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Old 08-21-2021, 10:41 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
For a functional stove without being a $500 upgrade the old Atwood 2 burner still performs. Unfortunately it isn't available(Lippert bought/killed products), else ETI may still be providing it. Weird how OEM's sometimes box themselves in with supplier choices and don't try to source elsewhere. An Atwood style still exists under another badge however and we haven't replaced ours as we're not fixing what isn't broke in being able to use a 12" fry pan along with a saucepan or smaller fry pan at the same time. AND it works at 12,000'. This is a current rendition: Flame King- available at Home Depot for $77.
In 2017 they were still using the Atwood, ours has worked flawlessly, however we rarely cook indoors. And when we have power I put an induction cooktop on the metal cover, which we like.
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Old 08-21-2021, 05:10 PM   #22
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new Dometic stoves

In communicating with ETI a few weeks back regarding useable pan size we were informed our 17B (to be completed in late October, '21) would have a Dometic D21-SEC stove. In checking the cooktop out on Dometic's website I saw the concerns re working at altitudes above 4,500' MSL. So I emailed Dometic about my concern, and this is their response: "Hello, There are no gas products that are designed to work above 5000ft. The gas to air mixture will not allow it." That was from their customer service.

It looks nice, and, hopefully it performs OK at higher elevations as we will be visiting many locations in excess of 5000'. We'll carry some form of backup, like a backpacking stove, just in case.
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Old 08-21-2021, 05:23 PM   #23
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Propane higher elevation jet

We have the Hutch Mountain propane conversion for our Honda EU2200i. HM will send you a different high elevation propane jet for use above 5000 ft. Unfortunately it is not a simple swap.

73/gus
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Old 08-21-2021, 05:42 PM   #24
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About 40 years ago we camped in a forest service campground at Rabbit Ears Pass in Colorado. It was over 9,000 feet. There was snow on the ground. The gravity furnace, propane refrigerator and stove all worked fine in our Venture fold down tent trailer. Canvas was a little stiff. We’d fire up the heater and let it run a while before setting up. That was SOP in those days. Glad to know that progress now touts propane appliances that will work at half that elevation. Has the lady on the phone ever been at 9,000, 10,000, 11,000 feet let alone camped there like a lot of us have? Who’s zooming who here?
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Old 08-21-2021, 06:03 PM   #25
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We were at Dumont Lake - Rabbit Ears Pass last September and had zero issues with any propane appliance. Those Customer No Service reps at Dometic are reading from a script no doubt and it's B.S. big time. Kinda like when we had big time problems with our local cellular network and the Carrier was telling us to tell customers it was due to radar at Vandernberg AFB. Turned out to be a landline failure in an underground vault 200 miles south. And our employees weren't telling that lie like the Carrier employees that had to do what they were told.
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Old 08-21-2021, 06:25 PM   #26
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The standard line “That’s the way they all are” is as old as the hills. Reminds me of watching my brother sell used cars in the 70s.

Attempting to “normalize” a failure to perform under circumstances that have actually been normal for decades raises design, materials and fabrication questions in my mind.

OTOH, maybe the Dickensen and Eno brands’ performance and reliability track records are better because offshore boats tend not to stray much above sea level.
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Old 08-21-2021, 07:47 PM   #27
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Unless they are at a sunny beach.
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Old 08-21-2021, 07:56 PM   #28
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I have a propane cooktop in my tent trailer that works flawlessly at 9,000 ft. Of course there is no thermo-coupler which is where the problem might be. Maybe not as safe, but it just works. I will be bummed if this cooktop fails above 4500ft. A good deal of our camping is at 6000 ft +. I'm about to sign off on my build sheet and this has me scratching my head.
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Old 08-21-2021, 09:10 PM   #29
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Might be on to something with that Ian. The Atwood 2/3 burner stoves are simple with no piezo lighter even.
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Old 08-21-2021, 10:30 PM   #30
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You would think that if any stove was going to act up at altitude it would be the Dickinson stoves. I would think that the designers were thinking of people using their product at sea level and not in yachts above 6,000 feet.
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Old 08-21-2021, 11:52 PM   #31
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Yeah, the gas is still going to come out through the burner holes. So maybe the only problem will be the need to light it manually instead of using the clunker... er, clicker.
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Old 08-22-2021, 10:16 AM   #32
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at altitude

Nancy must have the perfect touch because we have not had any problems lighting any thing up as high as Silverton, Co. as well another places just as high. That was with our 19, 21 and 17. We have only had the 5th wheel up over 7000' and it worked flawlessly. Of course she is the only one to touch any of the appliances.
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Old 08-22-2021, 12:25 PM   #33
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My 5.0 will be finished in a few weeks. Hope I get the that cooktop! My photos so far don’t show the counter.
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Old 08-22-2021, 12:27 PM   #34
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Yeah, the gas is still going to come out through the burner holes. So maybe the only problem will be the need to light it manually instead of using the clunker... er, clicker.
What comes out of the burner holes is a mixture of fuel and air, not just fuel. The problem at high elevation is that mixture doesn't have the right ratio, so it might not light, even with a match. Even if it lights, it might not burn hot enough to keep a stove with a thermocouple-based automatic shutoff going, and even without the shutoff if it isn't burning properly it shouldn't be used.

