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Old 08-18-2017, 08:39 AM   #41
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A vent pipe is designed to displace air and vent fumes , it is not designed to carry waste ( liquids or Solids)
An overflow pipe is designed to drain away excess liquids.
If you run waste water thru the vent pipe then the vent pipe will eventually plug with debris / solids / soap scum / food waste etc.
A plumbing vent is supposed to be run higher than the rim of a sink so that water does not back up into the vent if the sink overflows.

After reading this thread I am still not sure about 2 things

1) Does the Escape currently vent the bathroom sink , kitchen sink and shower directly to the atmosphere outside the trailer ?
2 Does the Escape currently supply overflow piping for the gray tank that drains directly to the exterior of the trailer ?
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Old 08-18-2017, 08:53 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by thoer View Post
Not easily. The top of the vent looks to be higher than either the kitchen or bathroom sink drains. In the non-pressured grey water system, there is no way to get the waste water higher than those drains.
And the shower floor drain, for sure. Something starts to smell funny, crack open the shower floor drain. If anything starts seeping up and out onto the floor, it's past time to drain!
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Old 08-18-2017, 08:57 AM   #43
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And the shower floor drain, for sure. Something starts to smell funny, crack open the shower floor drain. If anything starts seeping up and out onto the floor, it's past time to drain!
A cheap bucket and a few walks to the nearest toilet is the method a ranger at Yellowstone taught me for dealing with an approaching full grey water tank. Pretty simple actually...
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Old 08-18-2017, 09:03 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by skiman View Post
So on an old 21' it could overflow hidden behind the cubby by the door if overfilled?
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Originally Posted by thoer View Post
Not easily. The top of the vent looks to be higher than either the kitchen or bathroom sink drains. In the non-pressured grey water system, there is no way to get the waste water higher than those drains.
Glad to hear this issue may be inherently solved on the 21. On the 19 I'm curious if the vent pipe rim is indeed lower than the bath sink rim as Klem indicates then why wasn't the issue of a possible overflow handled another way? I can understand that this pipe is under the wardrobe so they likely didn't want to extend the pipe higher to reduce closet space, but it could have been boxed in neatly at the back and even taken all the way up to the roof. Since our 2010 has an exterior overflow fitting at the wheel well I just wonder why that was eliminated.
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Old 08-18-2017, 09:04 AM   #45
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If I remember correctly your bathroom is in the front and would be plumbed totally different then a 19? That would make a huge difference in overflow and/or odor?
Yes, my bathroom is in the front. I don't know about overflow, but I guess I could still get gray tank odor from the vent underneath the bathroom lavatory.

But I've got it right now, anyway: Right after posting last night I opened my bathroom door and saw that the bathroom floor was flooded; I had washed dishes and the sink full of water had filled the gray water tank. Serves me right.

Woodhead Park has small gray water dump stations scattered about, so I'll drain off a few buckets of gray water and dump them. Hope I remember to pull the correct valve.
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Old 08-18-2017, 09:23 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
After reading this thread I am still not sure about 2 things
1) Does the Escape currently vent the bathroom sink , kitchen sink and shower directly to the atmosphere outside the trailer ?
Steve: What I have concluded is that it all varies by year and model. Our 2010 19 has no vent that is apparent for the kitchen sink, but based on previous posts one was added at some point on the 19 as evidenced by the additional roof vent. The original poster of this thread found an open ended pipe near their galley sink inside their 17. On our older 19 I haven't seen an open ended pipe near the galley sink and I've been around there for a few mods. There is of course the open vent pipe inside the trailer for the bathroom sink and shower under the wardrobe in the 19 that has consumed much of this thread and was the basis of the older thread I linked.

2 Does the Escape currently supply overflow piping for the gray tank that drains directly to the exterior of the trailer ?

It doesn't sound like many trailers have an actual exterior overflow, hence the talk about overflowing into the shower pan (if you have the drain plug removed). Our 2010 19 does happen to have one which resides in the passenger side wheel well. I know it works because I purposely maxed out the tank a few months ago to get a real good drain of the tank.
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Old 08-18-2017, 03:39 PM   #47
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All joking aside the draining is painfully slow towards the end because the cross section of the drain diminishes. I'm always happy if the dump station area slopes towards the outlet. I, too, sometimes put a block under the wheels to speed up complete drainage.

