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Old 12-02-2020, 11:22 PM   #21
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Thanks for all the detail. I think I will probably choose 2 lithium batteries with the solar port and see how it goes. I can always add more battery and purchase a portable solar panel for added charging.
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Old 12-02-2020, 11:52 PM   #22
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As I mentioned earlier, I just went through the process of assessing our electrical needs as well and this thread helped me do the calculations. Before purchasing lithium batteries I did a lot of research.

Lithium ion battery technology and price are changing rapidly and many of the original producers have not kept up with these changes. Battleborn is coming out with a new version shortly but as of now, they are way behind. The gopower that escape uses is similar. There wasnt a lot of batteries in stock so my choice was limited and I ended up buying three 100 amp renogy lithium ion batteries at half the price of the mainstay companies. The renogy batteries have great reviews, appear to be solidly built and are updated yearly. I read a lot of bad stuff about customer service but my experience ordering from them was fantastic.

I will be installing the three lithium batteries inside the trailer under the dinette seat.......when i pick the trailer up next week. Yay.
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:46 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by JulietF View Post
As I mentioned earlier, I just went through the process of assessing our electrical needs as well and this thread helped me do the calculations. Before purchasing lithium batteries I did a lot of research.

Lithium ion battery technology and price are changing rapidly and many of the original producers have not kept up with these changes. Battleborn is coming out with a new version shortly but as of now, they are way behind. The gopower that escape uses is similar. There wasnt a lot of batteries in stock so my choice was limited and I ended up buying three 100 amp renogy lithium ion batteries at half the price of the mainstay companies. The renogy batteries have great reviews, appear to be solidly built and are updated yearly. I read a lot of bad stuff about customer service but my experience ordering from them was fantastic.

I will be installing the three lithium batteries inside the trailer under the dinette seat.......when i pick the trailer up next week. Yay.
I assume you mean lithium iron phosphate (aka LiFePO4, LFP) not lithium ion battery technology?
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:41 AM   #24
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The nice thing if you buy the Battleborns as an Escapees member at a much lower price you also get a three year swap warranty. I called Battleborn to ask what that is and they said if I purchase now and they make any improvements to the batteries over the next Four years, they will trade in my old batteries for the new batteries at no charge.
That is sweet insurance against rapidly changing lithium battery technology.
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Old 12-03-2020, 12:54 PM   #25
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Lol, lithium iron.....I always get confused with that. Now I have to figure it out. Fortunately I have a B Sc and a couple of years of physical chemistry so it should be doable.

Thanks for the correction.
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Old 12-03-2020, 01:00 PM   #26
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The nice thing if you buy the Battleborns as an Escapees member at a much lower price you also get a three year swap warranty. I called Battleborn to ask what that is and they said if I purchase now and they make any improvements to the batteries over the next Four years, they will trade in my old batteries for the new batteries at no charge.
That is sweet insurance against rapidly changing lithium battery technology.
Battleborn has had a large part of the rv market, i guess they are trying to keep it.....that is smart of them. The Renogy had great reviews and internally it was well built. So at $850 cdn each, I took a chance. Now I dont have to be one of those guys charging my batteries everyday with the generator.
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Old 12-03-2020, 01:13 PM   #27
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Absolutely, Juliet, and not filling water or having to check them regularly!
I can't wait to follow your install and hope you put up lot's of pics.

My Lithium install is ongoing as I've had to slowly upgrade all the pieces and parts needed to support the Lithium since I have a 2015. I'll be ready in January and the batteries will be plug n play when I order them. Only piece I have left to purchase and upgrade is the Wildkat for the converter charging module.

What are you going to do to compensate for the tongue weight where the batteries are located on the 19? The 19 is a "bit light in the loafers" on the tongue and I'm going to add a truck box where the batteries were and carry some of Vermilye's extra hardware when he sheds some of it.
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Old 12-03-2020, 04:01 PM   #28
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I assume you mean lithium iron phosphate (aka LiFePO4, LFP) not lithium ion battery technology?
Lithium iron phosphate (aka LiFePO4, LFP) is a specific variety of lithium-ion battery electrode technology; within lithium-ion technology there are variations of both electrodes and electrolytes. I don't know if Juliet was referring to progress in lithium-ion batteries overall, or specifically within LiFePO4.

LiFePO4 is the most popular choice among lithium-ion types for RV batteries (for a couple of reasons), but it does not have the highest performance (by the usual measures of energy density or power density).
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Old 12-03-2020, 05:58 PM   #29
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Absolutely, Juliet, and not filling water or having to check them regularly!
I can't wait to follow your install and hope you put up lot's of pics.

