Infrared Images

[JimJ]

Your memory is good, Tim. Our 15B does have the spray insulation. If you want to try the fancy camera on our Escape, that would be fine. I'll send an email.

[Jim Bennett]

Interesting images, Tim. It does confirm many of my thoughts as to where heat is lost. Reace has always maintained that the aluminum frames on the windows are a weak spot, but there is nothing else available at a reasonable cost.

Another thing to remember when looking at stuff like this, there really is no such thing as cold, and cold being drawn in. There is only heat, or the lack of it, and what needs to be considered is how the heat is conducted through a material. I know this is a bit picky, but it really does help with the thought process when dealing with heat transfer.

BTW, I have spent a lot of time doing thermography work, mostly in electrical substations looking for hot spots that could possibly cause problems in the future.

Originally Posted by Buddy

Can you use low expansion foam and do the entire door without using the beads? You'd need a longer piece of plastic tubing to get it down around through out the door but the foam should fill in all of the little spaces. It would be critical not to overfill and make sure that it is low expansion foam....

I have had this thought too, but have dealt with this foam lots, and I really don't think it is feasible in something so narrow and wide. You would need to have bleed holes for the air inside the door cavity to escape from. If anyone works out a good way to facilitate this process, I would be keen to give it a try too.

[techfan]

Some additional outside pictures after the heat had been on in the trailer for a while.

One weak spot I found is above the door. There doesn't seem to be anything up there (including Reflectix) Looks easy enough to remove the caps and unscrew the fascia and put some insulation in there. It also appears that the door seal itself is letting a lot of heat out. Not sure anything can be done about the seal, though. Concerning the windows, I'm wondering if a "wrap" of closed cell foam (e.g. camping sleeping pad) cut in a 1.5 inch strip and placed around the frame of the window on the inside would have any effect? That would slow the energy transfer (thank you Jim B) on the frame. It would be easy enough to make a sleeve and apply to the protrusion on the inside. Oh, the door window has a piece of Refectix in it so it is really helping hold the heat in.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I have had this thought too, but have dealt with this foam lots, and I really don't think it is feasible in something so narrow and wide. You would need to have bleed holes for the air inside the door cavity to escape from. If anyone works out a good way to facilitate this process, I would be keen to give it a try too.

Jim you probably have experience those bigger contractor cans and guns of the expanding foam - mine experience is only with the single use consumer ones. Like I said I experimented with a longer hose on the consumer cans and it didn't work, (not enough pressure it seemed) Have you ever tried to extend the nozzle on the metal gun units? It seems like if we could get it started deep enough inside and the lock removed for an air vent area that it might just work.

Tim - thanks for all these great photos. Our electric company paid for most of an energy audit in our house and it sure was interesting walking around with the guy after he pressurized the house and used that camera. I did all his suggestions and it turned our 35 year old home into one that he said now meets the Energy Star infiltration standards of new home construction.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by thoer

Jim you probably have experience those bigger contractor cans and guns of the expanding foam - mine experience is only with the single use consumer ones. Like I said I experimented with a longer hose on the consumer cans and it didn't work, (not enough pressure it seemed) Have you ever tried to extend the nozzle on the metal gun units? It seems like if we could get it started deep enough inside and the lock removed for an air vent area that it might just work.

We do use short 6" extensions to get into tight places, like around some windows that have narrow gaps. I would imagine you would have to have a big bigger diameter hose. The cannisters we mostly use are similar to the large ones that have the built in dispenser, but screw our own guns on them, ones that allow us to shut off the flow, and stop the foam from hardening.

Still, even if a longer tube would work, you would have no way of controlling where you were pushing it to, and once the cavity starts to fill, you could still end up with a bunch of voids. Plus, even the low expansive foams do still expand, and could likely deform the door skins.

Not to sound discouraging, as with care and planning, it still might be able to work. The method you propose does have some merit. There are just a few cautionary measure to take.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by techfan

Concerning the windows, I'm wondering if a "wrap" of closed cell foam (e.g. camping sleeping pad) cut in a 1.5 inch strip and placed around the frame of the window on the inside would have any effect? That would slow the energy transfer (thank you Jim B) on the frame. It would be easy enough to make a sleeve and apply to the protrusion on the inside.

