar but slightly lower weight with a 2008 Toyota Highlander 260hp V6 and find it tows well but I don't find it entirely relaxing. I am considering Ridgeline but really want the next vehicle to be "more relaxing" towing. Please understand I am not disputing the relaxing claim at all from GR8 and I have a lot of experience towing, owning a Lund boat and a utility trailer which tow relaxing for me.

Is it possible the Ridgeline (vs my 08 Highlander) tow these size trailers with more ease?
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Old 01-08-2021, 08:34 AM   #24
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I'm presently towing a Casita 17' with similar but slightly lower weight with a 2008 Toyota Highlander 260hp V6 and find it tows well but I don't find it entirely relaxing. I am considering Ridgeline but really want the next vehicle to be "more relaxing" towing.
When people describe a tow situation as stressful, I find it's usually from one of two areas:

1) - The rig is getting pushed around or is experiencing sway. A good sway control could resolve this. Also be sure your tongue weight is adequate.
2) The powertrain needs to downshift a lot on grades and rev the engine high to make power.

Item 2 is just plain physics. Power is what gets you up a grade, and so an engine will need to be revved to where the power is when you want to go up a hill. Most naturally aspirated SI engines achieve peak power at relatively high rpm, and the need to run up there is exacerbated at high altitude because the engine makes less power in general.

You can compare engine power curves to get a sense of how they will drive when towing. Look at what rpm it takes to make 150 - 200 hp. That's where you will be operating on a moderate grade.

As an example, most mid-size V6 engines as you find in the Honda Ridgeline or Toyota Tacoma won't develop 150hp until they reach 3500 rpm. If you don't like an engine that revs while towing, you will not like just about anything with a 3-4 liter NA engine.

There are two ways to get an engine that makes enough power at lower rpm. One is something in the same capacity range, but with a turbocharger. The Ford 2.3 ecoboost reaches 150hp by about 2800 rpm. The GM 2.8L diesel reaches 150 hp by 2100 rpm (but then tops out at only 181 hp, so it's "comfortable" but slow on really steep grades).

The second way is to just buy a much bigger NA engine. Most big V8's will tow comfortably because they are basically way more capable overall than something as small as an E-19 needs. So the engine makes adequate power at low rpm.

There are other "overkill" engines that would be exceptionally comfortable with a small Escape.....The bigger 2.7 and 3.5 Ecoboost engines, the various 3.0 liter diesel engines.

Again.....look at the power available from 2000 to 3000 rpm between these engines and you can get a quick sense which ones will stay there up the hill, and which will be at 4500 rpm (Ridgeline) or 5500 rpm (Tacoma).
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Old 01-08-2021, 08:57 AM   #25
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comfortable towing

Amen, I'm on my third Hemi V-8 towing a 19, 21, 17 and soon a 5.0. Of course I spent 25 years going quite fast and I have trouble slowing down.
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Old 01-08-2021, 08:58 AM   #26
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I'll give you a single comparison here to illustrate. Let's compare the Honda Ridgeline 280hp engine to the GM Duramax 181 hp engine.

To start, imagine you are cruising along in top gear on the highway while towing. The engine is turning about 2000 rpm. In this situation the GM engine can give you up to 140 hp without a downshift. The Honda engine can only make ~75 hp at the same rpm. What this means practically is that just about any little hill or headwind is going to push the Honda out of top gear, if it can even get there at all. The GM engine will shift much less often and stay at lower rpm more of the time.

Now imagine you are pulling a long, but modest grade on the highway. Your rig needs 150 hp to maintain speed. The GM will can deliver 150 hp anywhere from 2100 rpm up. So it will probably go up the hill at 2100 to 2400 rpm. The Honda needs at least 3500 rpm, so it will climb the hill at 3500 to 4000 rpm.

Finally, it's not all roses for the GM diesel. Now picture a really steep grade (like 6% +) at highway speed. You need 240 hp to climb it at your desired set speed. The Honda will shift to about 5000 rpm (screaming) and go up the hill. The GM can't give you 240 hp. So it will shift to 3400 rpm and you will slow down. You flat out cannot maintain speed so you might have to climb the hill at 50 mph instead of 60 mph, or whatever. Comfortable, but slow.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...ifferences.svg

https://www.dieselhub.com/duramax/2.8l-duramax-lwn.html
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:25 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JeffreyG View Post
I'll give you a single comparison here to illustrate. Let's compare the Honda Ridgeline 280hp engine to the GM Duramax 181 hp engine.

To start, imagine you are cruising along in top gear on the highway while towing. The engine is turning about 2000 rpm. In this situation the GM engine can give you up to 140 hp without a downshift. The Honda engine can only make ~75 hp at the same rpm. What this means practically is that just about any little hill or headwind is going to push the Honda out of top gear, if it can even get there at all. The GM engine will shift much less often and stay at lower rpm more of the time.

Now imagine you are pulling a long, but modest grade on the highway. Your rig needs 150 hp to maintain speed. The GM will can deliver 150 hp anywhere from 2100 rpm up. So it will probably go up the hill at 2100 to 2400 rpm. The Honda needs at least 3500 rpm, so it will climb the hill at 3500 to 4000 rpm.

