I Scratched Our Baby

[WillyB]

Side Effect is just barely 6 months old and I put a big 20"+ long scratch, better term is a gorge/canyon, in her a few weeks ago. Don't ask. We'll just call it a Rookie Mistake.

Because I had a spider crack in it from new, Escape had already sent me about a quart of gelcoat. Hooray for the spider crack!

I've been looking at this for a while now and during its maiden waxing this weekend I couldn't take it any longer. So this morning I started prep sanding, mixing gelcoat with Catalyst, Wax & Colloidal Silica and proceeded to give it a good old college try.

After sanding and buffing and sanding and buffing etc....etc....etc.... what do you think of my repair?

[lonewolfjb]

Originally Posted by WillyB

Side Effect is just barely 6 months old and I put a big 20"+ long scratch, better term is a gorge/canyon, in her a few weeks ago. Don't ask. We'll just call it a Rookie Mistake.

Because I had a spider crack in it from new, Escape had already sent me about a quart of gelcoat. Hooray for the spider crack!

I've been looking at this for a while now and during its maiden waxing this weekend I couldn't take it any longer. So this morning I started prep sanding, mixing gelcoat with Catalyst, Wax & Colloidal Silica and proceeded to give it a good old college try.

After sanding and buffing and sanding and buffing etc....etc....etc.... what do you think of my repair?

Looks great can't even tell where you patched without a before pic. But guessing its where the crease is on refrigerator access
door.

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by lonewolfjb

Looks great can't even tell where you patched without a before pic.

You can get an idea by the scratch on the refrigerator access.

[HABBERDABBER]

Gel coat can be touchy stuff to work with. Another job, well done, maestro!
Like our vehicles, and bodies, come to think of it, we all acquire our dings, dents and shopworn look. I put a scratch and a ding in my 6 month old vehicle. And don't ask! Shucks!
And so it goes.

[splitting_lanes]

Looks great!

That’s one of the beauties of gelcoat, it really repairs nicely if you have patience. Once I had to repair a seadoo that earned me the nickname Capt’n Crunch. Seadoo turned out pretty nice, but the name stuck.

[MVA]

Fantastic job! Can you share the products you used (gelcoat, catalyst, etc.)? We will undoubtedly need to do the same in the future.

thanks

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by WillyB

After sanding and buffing and sanding and buffing etc....etc....etc.... what do you think of my repair?

Originally Posted by MVA

Fantastic job! Can you share the products you used (gelcoat, catalyst, etc.)? We will undoubtedly need to do the same in the future.

thanks

Nice job. But at the risk of sounding like a broken record that's a repair that could have been done in either one or two steps. No need for repeated buffing and sanding.

The way to easily fix those kind of gouges is by using something we used to call cello finishing. Basically it involves taping a piece of stiff poly or acetate, old overhead projector acetate sheets are perfect so that it's hinged at the bottom edge of the repair.

A judicious amount of gelcoat is dabbed into the gouge. It's a case of practice makes perfect. The acetate sheet is flipped up and simple hand movement upwards spreads the gelcoat and removes any air.

Get the right amount of gelcoat in and it's one and done. Worst case is either minor wet sanding is required to make it flush or it has to be repeated because not enough gelcoat was used. I've done many, many repairs where it was one and done.

I had an interesting f.g. experience yesterday. Was out in a business that makes f.g. products with a friend who was ordering a raised canopy. $15,000 for an empty shell! They were laying up something called a com tower. It's several tapered sections that stack on top of each other and houses communications equipment on remote mountain tops. It looks like a stubby IBM. I was reminiscing with the long time owner about how I spent endless hours wet sanding the original mold 50 years ago. It was what paid my way in University. How time flies.

Ron

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Nice job. But at the risk of sounding like a broken record that's a repair that could have been done in either one or two steps. No need for repeated buffing and sanding.

The way to easily fix those kind of gouges is by using something we used to call cello finishing. Basically it involves taping a piece of stiff poly or acetate, old overhead projector acetate sheets are perfect so that it's hinged at the bottom edge of the repair.

A judicious amount of gelcoat is dabbed into the gouge. It's a case of practice makes perfect. The acetate sheet is flipped up and simple hand movement upwards spreads the gelcoat and removes any air.

Get the right amount of gelcoat in and it's one and done. Worst case is either minor wet sanding is required to make it flush or it has to be repeated because not enough gelcoat was used. I've done many, many repairs where it was one and done.

I had an interesting f.g. experience yesterday. Was out in a business that makes f.g. products with a friend who was ordering a raised canopy. $15,000 for an empty shell! They were laying up something called a com tower. It's several tapered sections that stack on top of each other and houses communications equipment on remote mountain tops. It looks like a stubby IBM. I was reminiscing with the long time owner about how I spent endless hours wet sanding the original mold 50 years ago. It was what paid my way in University. How time flies.

Ron

If you've ever seen by drywall work you would understand the sanding & buffing.