That sounds promising to me.

[Greggo]

I just stumbled on this thread. This absolutely confirms my suspicions that our Escape could be much better insulated. Even with the thermal windows and insulation package, it gets cold inside relative to the outside temp. Double and sometimes triple blankets at night and heater on most mornings compared with single blankets in fall and winter (ok, SoCal winter!) in our Casita. I can only imagine what owners of un-insulated trailers must experience.

Greg

[gbaglo]

I've not camped below freezing, but I've had no problem without insulation. Just turn the thermostat up.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

We do use short 6" extensions to get into tight places, like around some windows that have narrow gaps. I would imagine you would have to have a big bigger diameter hose. The cannisters we mostly use are similar to the large ones that have the built in dispenser, but screw our own guns on them, ones that allow us to shut off the flow, and stop the foam from hardening.

Still, even if a longer tube would work, you would have no way of controlling where you were pushing it to, and once the cavity starts to fill, you could still end up with a bunch of voids. Plus, even the low expansive foams do still expand, and could likely deform the door skins.

Not to sound discouraging, as with care and planning, it still might be able to work. The method you propose does have some merit. There are just a few cautionary measure to take.

I was hoping you were going to use your expertise and volunteer to try it first!

[gbaglo]

It seems that practice would make perfect.

[Greggo]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I've not camped below freezing, but I've had no problem without insulation. Just turn the thermostat up.

to each his own....

[PGDriver]

Just to toss out another idea...
How about taking off the door turning it upside down, drilling a 1/2" or so hole at the bottom (where no one will see it easily) and pushing in cellulose insulation then just put in a 1/2" grommet style plug thus allowing easy in access to the door to put more in if it settles do to vibration.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Greggo

I just stumbled on this thread. This absolutely confirms my suspicions that our Escape could be much better insulated. Even with the thermal windows and insulation package, it gets cold inside relative to the outside temp. Double and sometimes triple blankets at night and heater on most mornings compared with single blankets in fall and winter (ok, SoCal winter!) in our Casita. I can only imagine what owners of un-insulated trailers must experience.

Greg

Our Escape with insulation package is way warmer than our Scamp was.

[DeadEyeDan]

The images on the aluminum frame windows does not surprise me. Our 30 year old house in Sacramento was built with dual glazed aluminum framed windows.

When I had vinyl framed retrofits installed, it made a huge difference in the house.

I noticed the Olivers which were at Quartzsite this year appeared to have white vinyl windows, but maybe they were just white aluminum frames.

[DeadEyeDan]

Originally Posted by thoer

Our Escape with insulation package is way warmer than our Scamp was.

Ours is much better than our was Casita too.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by DeadEyeDan

I noticed the Olivers which were at Quartzsite this year appeared to have white vinyl windows, but maybe they were just white aluminum frames.

My guess is that they are white aluminum. Oliver likes aluminum - they have an aluminum frame and aluminum structures under the floor inside the body - so it seems likely they are aluminum.

[daveandsandyclink]

I haven't had my door latch out but I would think filling the door with loose insulation material may fowl the latching mechanism and lock you in or out.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by thoer

I was hoping you were going to use your expertise and volunteer to try it first!

Okay fine, I'll try it first. I will PM you my address so you can ship your door for me to try on.

[Donna D.]

I'm sure you've already thought of this, but instead of pouring something inside the door that will eventually settle and pack down, how about cutting into the door,

taking the window and lockset out and applying reflectix that way? I know a number of Burro owners have had reasonable results by jamming reflectix between the hulls using every small entry point they could find.

You could then fiberglass/gel coat the repair. If you don't like the final result, make it obvious by adding a magazine rack, shoe rack or garbage pale. OR, coat the surface with a DIY solution like Grizzly Grip (it doesn't need to be "rough.")

[Brian B-P]

If you're willing to cut and re-fiberglass, I think Donna's suggestion makes sense. But if you're going to all that effort, why not properly insulate it with foam, rather than aluminized bubble wrap?