Ron
Duhhhh, so I need to warm it and smash it flat LOL. That does explain it, thanks.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:45 PM   #48
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There is of course the open vent pipe inside the trailer for the bathroom sink and shower under the wardrobe in the 19 that has consumed much of this thread and was the basis of the older thread I linked.
Upon further inspection today (through the hole for the furnace switch) I was able to determine that our trailer actually does have an air admittance vent installed. I was able to read J&B Products Pro Vent 140 on the top. So it is interesting that these were used on early 19ís and then omitted. Maybe piping design changes...for example I donít think we have the trap arrangement outside at the gray tank that Ron shows in post #14. Maybe the AAV was deemed unnecessary in these later models, but there still remains a practical need for an AAV if the traps are shallow and cannot maintain a perfect seal.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:59 PM   #49
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Yep. Look at the piping in the pic below. The drain piping going to the bathroom sink vents behind the cubby space in the wall.

The p trap for the shower/bath sink used to be installed backwards making the drain piping below the grey tank connection causing the stink. So even with the drains closed, the stink would come up the vent.

Escape has changed the location of the p trap on the later 2017 21's to prevent this.
Thanks very much for posting this picture.

P trap or no, I am not impressed, this seems like a dumb design to me. Even with a valve on top of this vent, I am not convinced that it will still be operating leak free ten years from now. The trailer is a small space, it takes bloody little gas to make the place stink.

It would be a small inconvenience if I could get at the vent top once the trailer is finished, but unless this picture misses something, it seems that I will have to cut my way to the pipe top to get a vent hose on it. Not amused.

I have forwarded the picture and asked ETI about it.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:28 PM   #50
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Things to worry about.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:05 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by AllanEdie View Post
Thanks very much for posting this picture.

P trap or no, I am not impressed, this seems like a dumb design to me. Even with a valve on top of this vent, I am not convinced that it will still be operating leak free ten years from now. The trailer is a small space, it takes bloody little gas to make the place stink.

It would be a small inconvenience if I could get at the vent top once the trailer is finished, but unless this picture misses something, it seems that I will have to cut my way to the pipe top to get a vent hose on it. Not amused.

I have forwarded the picture and asked ETI about it.
I wasn't too happy with the traps on my trailer either. That's why I removed all the traps and replaced them with Hepvo valves. No odors, no vents needed, so no problems.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...21-a-9445.html
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...all-12288.html

It seems that none of the trap plumbing on my 21' would have met US plumbing code - from the incorrect type of traps to the lack of venting on the galley sink. Rease tries to do the best he can with the plumbing but is limited with what he can do due to layout and space restrictions. The Hepvo valves fixes all the problems but he had a bad experience with them leaking due to his guys not knowing how to install them properly and stopped using them. The good news is that with half a days work, both traps can be replaced and the issue is resolved.

My previous trailer was a Casita and we struggled with them to install Hepvos for years before they became standard on all their trailers. Who knows, maybe it will happen with Escape some day as well.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:53 AM   #52
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Have folks had problems with the way it comes from the factory? I haven't.
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:14 AM   #53
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🤔 So far ours works just fine, so not sure exactly whatís there.
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:16 AM   #54
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Have folks had problems with the way it comes from the factory? I haven't.


Both my 19 and 5.0TA work fine too, no smell or any other problems with plumbing.


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Old 02-19-2018, 09:34 AM   #55
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I wasn't too happy with the traps on my trailer either. That's why I removed all the traps and replaced them with Hepvo valves. No odors, no vents needed, so no problems.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...21-a-9445.html
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...all-12288.html

It seems that none of the trap plumbing on my 21' would have met US plumbing code - from the incorrect type of traps to the lack of venting on the galley sink. Rease tries to do the best he can with the plumbing but is limited with what he can do due to layout and space restrictions. The Hepvo valves fixes all the problems but he had a bad experience with them leaking due to his guys not knowing how to install them properly and stopped using them. The good news is that with half a days work, both traps can be replaced and the issue is resolved.

My previous trailer was a Casita and we struggled with them to install Hepvos for years before they became standard on all their trailers. Who knows, maybe it will happen with Escape some day as well.
We also replaced a few P-traps in our Casita with the Hepvo valves. Good mod I think.