Finally, it's not all roses for the GM diesel. Now picture a really steep grade (like 6% +) at highway speed. You need 240 hp to climb it at your desired set speed. The Honda will shift to about 5000 rpm (screaming) and go up the hill. The GM can't give you 240 hp. So it will shift to 3400 rpm and you will slow down. You flat out cannot maintain speed so you might have to climb the hill at 50 mph instead of 60 mph, or whatever. Comfortable, but slow.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...ifferences.svg

https://www.dieselhub.com/duramax/2.8l-duramax-lwn.html

I think there is a flaw in your explanation: the torque part of the equation. Owning a GMC Canyon diesel you will not slown down but wont be able to accelerate as fast.
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:34 AM   #28
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I think there is a flaw in your explanation: the torque part of the equation. Owning a GMC Canyon diesel you will not slown down but wont be able to accelerate as fast.
Power is the rate at which work is being done. When we are accelerating a mass, or lifting a heavy mass up a hill, the rate at which we can do it is 1:1 with the power available to do the work. To drive a load up a hill at 60 mph requires a lot more power than it does at 50 mph, because you are moving the load against the gravity force at a higher rate, doing work at a higher rate. This is why trucks are in the right lane going 30mph with the flashers on. All that mass being lifted up the hill.

Power = torque x rpm. When people say an engine "has a lot of torque" they are speaking the truth, but what they really are describing is an engine that makes a lot of power at low rpm (which by the equation, we can see means it needs a bigger torque number).

The GM diesel accelerates more slowly because it ultimately is a relatively low power engine, 181 hp max. It is comfortable to drive though because it delivers a large fraction of that peak power across the entire rpm range, especially down into low rpm. As I noted, the GM diesel delivers nearly twice the power of the Honda engine at 2000 rpm.

My entire point is that the published peak power rating of an engine only tells you one thing. To really understand how and engine will drive you need to study the power available across the rpm range.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:01 AM   #29
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[B][I]

The GM diesel accelerates more slowly because it ultimately is a relatively low power engine, 181 hp max. It is comfortable to drive though because it delivers a large fraction of that peak power across the entire rpm range, especially down into low rpm. As I noted, the GM diesel delivers nearly twice the power of the Honda engine at 2000 rpm.

My entire point is that the published peak power rating of an engine only tells you one thing. To really understand how and engine will drive you need to study the power available across the rpm range.
Hi
I agree that what and entire power curve will tell more than just odd single number.

Have a nice day
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:58 AM   #30
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I always advise people to stay under 50% capacity when picking a vehicle for towing a RV long distance.
At one time this may have been true, but, now with the exception of pickup trucks tow ratings are very conservative to start with. IMO if you stay within the manufacturer specified tow rating you should be fine.
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Old 01-08-2021, 01:54 PM   #31
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Power is the rate at which work is being done. When we are accelerating a mass, or lifting a heavy mass up a hill, the rate at which we can do it is 1:1 with the power available to do the work. To drive a load up a hill at 60 mph requires a lot more power than it does at 50 mph, because you are moving the load against the gravity force at a higher rate, doing work at a higher rate. This is why trucks are in the right lane going 30mph with the flashers on. All that mass being lifted up the hill.

Power = torque x rpm. When people say an engine "has a lot of torque" they are speaking the truth, but what they really are describing is an engine that makes a lot of power at low rpm (which by the equation, we can see means it needs a bigger torque number).

The GM diesel accelerates more slowly because it ultimately is a relatively low power engine, 181 hp max. It is comfortable to drive though because it delivers a large fraction of that peak power across the entire rpm range, especially down into low rpm. As I noted, the GM diesel delivers nearly twice the power of the Honda engine at 2000 rpm.

My entire point is that the published peak power rating of an engine only tells you one thing. To really understand how and engine will drive you need to study the power available across the rpm range.
All very interesting. I tow a 19 with a Colorado Duramax, and I go up and down a lot of grades that are 6% or higher. What you're saying here is very true. Going up a 7% grade towing my 19, the Colorado can do it at 57 mph without being floored, but I'm not sure flooring it would make it go any faster. Even if it could, 57 mph is plenty fast enough for me.

The biggest benefit to consider with these small diesels is their exhaust brake. Comfort for me means an unambiguous feeling of being in control towing down a steep grade, and these trucks give you that. I can pretty much cruise miles down a 6% grade at 55 mph without ever having to touch the brake pedal, except at the top to engage the exhaust brake. That's one reason I'm such a big fan.
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Old 01-08-2021, 02:23 PM   #32
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On a cross country trip in 2018, I got caught off guard. I had no idea about elevation and mountain passes. Climbing up to Eisenhower Tunnel with my 2017 4Runner at 11,000’ I had it to the floor in third gear doing maybe 45 mph trying to keep up with traffic . That was with my 2007 17B, my 2020 19 is way way heavier, no I haven’t weighed it, but it’s back there behind the Tundra.