My Lithium install is ongoing as I've had to slowly upgrade all the pieces and parts needed to support the Lithium since I have a 2015. I'll be ready in January and the batteries will be plug n play when I order them. Only piece I have left to purchase and upgrade is the Wildkat for the converter charging module.

What are you going to do to compensate for the tongue weight where the batteries are located on the 19? The 19 is a "bit light in the loafers" on the tongue and I'm going to add a truck box where the batteries were and carry some of Vermilye's extra hardware when he sheds some of it.
We are going to pick up our trailer, check into a airbnb and do a lot of mods immediately. I have a truck full of stuff ready.......many of which will be easily recognized by those of us that follow this forum. Too funny, what a ridiculous way to do it, but covid is making life interesting.

Tongue weight. I have given a lot of thought to this. The generator will be stored in the storage box. Antifreeze, spare drinking water and possibly my toolbox as well. Anything heavy will go there. I hope it is enough. The E2 Fastway looks heavy, will that help with the tongue weight?

I have looked at the electrical components that are in the new trailers and I think I am okay (for now anyways) going to lithium batteries. I have bought a separate ac to dc battery charger specifically for lithium batteries and will charge from the generator with that when necessary. Still not sure about the details ( permanently attached etc).

I dont have measurents but I think the batteries will fit under the dinette on the drivers side with all the electronics. It will be tight and I will have to do some demolition and good bracing......they are so light, it is surprising when you pick them up.

We are also doing the bed mod with the ikea lonset slats and will be adding insulation in the storage area under the bed. We decided to treat the storage area as a warm area in an attempt to keep the pump from freezing and possibly letting us keep water in our tanks a little longer......

Any comments are appreciated.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:19 PM   #30
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... The E2 Fastway looks heavy, will that help with the tongue weight? ....
Not as tongue weight relates to the goal of 10-15% of gross trailer weight on the tongue for inherent sway-prevention purposes.

That because the far vast majority of the weight of a WDH is borne by the tow-vehicle receiver, not the trailer tongue behind the 'pivot point' of the hitch ball. IF the weight of the WDH were borne by the trailer tongue behind the hitch-ball it would be different, but it isn't (consider what's supporting the mass of the WDH just before you tension it's bars, or in the case of an Andersen, just before you tension the chains - it isn't the trailer tongue, it's the tow vehicle / receiver ).

The weight of the WDH is better considered as 'cargo weight' on the tow vehicle, counting against tow-vehicle payload (along with the 'bare' weight of the trailer tongue) and of course the GCWR of the total rig; not as a contribution to the Gross Trailer Weight or the trailer's tongue weight. A nuanced but important distinction when it comes to sway-prevention weight-distribution goals.

IMO.
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:44 PM   #31
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Not as tongue weight relates to the goal of 10-15% of gross trailer weight on the tongue for inherent sway-prevention purposes.

That because the far vast majority of the weight of a WDH is borne by the tow-vehicle receiver, not the trailer tongue behind the 'pivot point' of the hitch ball. IF the weight of the WDH were borne by the trailer tongue behind the hitch-ball it would be different, but it isn't (consider what's supporting the mass of the WDH just before you tension it's bars, or in the case of an Andersen, just before you tension the chains - it isn't the trailer tongue, it's the tow vehicle / receiver ).

The weight of the WDH is better considered as 'cargo weight' on the tow vehicle, counting against tow-vehicle payload (along with the 'bare' weight of the trailer tongue) and of course the GCWR of the total rig; not as a contribution to the Gross Trailer Weight or the trailer's tongue weight. A nuanced but important distinction when it comes to sway-prevention weight-distribution goals.

IMO.
Thanks Centex, more questions for you if that is okay.

I get that the weight of the WDH is borne by the tow vehicle. So how important is tongue weight, do I absolutely have to replace the battery weight plus more considering my understanding is that the tongue weight of the 19 is on the light side already. In addition, we are towing with a half ton, does this make it a little less crucial for us? In bad weather, I have had scary moments towing our lighter boat with a 1/2 ton, which is why I got the E2 Fastway.

The last thing I want to do is to make towing more difficult by pulling the batteries off the tongue.....can 100lbs ( minus the generator) make that much difference.
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:13 PM   #32
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.... So how important is tongue weight ....
Personally I'm a huge proponent / believer in the long-established 'rule-of-thumb' that one should aim for 10-15% of actual 'as loaded for travel' Gross Trailer Weight on the Tongue.

IMO / IME getting tongue weight at least into the middle of that range ensures the best inherent sway-prevention characteristics for a trailer while providing some 'contingency factor' for the inevitable weight-bias shifts encounters over a trip (E.g fluid transfer between tanks, addition / depletion of supplies / cargo, etc).