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by MVA

Fantastic job! Can you share the products you used (gelcoat, catalyst, etc.)? We will undoubtedly need to do the same in the future.

thanks

Gelcoat was from Escape Trailer (It is an unwaxed Gelcoat), Catalyst is MEKP (Purchased from WestMarine), Sanding Wax Additive (Fiberglass Supply Depot) and I used Colloidal Silica (West Systems 406) to help thicken the mixture to apply on a vertical surface.

You also need Acetone to wipe the surface clean after you sand the scratch a little smoother before adding the Gelcoat mixture.

Having never done this before I watched several youtube videos. But this one helped me wrap my head around it all for vertical surfaces.
There are several ways to do this but this was the way I went. It was much easier than I expected.

[MVA]

Thanks for the process.

[escape artist]

Hi: WillyB... I've herd of drawing a line in the sand before but not in the trailer!!! Looks like you got it all smoothed over. AIAS it'll buff out. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by WillyB

(It is an unwaxed Gelcoat), Catalyst is MEKP (Purchased from WestMarine), Sanding Wax Additive (Fiberglass Supply Depot) and I used Colloidal Silica (West Systems 406) to help thicken the mixture to apply on a vertical surface.

.

Unwaxed gelcoat drys sticky unless covered while curing. If you're going to do a repair and have to sand it etc. it's OK to use. But in other situations it's better to use waxed. See below for my comment on vertical surfaces.

Originally Posted by WillyB

If you've ever seen by drywall work you would understand the sanding & buffing.

That's not a bad analogy. Both are cases where practice makes perfect. On my first house I think that I sanded off more excess filler than stayed on.

I watched the youtube demo. He had two thumbs up right up to and including sanding a transition. Then he lost me completely.

What an insane amount of unnecessary work!

1. Poor practice to use a the container cap to put a few drops on catalyst on the mix. Use an eye dropper. There are several negatives to not adding the right amount of catalyst.

2. Adding filler and making it a 2 step process is completely unnecessary. The acetate sheet holds the gelcoat in place, no filler required.

3. Adding tape "forms" around the repair guarantees more work. It means that your repair will not be flush with the existing surface.

This is a brief demo of cello finishing. It can be used on vertical surfaces without any problem.

Have the acetate or heavy poly taped across the bottom. The tape acts as a hinge.

1. shows too much "gelcoat" added. Afterwards if you ran your finger nail up to it it'd catch on the edge.

2. obviously too little, turning it into a 2 step process

3. the correct amount will spread out into the sanded transition zone and will be very thin at the edges. If the gelcoat isn't a perfect match the thinness in this area will cause it to blend in.

You can barely catch a finger nail on the edge and it'll only require the most minimum of wet sanding.

We did a similar repair on Myron's trailer a few years ago but didn't document it.

Here's the deal. If anyone has similar damage and they're coming to the Rally I'll do the repair and we'll make a video of it so others will see how easy it can be.

Ron

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Unwaxed gelcoat drys sticky unless covered while curing. If you're going to do a repair and have to sand it etc. it's OK to use. But in other situations it's better to use waxed. See below for my comment on vertical surfaces.



That's not a bad analogy. Both are cases where practice makes perfect. On my first house I think that I sanded off more excess filler than stayed on.

I watched the youtube demo. He had two thumbs up right up to and including sanding a transition. Then he lost me completely.

What an insane amount of unnecessary work!

1. Poor practice to use a the container cap to put a few drops on catalyst on the mix. Use an eye dropper. There are several negatives to not adding the right amount of catalyst.

2. Adding filler and making it a 2 step process is completely unnecessary. The acetate sheet holds the gelcoat in place, no filler required.

3. Adding tape "forms" around the repair guarantees more work. It means that your repair will not be flush with the existing surface.

This is a brief demo of cello finishing. It can be used on vertical surfaces without any problem.

Have the acetate or heavy poly taped across the bottom. The tape acts as a hinge.

1. shows too much "gelcoat" added. Afterwards if you ran your finger nail up to it it'd catch on the edge.

2. obviously too little, turning it into a 2 step process

3. the correct amount will spread out into the sanded transition zone and will be very thin at the edges. If the gelcoat isn't a perfect match the thinness in this area will cause it to blend in.

You can barely catch a finger nail on the edge and it'll only require the most minimum of wet sanding.

We did a similar repair on Myron's trailer a few years ago but didn't document it.

Here's the deal. If anyone has similar damage and they're coming to the Rally I'll do the repair and we'll make a video of it so others will see how easy it can be.

Ron

Your 1,2,3 pictures is why I used Colloidal Silica process. This way I could manipulate it like body filler to ensure coverage and then sand back and polish.

It looks pretty good for a first timer. Especially given my drywall skills. I can do a zillion practice attempts with all of the gelcoat Escape sent me but I'm calling it good for now. Well,,,,,that's until

Oh, the gelcoat Escape sent was unwaxed that's why I had to add sanding wax.

[Ron in BC]

With all due respect Willy, I think that you missed the point of my post.

