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Old 08-09-2018, 04:29 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Escape is using the new type wiring where the outlet and wire is fused together, no wire nuts, no screws on the side, no push in connectors on the rear.
I didn't even know those existed. Personally, I do not care for that type of thru-the-insulation connection even for 12 volts (Scotchlok). For a mobile installation I don't care for any that I can't loop the wire around a screw.

It is certainly looking like I will be adding a sub-panel between the power center and the xfer switch to get my additional circuits - they aren't inverter capable loads anyway.
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:45 PM   #22
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Correct. A 30 amp breaker in the converter feeds the non inverter side of the panel, and the output of the inverter the other. Two 15 amp breakers in the sub panel, one for the microwave
& the other for all the trailer receptacles.
In my trailer, one circuit does the microwave, loft and dinette plug, the other does the outlet at the door, the outside one, and the one at the galley.
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It is certainly looking like I will be adding a sub-panel between the power center and the xfer switch to get my additional circuits - they aren't inverter capable loads anyway.
I really don't understand your reasoning for this. I have added the heater circuit and still have more room should I want another. That's just it too, you really don't need any more circuits from what you have said. Maybe describe a realistic circumstance where you need more circuits than what is already available, one that would not exceed the 30A capability of the service.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Escape's optional "all outlets" inverter installation includes a sub-panel. To provide more separation in circuits which can be powered from the inverter, you would only need to use more breakers in that panel, or a different panel. The way this sub-panel is installed, it would be easy to remove it and replace it with a larger panel if required.
I wondered exactly what I was seeing when I toured Mark Giadone's 5.0. I recognized the rail mounted breaker under the dinette but didn't ask about it.

It looks like ETI is already doing exactly what I have now figured I would be doing. I just need to expand it a bit.

I don't need more circuits, per se, but I want to reduce the chance of knocking out a circuit breaker. Overall power management will still be required. I don't want to kill, for example, the general circuit that my satellite receiver is on while recording a movie just because I was using the Breville oven & Instant Pot on the circuit that also had the little chest freezer & ice maker on it. Putting the Breville on it's own circuit, like the microwave, would prevent that. Of course, I might blow the main if the water heater happens to come on. My Aframe doesn't have electric water heater so that will be a new thing for me.

It looks like adding a breaker to the circuit headed to the xfer switch would get me the Breville circuit while tapping into the AC circuit with a selector switch would get me the heater circuit without needing a new breaker.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:44 PM   #24
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If you are convinced that you need to add multiple circuits to the trailer then it would make sense to change out the converter , breaker panel and service cord to 50 amps or add a load shedding sensor
Adding 4 or 5 circuits to a 30 amp service really doesn’t solve the problem
I added a GFCI kitchen receptacle on a separate 20 amp circuit so I could run a coffee pot and toaster at the same time but I still can’t run the A/C or microwave simultaneously
There is a reason that the NEC Art # 551 limits the number of branch circuits on a 30 amp service
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:49 PM   #25
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[I]general circuit that my satellite receiver is on while recording a movie just because I was using the Breville oven & Instant Pot on the circuit that also had the little chest freezer & ice maker on it. Putting the Breville on it's own circuit, like the microwave Wow, that must be 30 amps right there without considering your converter and water heater, plus air-conditioning. You realize you have a almost full sized refrigerator with separate freezer. You maybe able to leave some of those power hungry items at home and start using propane for some cooking.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:26 PM   #26
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I wondered exactly what I was seeing when I toured Mark Giadone's 5.0. I recognized the rail mounted breaker under the dinette but didn't ask about it.
A solo rail-mounted breaker wouldn't have been the inverter's extra breaker panel; some owners have added rail mounted devices as part of their solar installations.

In this photo from Steve (taken from his post in another thread) the extra breaker panel is just visible - it's the grey box attached just under the top of one of driver's side dinette benches top left of the opening in the photo:
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:36 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
A solo rail-mounted breaker wouldn't have been the inverter's extra breaker panel; some owners have added rail mounted devices as part of their solar installations.