If controlled by an orifice as usual in a stove, the mixture becomes more rich (higher ratio of fuel to air) at lower atmospheric pressure (higher elevation), so a smaller orifice is the solution. "High-altitude" kits (replacement orifices) are available for residential stoves, but I wouldn't expect to find one for an RV appliance.
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Old 08-22-2021, 12:36 PM   #35
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What comes out of the burner holes is a mixture of fuel and air, not just fuel. The problem at high elevation is that mixture doesn't have the right ratio, so it might not light, even with a match. Even if it lights, it might not burn hot enough to keep a stove with a thermocouple-based automatic shutoff going, and even without the shutoff if it isn't burning properly it shouldn't be used.

If controlled by an orifice as usual in a stove, the mixture becomes more rich (higher ratio of fuel to air) at lower atmospheric pressure (higher elevation), so a smaller orifice is the solution. "High-altitude" kits (replacement orifices) are available for residential stoves, but I wouldn't expect to find one for an RV appliance.
Brian, I have seen mentioned a number of times reducing the propane pressure at higher altitudes when appliances have trouble. Does this have a similar effect to a smaller orifice, i.e. lowering the amount of propane in the mixture? I would think that it might have at least some effect along those lines but not nearly the same effect a smaller orifice. Easier to do on a temporary basis, though.
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Old 08-22-2021, 01:12 PM   #36
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.... reducing the propane pressure at higher altitudes when appliances have trouble. Does this have a similar effect to a smaller orifice, i.e. lowering the amount of propane in the mixture? I would think that it might have at least some effect along those lines but not nearly the same effect a smaller orifice. Easier to do on a temporary basis, though.
It is correct that, all other things being equal, reducing the inlet pressure at an orifice will reduce the flowrate (mass/time) of the gas passing through the orifice. Lacking any other 'solution' this may have benefit at higher altitude as suggested, helping to bring the air/fuel mass mixture downstream of the orifice into better relative proportion for combustion.

Note that the "all other things" (being equal) may differ between, say, a stove burner and a furnace burner, so reducing the 'system pressure' by a given amount at the tank regulator may yield varying degrees of '(closer to) joy' for different appliances. Similarly, the propane pressure reduction that works best for a 'large' stove burner may not work as well for a 'small' burner or an oven burner.

Nope, I've no idea at all about how this would 'play' with various thermocouples / safety devices on any given appliance.

https://www.efunda.com/formulae/flui...meter.cfm#calc
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Old 08-22-2021, 06:23 PM   #37
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Brian, I have seen mentioned a number of times reducing the propane pressure at higher altitudes when appliances have trouble. Does this have a similar effect to a smaller orifice, i.e. lowering the amount of propane in the mixture? I would think that it might have at least some effect along those lines but not nearly the same effect a smaller orifice. Easier to do on a temporary basis, though.
Yes, good point.
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Old 08-22-2021, 07:14 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
What comes out of the burner holes is a mixture of fuel and air, not just fuel. The problem at high elevation is that mixture doesn't have the right ratio, so it might not light, even with a match. Even if it lights, it might not burn hot enough to keep a stove with a thermocouple-based automatic shutoff going, and even without the shutoff if it isn't burning properly it shouldn't be used.

If controlled by an orifice as usual in a stove, the mixture becomes more rich (higher ratio of fuel to air) at lower atmospheric pressure (higher elevation), so a smaller orifice is the solution. "High-altitude" kits (replacement orifices) are available for residential stoves, but I wouldn't expect to find one for an RV appliance.
Well, doggone it. I ass-umed that the mixing with air was only happening when the gas exited the burner holes and met the ambient air.


Sounds like it pays to carry some alternate fuel methods for cooking. Charcoal, wood, sterno, etc. More stuff to pack and haul around!
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Old 08-26-2021, 12:14 AM   #39
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Well, I bought the same stove to replace my failed S2S in my 2018 5.0TA. After much research and purchasing the domestic cook top, some wise guy here warned me the stove has had issues at higher altitudes. So, I contacted Dometic and sure enough they confirmed the elevation limitations. Unfortunately it was too late for me to return the product. I installed it and I have to say I enjoyed the larger BTUs. Works fantastic! Well, until my trip to Oregon where I decided to test the claims. First pass was 5,500 ft elevation. Pulled over and went in for a test. Fridge worked great and the system was primed. Turned the first burner knob and heard a burst of gas. Thinking all was good, the gas flow abruptly stopped and the burner would not fire. I continued down the highway in disappointment. Found another pass and wondered maybe I should have tested both burners. I again pulled over and attempted to light the stove but this time neither burners would emit gas and would not light. It seems to me domestic used a regulator that is good for higher BTUs but lousy for altitude. Does anyone make a good gas stove top and convection oven microwave combo?
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Old 08-26-2021, 05:42 AM   #40
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Camping at 10,000 feet

If you are looking for bragging rights or a place to test your propane devices, the KOA at Cripple Creek, CO, bills themselves as the "Highest KOA in North America."

We don't normally stay at many KOAs but couldn't resist this one on the west side of Pike's Peak several years ago, camping with our friends, ATHiker, also in their Escape classic 21.

Every night is cool there, and their season is pretty short, but I don't recall any propane issues, although we did have hook-ups. I recall that it was 27 degrees F. with frost in early June, as we pulled out. Nice owners and very few campers, since it's pretty out of the way.
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