There isn't any 1, 2, 3. It's one and done. No fillers that could add unwanted porosity to the gelcoat, no repeated steps and only a tiny amount or no sanding required. At least 50% of the repairs that I've done were one and done.

Unwaxed gelcoat, when covered and sealed by the acetate or poly turns out shiny and not sticky. So, put on the right amount of gel coat and you're done.

Yes, you did a very nice job but you did it the hard way.

Ron

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

With all due respect Willy, I think that you missed the point of my post.

There isn't any 1, 2, 3. It's one and done. No fillers that could add unwanted porosity to the gelcoat, no repeated steps and only a tiny amount or no sanding required. At least 50% of the repairs that I've done were one and done.

Unwaxed gelcoat, when covered and sealed by the acetate or poly turns out shiny and not sticky. So, put on the right amount of gel coat and you're done.

Yes, you did a very nice job but you did it the hard way.

Ron

Ron

The good thing about skinning a cat is that there lots of ways to do it.

On a vertical surface, after all of my research, I found this way to be the best for me as a novice. I saw your non-colloidal silica method with the acetate overlay but I felt with my scratch being well over 20" on a rounded surface there were too many variables to get an even result across the length of this scratch.

I'm not trying debating the point. I was trying to be funny in my response as well as give others an understanding of what I've done.

My method was simple and had good results. Both methods need sanding and polishing (2 stage) to make the surfaces blend smoothly.

On my next scratch I'll try your method and compare the effort and results.

Keep Escaping in your Escape!

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by WillyB

I saw your non-colloidal silica method with the acetate overlay but I felt with my scratch being well over 20" on a rounded surface there were too many variables to get an even result across the length of this scratch.

On my next scratch I'll try your method and compare the effort and results.

Keep Escaping in your Escape!

Whatever method makes you most comfortable is probably the one that stands the best chance of success.

Let's hope that there isn't another one for you to try.

Ron

[Ivan Desjardins]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Unwaxed gelcoat drys sticky unless covered while curing. If you're going to do a repair and have to sand it etc. it's OK to use. But in other situations it's better to use waxed. See below for my comment on vertical surfaces.



That's not a bad analogy. Both are cases where practice makes perfect. On my first house I think that I sanded off more excess filler than stayed on.

I watched the youtube demo. He had two thumbs up right up to and including sanding a transition. Then he lost me completely.

What an insane amount of unnecessary work!

1. Poor practice to use a the container cap to put a few drops on catalyst on the mix. Use an eye dropper. There are several negatives to not adding the right amount of catalyst.

2. Adding filler and making it a 2 step process is completely unnecessary. The acetate sheet holds the gelcoat in place, no filler required.

3. Adding tape "forms" around the repair guarantees more work. It means that your repair will not be flush with the existing surface.

This is a brief demo of cello finishing. It can be used on vertical surfaces without any problem.

Have the acetate or heavy poly taped across the bottom. The tape acts as a hinge.

1. shows too much "gelcoat" added. Afterwards if you ran your finger nail up to it it'd catch on the edge.

2. obviously too little, turning it into a 2 step process

3. the correct amount will spread out into the sanded transition zone and will be very thin at the edges. If the gelcoat isn't a perfect match the thinness in this area will cause it to blend in.

You can barely catch a finger nail on the edge and it'll only require the most minimum of wet sanding.

We did a similar repair on Myron's trailer a few years ago but didn't document it.

Here's the deal. If anyone has similar damage and they're coming to the Rally I'll do the repair and we'll make a video of it so others will see how easy it can be.

Ron

Hello Ron:
I have some spider cracks, 3 or 4, that have appeared on my trailer since I purchased it 2 years ago. So far ETI has repaired them under the warranty, but as of next year, these repairs won't be covered. I would like to know if you think these small cracks should be repaired at all or do I risk doing more harm to the trailer if I try doing these repairs myself.
I will be at the next Rally in Oliver and would really be grateful if you did put on a small demonstration as to how to do these repairs. Regardless of whether you think spider cracks should be repaired or not, I would really appreciate seeing how gel coat repair are done in the event that I do need to do one of these touch ups in the future.

Thanks for all your advice and tips that you have posted over the years, you have a wealth of information to share and I have truly benefited from all of your posts.
Ivan Desjardins

[Ron in BC]

I hate to respond with "it depends" but I'd have to see a photo of the cracks. Generally it's best to repair and seal them up.

Great, I'm happy to do a demo of cello finishing and I'll have ETI put it on the list of activities for the rally.

I'll PM you for some other details as I've hijacked Willies thread enough.

Ron

[Ivan Desjardins]

Thanks Ron, looking forward to the demo.

[Snappy]

Great topic all. I just had to have my upper rear drivers side corner repaired after some damage at the storage facility - done by a repair center and insurance....

Ron - does the cello method only work easily on flat surface or can you use the same approach on the curved corners with the acetate?

I'll be at the rally so will be interested in seeing your demo! Thanks