In this photo from Steve (taken from his post in another thread) the extra breaker panel is just visible - it's the grey box attached just under the top of one of driver's side dinette benches top left of the opening in the photo:
Thank you, that helps clarify for me what I would need to do.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:40 PM   #28
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I don't want to kill, for example, the general circuit that my satellite receiver is on while recording a movie just because I was using the Breville oven & Instant Pot on the circuit that also had the little chest freezer & ice maker on it.
For another way to handle that specific situation, you could try powering your satellite receiver from the battery, so that it would continue to have power no matter what happens on the 120 V AC side. Also handy if you want to use it when not on shore power. This might require a DC-to-DC converter or a small inverter, depending on the receiver's power input requirement.

Like many small TV displays, my satellite receiver uses a 12 V DC input, provided by a converter that plugs into the wall. I haven't tried it directly on battery power, in part because I don't know about its voltage tolerance.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:53 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
[I]general circuit that my satellite receiver is on while recording a movie just because I was using the Breville oven & Instant Pot on the circuit that also had the little chest freezer & ice maker on it. Putting the Breville on it's own circuit, like the microwave

Wow, that must be 30 amps right there without considering your converter and water heater, plus air-conditioning.
The Aframe doesn't have electric water heater or AC and I don't think I've had the Instant Pot going at the same time as the other stuff I listed but I routinely do the others and I haven't blown the 30 amp main yet.

In the Aframe the microwave & Breville share a circuit so I can only safely run one at a time. I want to make that option possible, with proper management of other devices. It isn't unusual for me to turn off the electric heater while making dinner. The highest I've seen my EMS remote display show is around 27-28 amps. Charging a low battery would have had the main go.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:31 PM   #30
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For another way to handle that specific situation, you could try powering your satellite receiver from the battery, so that it would continue to have power no matter what happens on the 120 V AC side.
I run the sat receiver and sometimes the tv on a little inverter when boondocking and would continue to do so in the Escape. I never considered it for this possibility. It would have probably come to me if I had blown the main in this situation.

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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Like many small TV displays, my satellite receiver uses a 12 V DC input, provided by a converter that plugs into the wall.
My tv is 12 volt only, usually via a small plug in ac to dc converter, and runs direct from the battery fine. But the sat receiver itself is 120 only, thus the little inverter when boondocking (used for the cell amplifier, too).
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:43 PM   #31
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I admitted in another thread that I'm a 120v power hog and I'm trying to come up with ways to reduce the problems caused by that. I may be overthinking things but at least you guys & gals are giving me good info & ideas for me to consider. From this thread due to your input I've gone from considering a higher capacity converter to a sub-panel and a selector switch for ac/heater. (A new thought: I wonder if the right thermostat & relay could be the selector - should work.)

As far as a load shedding power management system goes, it would certainly help (I have it in my 40' 5th wheel) but I'll have to blow the main a time or two in the Escape before shelling out that $500US.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:57 PM   #32
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I admitted in another thread that I'm a 120v power hog and I'm trying to come up with ways to reduce the problems caused by that.
Oo oo oo, I have an idea. Dump some of the power hogging appliances and use propane instead. There are always alternatives to every situation.

I come at this the total opposite way, as I never had anything that needed 120V as the vast majority of my trailer camping was boondocking, and still is. When I got my 2009 Escape 19, I did start bringing along a cube heater, then added a wee electric kettle for when I had hookups. Not that I have a 1500W inverter we added a toaster, a hair dryer for the wife's big head of hair, and even brought along hair trimmers for me when on a long trip to shave my head. The latter two things see little use. The toaster though was something my wife first balked at, but now when we can have toast that is not dried out like stovetop toasters tend to do, she is loving the wee 2-slice toaster.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:23 PM   #33
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You could just drag the trailer to the COE campground at the Libby dam. Lots of power there.