I hope to get the new Tundra Twin Turbo Spring of 22.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:12 PM   #33
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I had a 2014 Ridgeline but found it a little lacking towing my 2015 19 Escape. I have upgraded to Ford F-150 2.7 SuperCab. I like it and it feels more secure towing the 19. I loved my Ridgeline for every day driving, but I am acclimating to F-150. Gas mileage in F-150 is better towing and about same as Honda on everyday driving.
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Old 01-17-2021, 05:17 PM   #34
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I had a 2014 Ridgeline but found it a little lacking towing my 2015 19 Escape. I have upgraded to Ford F-150 2.7 SuperCab. I like it and it feels more secure towing the 19. I loved my Ridgeline for every day driving, but I am acclimating to F-150. Gas mileage in F-150 is better towing and about same as Honda on everyday driving.
I was in for the ridgeline now u got me thinking f150 2.7 again. Am also interested in upcoming tundra turbo, but timing is not good.

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Old 01-17-2021, 08:11 PM   #35
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3) Tacoma has a low GVWR when equipped with 4x4 drivetrain. Be very careful if you want a Tacoma with a 4x4 and crew cab because the super low 1155 lb cargo capacity means most E-19 owners will wind up overloaded on GVWR once you look at tongue and hitch weight, unless you carry very little in the truck.
FWIW, at least on the gen2 Tacomas, the regular 2x4 Tacoma had much lower tow ratings than the 4x4 or "Prerunner" (which was the larger 4x4 wheels and suspension without the transfer case or front differential). so yeah, the prerunner had lower curb weight and the same GVWR so better tow capacity and payload, but the regular 2x4 had lousy everything due to smaller wheels,brakes, suspension.

but the weak payload and GCWR is what caused me to get a bigger truck when we upgraded from a 3500 lb Casita 16 to a 4500 lb Escape 21. ok, ok, so a 2002 f250 longbed diesel was overcompensating, but I'll never have to worrry about payload OR tow, heh. that rig can tow 10000 lbs AND still have full payload in the truck minus the tongue weight.
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:38 PM   #36
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ok, ok, so a 2002 f250 longbed diesel was overcompensating, but I'll never have to worrry about payload OR tow, heh. that rig can tow 10000 lbs AND still have full payload in the truck minus the tongue weight.

I think I'd need an air ride seat to consider a 3/4 ton or 1 ton as a regular vehicle.
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:59 PM   #37
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I think I'd need an air ride seat to consider a 3/4 ton or 1 ton as a regular vehicle.
the truck gets used for road trips and local hauling duties, its not our 'regular' vehicle, we just upgraded from a 1994 Mercedes E wagon to a 2016 E wagon for daily driver duties, shopping runs, etc.

loaded down, the F250 rides just fine, its an older one with 16" wheels and /75 series tires, not this silly 20" /50 stuff they push nowdays.
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Old 01-18-2021, 12:12 AM   #38
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loaded down, the F250 rides just fine, its an older one with 16" wheels and /75 series tires, not this silly 20" /50 stuff they push nowdays.
Ford doesn't put 50-series tires on SuperDuty truck. The 20" (and lowest profile) size for an F-250 is 275/65R20; for an F-150 the 20" size is 275/60R20.

16" wheels are no longer available on full-size trucks - they have 17", 18", 20", and 22" wheels. Yes, 22" is silly and are not even factory available on most models.

The pickup we owned was an old Chevy C-10 and came with 225/75R15 tires... with sidewalls nearly identical in height to a 275/60R20. The current aspect ratios are not unreasonable because the tires are so wide and cushioning is dependent on sidewall height which is the product of width and aspect ratio; the large wheel sizes work because the overall diameter is so large (which also helps over bumps).
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Old 01-18-2021, 01:02 AM   #39
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hmm, lets see, my '02 F250 has LT265/75R16's, which are 31.6" outer diameter, and 8.5" tread width....
and whoa, 275/65R20's are 34" OD, with a 9.2" tread width....

so they've gone to a MUCH larger wheel size on the newer trucks.

(I'm using dimensions for BF Goodrich All/Terrain KO2's as they are my favorite truck tire... numbers should be very close for any similar tire).
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Old 01-18-2021, 02:11 AM   #40
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hmm, lets see, my '02 F250 has LT265/75R16's, which are 31.6" outer diameter, and 8.5" tread width....
and whoa, 275/65R20's are 34" OD, with a 9.2" tread width....

so they've gone to a MUCH larger wheel size on the newer trucks.

(I'm using dimensions for BF Goodrich All/Terrain KO2's as they are my favorite truck tire... numbers should be very close for any similar tire).
Yes, the new ones have 4" more wheel and 2.4" more overall diameter, so each sidewall is only 0.8" shorter. With the lower inflation pressure allowed by the greater width, the ride changes little.

A 275/55R20 would match the diameter of the 275/75R16 so each sidewall would be 2" shorter and ride would be another matter. An actual 50-series 20" tire of similar width would even worse. The 65-series tires actually used by Ford are much more like the 16" setup than like a 50-series tire.
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