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Old 04-18-2018, 02:41 PM   #21
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If I think to pull my soft kneeling pad under there with me for under my head, a nap may ensue. Concrete in the shade, power troweled and holding last nights cool, it can call me. I am not Claustrophobic. But sometimes workophobic.
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thoer View Post
I'm too lazy to draw it all out, (and its been too long since my last physics classs) but I keep seeing the force applied to lever arms of the ordinary (non-Andersen) WDH being applied between the tow frame where the WDH attaches and the hitch and the opposite forces exerted on the tow vehicle. I can visualize some stress being applied backward on the tow frame to the axle, but again it seems like much more applied to the tow itself. But it would not be the first time my again memory of physics was wrong....
We had about 200 going up to the TV and 100 going back to the trailer as seen at scales.
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:54 PM   #23
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If I think to pull my soft kneeling pad under there with me for under my head, a nap may ensue. Concrete in the shade, power troweled and holding last nights cool, it can call me. I am not Claustrophobic. But sometimes workophobic.
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The real question is can you drink beer in this position ?
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:55 PM   #24
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We had about 200 going up to the TV and 100 going back to the trailer as seen at scales.
Thanks for that report Cathy. Remind me again how you made your measurements?
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:58 PM   #25
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Thanks for that report Cathy. Remind me again how you made your measurements?
With and without WDH and you will see the difference, if that is what you mean. The last time I went the scales did not work right and I did not look until home. They are not always that great.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:02 PM   #26
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With and without WDH and you will see the difference, if that is what you mean. The last time I went the scales did not work right and I did not look until home.
No, I meant physically- how you made your measurements at the scales?
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:07 PM   #27
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No idea any more. It was years ago. Just can tell you the weights from the scales. No doubt you are more fastidious than us on it!
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:17 PM   #28
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There's nothing wrong with an aluminum frame per se, provided you take into account that the aluminum won't have the same characteristics as steel when you go to designing and building it. That usually means gusseted joints, thicker stock, and precise welds. Designed and built properly, an aluminum frame can be exceptionally strong, and with a better strength to weight ratio than a steel one. It'd be interesting to know how Oliver builds their frames, and where the failure points are.

And for those who've been paying attention, steel frames fail quite a bit too. Some even on Escapes.

The one very valid point, as I see it, is that in case of needed repairs, you can find someone to weld steel almost anywhere. With aluminum, not so much.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:18 PM   #29
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Here's an old thread on the subject. I would think you just drive over the scales, getting the weight of each axle, then remove the WDH bars and drive over the scales again.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...ments-361.html
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:31 PM   #30
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I sometimes wonder how much real engineering evaluation goes into the design of most trailer frames. I suspect that engineering inputs are minimal and that many "experienced" frame manufacturers feel they are adequately qualified to build a simple trailer frame without outside help, and they may consider having the frame analysed in detail by a competent mechanical engineer to be superfluous. I believe that Reace mentioned ETI had recently retained an engineering consultant to review the frame design of the 19'. To me that suggests that the 19' frames may not have had any significant engineering reviews/inputs prior to the recent frame failure incident.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:38 PM   #31
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I sometimes wonder how much real engineering evaluation goes into the design of most trailer frames. I suspect that engineering inputs are minimal and that many "experienced" frame manufacturers feel they are adequately qualified to build a simple trailer frame without outside help, and they may consider having the frame analysed in detail by a competent mechanical engineer to be superfluous. I believe that Reace mentioned ETI had recently retained an engineering consultant to review the frame design of the 19'. To me that suggests that the 19' frames may not have had any significant engineering reviews/inputs prior to the recent frame failure incident.
Great news Dave , not . Anyway we have 4 in and luckily don't need or use any weight or sway hitches . We have a 8 ft bed . Pat
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:03 PM   #32
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Here's an old thread on the subject. I would think you just drive over the scales, getting the weight of each axle, then remove the WDH bars and drive over the scales again.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...ments-361.html

But, if the WDH raises the front of the trailer, isn't just that height change going to change the weight a scale registers on the trailer axle? I'd think you would have to take 2 measurements of the trailer axle weight - with the trailer front height being exactly the same in both. The difference being in one the WDH was attached and the other it was not? For an accurate tongue weight I know the trailer needs to be as level as possible. Or since the axle is the fulcrum it doesn't matter?

I think I'm confusing myself - time for a homebrew!
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:52 PM   #33
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I donít have a dog in this hunt and know that there are probably some instances where assumptions and adaptations on trailer frames are incorrectly made. Ladder type frames and X frames have been around a long time. There was a time in America when frames were built and over built and the load on them was not as consequential as the marginality of the ďthis will doĒ specification that pervades out society today. In my considered opinion
Hereís a Dusenberg frame that would get the job done on a two or three story Oliver, Escape, Bigfoot combo. She was, as my Dad would say, built hell for stout.
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:55 PM   #34
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When the Dusenberg broke down, you could then use the frame as a bridge over small creeks.
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:10 PM   #35
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More likely to run out of gas. But there arenít many campers that will insure for
16 mil either. Auburn,Cord, Duesenburg Museum, Auburn, Indiana, who is the studley old guy in that Dodge touring car?
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:23 PM   #36
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More likely to run out of gas. But there arenít many campers that will insure for
16 mil either. Auburn,Cord, Duesenburg Museum, Auburn, Indiana, who is the studley old guy in that Dodge touring car?
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Well if that ain't our 2017 Torque Your Nuts contest winner. So that's where he has been practicing
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:32 PM   #37
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As a kid I always thought theses extreme pictures explained best to me what a WDH is capable of doing. Look Ma...there are no wheels on the back of that car!
On a flat surface everything it great...but when you drive up a steep embankment, say into a raised gas station lot, ferry deck, camp spot, it unloads the rear wheels and forms a bridge between the front wheels and the trailer wheels. That can be a lot of weight to span. If you look at the frame of an F150 and the frame of a trailer in that span you can see what is the weak link.
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:42 PM   #38
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Then you had Candid Camera with a Citroen going into a service station on 3 wheels
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:43 PM   #39
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Didn't think I'd get a prompt to use this old favorite this week after it came to mind last week.
How do you know an Iowan is driving that Oldsmobile Tornado?
Snow tires on the rear wheels.
Rimshot please!
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Old 04-18-2018, 06:23 PM   #40
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I sometimes wonder how much real engineering evaluation goes into the design of most trailer frames. I suspect that engineering inputs are minimal and that many "experienced" frame manufacturers feel they are adequately qualified to build a simple trailer frame without outside help, and they may consider having the frame analysed in detail by a competent mechanical engineer to be superfluous.
That seems very likely to me.

Even race car structures are routinely built by rule-of-thumb and guesswork, and successfully used. They're far from optimal, but if a sufficiently conservative approach is taken it works.
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