McGillivray Campground on Lake Koocanusa, Libby, Montana area
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:14 PM   #34
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You could just drag the trailer to the COE campground at the Libby dam. Lots of power there.
Sounds good.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:12 AM   #35
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Oo oo oo, I have an idea. Dump some of the power hogging appliances and use propane instead. There are always alternatives to every situation.
I do a large portion of my cooking in the oven. My experience over 8+ years in a motorhome (5+ years full time) turned me off of rv propane ovens so that is not a viable alternative for me.

If I can't live my life in the luxury I would like to become accustomed to, at least let me have my appliances to make dinner easier & faster.
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:06 AM   #36
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One useful addition or modification would be to add an interior 120V switch for the water heater. There is a model of the Suburban water heater that has a relay, which combined with the correct interior panel, provides an interior switch for both 12V & 120V operation. I know at least one Escape owner added this - maybe Reace could provide that model & panel. If not, some of us have added a switch in series with the water heater breaker that does the same thing. I did this in my 17 so I didn't have to worry about the electric element coming on while running other appliances & connected to a 15 amp service.

Saves going outside in the rain (it is always raining when you need to go out) to use the switch built into the water heater. Repeated switching of the poor quality switch supplied will eventually cause it to fail, a nasty replacement job...
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:34 AM   #37
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One useful addition or modification would be to add an interior 120V switch for the water heater. There is a model of the Suburban water heater that has a relay, which combined with the correct interior panel, provides an interior switch for both 12V & 120V operation. I know at least one Escape owner added this - maybe Reace could provide that model & panel. If not, some of us have added a switch in series with the water heater breaker that does the same thing. I did this in my 17 so I didn't have to worry about the electric element coming on while running other appliances & connected to a 15 amp service.

Saves going outside in the rain (it is always raining when you need to go out) to use the switch built into the water heater. Repeated switching of the poor quality switch supplied will eventually cause it to fail, a nasty replacement job...
I think tdf-texas Tom was the first to do it. I did it, and Red Dog Fred did too. Here is a thread started by wetzk Ken where all you need is described.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...day-11959.html
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:59 AM   #38
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One useful addition or modification would be to add an interior 120V switch for the water heater.
A multi-switch panel and relays are on my list of potential things I'd likely be getting for mods. Some labels wouldn't match but I can envision potentially using all these switches controlling various 120 & 12 volt stuff. Feed 12 volts to the panel and use light multi-strand wire to control relays.
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:39 AM   #39
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I don't see the microwave in your list.
It wasn’t labeled. Just threw the breakers and found the microwave is on the same 15A circuit as the fridge and converter.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:07 AM   #40
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Understanding capacity a useful thing

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The ETI diagram for the 5.0TA shows 8 standard outlet locations but does not indicate how many circuits in the power center are used/available. I assume most people that add another outlet somewhere, by ETI or custom, just extend/branch off an existing circuit - possibly because they are all in use.

But I need at least one and maybe 2 additional individual separate circuits:

One in the kitchen so I can use my Breville countertop oven (up to ~13 amp draw) in addition to whatever else may be used at the same time, including the microwave, convection burner or whatever. As long as the AC or an electric heater isn't also on then 2 high draw kitchen appliances do work on 30 amps.

The other potential circuit would be specifically for an electric heater (wall mount or toekick) and an outlet under the nose for a compressor ice chest and ice maker. These two are in the (empty) generator compartment of my 40' 5th wheel (home) or currently stay in the truck bed under the tonneau cover when I camp in my Aframe.

My microwave is also high draw (up to ~13 amps) so it's circuit shouldn't be shared much, either, potentially adding another circuit.

I believe that the power center that ETI uses has 5 branch circuits. Are they all normally used or am I going to have to substitute my own for ETI to install or even swap after delivery? Note- the power center I put in my Aframe has 7 branch circuits.
It can be very useful to understand the circuit patterns. It can quickly turn problems into non problems. That being said, I have not accumulated all of the documentation yet.

The manufacturers documentation on the box and converter are very useful in understanding the units capabilities. I recommend “googling “ the model number found on the face, under the front cover. Go to the manufacturer’s site and download the appropriate files. They will confirm the maximum number of circuits etc.
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