IMO / IME the beauty of using a WDH is that it allows one to err in the (beneficial) direction of more weight on the tongue while then allowing 'correction' for the sag-effect that has on the Tow Vehicle as long as one is always working within the many various weight limits of the trailer, TV, and overall rig.

Personally I've never towed with any sway-prevention 'crutch / add-on' such as friction bars, anti-sway WDH accessories, etc; I've always relied on the inherent characteristics of great handling that go with at least 13% of GTW on the tongue, never been shy to run more, and have always enjoyed relaxed and stable trailer-tracking in all conditions including quartering wind, passing big-rigs, evasive maneuvers (potholes / road debris), etc. That with a WDH when needed to achieve best 'rig attitude' and without WDH when not.

So, for me, Tongue Weight is a very important factor in setting-up a rig, and I'm inclined toward 'generous' tongue weight for the benefits I believe it imparts (stable / predictable 'follow-me tracking' and the relaxed driving that go with that). It's right up there with always 'matching' a trailer with a TV that is comfortably rated for that trailer, not at the edge of it's various limits, which can preclude achieving the trailer weight bias I consider so important.

I can't / won't comment on the specifics of your situation without all the actual weight data and rig specs pertinent to your situation - I have no idea if battery / generator location is critical to your situation and can't / won't make any assumptions based on piecemeal data.

YMMV and others may have differing opinions..
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:21 PM   #33
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Personally I'm a huge proponent / believer in the long-established 'rule-of-thumb' that one should aim for 10-15% of actual 'as loaded for travel' Gross Trailer Weight on the Tongue.

IMO / IME getting tongue weight at least into the middle of that range ensures the best inherent sway-prevention characteristics for a trailer while providing some 'contingency factor' for the inevitable weight-bias shifts encounters over a trip (E.g fluid transfer between tanks, addition / depletion of supplies / cargo, etc).

IMO / IME the beauty of using a WDH is that it allows one to err in the (beneficial) direction of more weight on the tongue while then allowing 'correction' for the sag-effect that has on the Tow Vehicle as long as one is always working with the many various weight limits of the trailer, TV, and overall rig.

Personally I've never towed with any sway-prevention 'crutch / add-on' such as friction bars, anti-sway WDH accessories, etc; I've always relied on the inherent characteristics of great handling that go with at least 13% of GTW on the tongue, never been shy to run more, and have always enjoyed relaxed and stable trailer-tracking in all conditions including quartering wind, passing big-rigs, evasive maneuvers (potholes / road debris), etc. that with a WDH when needed to achieve best 'rig attitude' and without WDH when not.

So, for me, Tongue Weight is a very important factor in setting-up a rig, and I'm inclined toward 'generous' tongue weight for the benefits I believe it imparts. It's right up there with always 'matching' a trailer with a TV that is comfortably rated for that trailer, not at the edge of it's various limits, which can preclude achieving the trailer weight bias I consider so important.

YMMV and others may have differing opinions..
That makes a lot of sense to me. We got the E2 Fastway as a tool, not as a crutch. I will look at the numbers and make a better stab at the 10-15 % tongue weight. Many thanks.
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Old 02-01-2021, 01:38 PM   #34
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Hi TomEscape,

I thought I would update you with how things went for us for our month on the road in the rainy PNW.

The lithium battery install was easy. The existing WFCO 8955 barely charged the batteries (when we were plugged in) at all. I will be changing out for the charging component with the WF-8950L2-MBA component shortly which I got from Amazon for $237 cdn.

The solar controller didn't add much solar power because we had wet and cloudy weather for much of the month. I have decided to buy a 40 amp MPPt solar controller that should help the solar charging a lot. I went with the Renogy Rover with the bluetooth controller for $199 cdn. Prices range from $100 to the $400s for solar controllers so I took a chance on the Renogy, just like I did with the batteries.

Power consumption while we were traveling for the month; the fan for the heater used the most power by far and the compressor fridge was second. Three lithium batteries handled this draw without blinking. We would charge the batteries every 3 to 4 days with the generator and an ac-dc charger, but we could have easily have gone another day. I cant be specific with number because the SOC% I was seeing wasnt a true number, but the lowest we ever saw was in the low 30%.

The biggest limitation for us was water and propane. The two tanks of propane only lasted us 2 weeks with average night time lows around 3-4 degrees celcius and some cooking as well. We didnt heat during the day. Thank goodness we got the compressor fridge option.

As for power, I dont think it will ever be a problem once I change out the components mentioned above.

Julie
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:55 PM   #35
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Hi JulietF, Thanks for your update. It sounds like you have a nice set up based on your needs/use. Based on how I envision using my 21C I will rarely be in one spot for more than 5 days. I think I will be good with the two lithium/190w roof solar and a zamp port so I can add portable later if my needs call for it.
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