Casita had an actual valve you had to open prior to showering prior to the mod. God forbit you forgot to open it (it's on the outside!) prior to showering ! Ahhh!?!
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:36 AM   #56
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Have folks had problems with the way it comes from the factory? I haven't.
Escape makes a good trailer - that's why I bought one. It's not perfect but my feelings are that it is better than all the others for the price. So as my sig line says: If It Isn’t Perfect, It Isn’t Finished. That's why I changed the plumbing on my trailer. Below are the issues I had:

1. Grey tank smells coming up in the shower area due to the trap being installed backwards and sometimes being empty due to trailer movement. I forgot to put the shower plug in one time before moving the trailer and got grey water sloshing in and out of the shower pan. My bad but it shouldn't happen anyway.
2. Galley sink not draining with the new faucet on the 2017's. The new faucet puts out a large volume of water that the sink drain could not handle. Also, after trailer movement, the trap would sometimes empty and grey tank smells would come out of it.

Note that I live in Texas where 100 deg temps are not uncommon. It's 79 deg today in Baytown where up north, you may still have snow on the ground. So we tend to keep the trailer closed up with the AC on. If you vent the trailer more, the smells may not have a chance to accumulate like ours does.

Others may have other issues as Rease has been improving the trailers over the years ( He has somewhat the same motto as I) and may have different plumbing than I have.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:14 AM   #57
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Things to worry about.
Fortunately for my wife and I at this time of year, we live out of town where the problem is more or less not an issue.

I used to live in town some years ago, and at times the air quality there was grim. The problem as you may know is largely wood fired heating of homes, particularly in older stove designs that allow the load to smoulder. Lots of houses close together = more smoke in a confined area. When cold temperatures encourage more burning, often during inversion conditions, the smoke from all those stoves just hangs around at street level. It can get pretty thick.

It is -23C or so this morning, so if the air is still, it will be getting worse in town.

Anyway, back to the thread, I take your point (I think) that I may be worrying about nothing, but as far as I am concerned venting the grey tank into the interior air is stupid on principle. At this point, I am still hoping that something ETI now does, or can do during our build, can fix this, but fixed it will be, even if surgery by yours truly is needed.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:26 AM   #58
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Open sewer vent pipe in cabin..Really?!!!

An air admittance valve should only allow air into the system not sewer gas out.
They are used quite often in areas where vents arenít feasible such as kitchen islands etc.

Cheers
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:33 AM   #59
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An air admittance valve should only allow air into the system not sewer gas out.
They are used quite often in areas where vents arenít feasible such as kitchen islands etc.

Cheers
Doug
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the issue was that over time, the valve could leak and at least on my 21', there is no way to get to it without cutting the wall open. It's hidden in the wall.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:43 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by tdf-texas View Post
I wasn't too happy with the traps on my trailer either. That's why I removed all the traps and replaced them with Hepvo valves. No odors, no vents needed, so no problems.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...21-a-9445.html
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...all-12288.html

It seems that none of the trap plumbing on my 21' would have met US plumbing code - from the incorrect type of traps to the lack of venting on the galley sink. Rease tries to do the best he can with the plumbing but is limited with what he can do due to layout and space restrictions. The Hepvo valves fixes all the problems but he had a bad experience with them leaking due to his guys not knowing how to install them properly and stopped using them. The good news is that with half a days work, both traps can be replaced and the issue is resolved.

My previous trailer was a Casita and we struggled with them to install Hepvos for years before they became standard on all their trailers. Who knows, maybe it will happen with Escape some day as well.
Excellent solution, much better than the surgery I had in mind. If ETI isn't fixing this issue, I will be doing more or less exactly what you have done. Thanks very much for the information.

In case my comments on this vent issue are taken to be harsh criticism of ETI, I should add that I appreciate how much of a challenge it is to get all this stuff sorted to everyone's satisfaction. Every choice is some sort of compromise among lots of factors including space and configuration available, staff availability and skills, cost implications for materials, labor, staff training etc. What ETI does seem to get dead right is that they listen and do their best to improve their product in response to concerns. Hats off to them for that basic attitude.
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