Poll re Escape Quality

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I have read many of your posts and, well, I will decline to comment on it.

I will, however, defend Kavindra’s statement of the existence of two diametrically opposed syndromes. I had very few issues with my Reace/Tammy era trailer. At that time, ownership bent over backwards to address those issues. I have little experience with the current ownership so I cannot definitively speak. But if there are any quality issues, whining (I would like to use a different word) about them or telling them to avoid polls, to read the forum, or that polls tell you absolutely nothing is not the solution. There are no complicated items that are manufactured and see any degree of use (non-museum/archival items excluded) that with time remain perfect. Even a simple common pin can get dull from excessive use. There isn’t a single person on this forum or who owns an Escape trailer who can tell you in all honesty that 10 years after delivery it has not had a single malfunction or normal maintenance issue or that from the start quality was so lacking that it was a total POS. Unfortunately, those suffering from either symptom often put emotion over reasonable honesty when discussing ETI and it’s product. That being said, I find my 5.0TA to be the best, most but not entirely problem free travel trailer I have ever owned.

Hi: C&G in FL... I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot poll. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: C&G in FL... I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot poll. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

Well, there are polls and there are “polls.” ‘Nuf said!

[Dave Walter]

I began looking for an Escape nearly 10 years ago and have had our 19' for over 8 years. I have owned our 15B for about 4 yrs. In the time that I have been following Escapes my own observations are that:

1) The overall quality of Escape's own work product has generally undergone improvement with time, although there have been issues arise from time to time that have needed corrections (frame recalls, plumbing refits, etc).

2) The quality of add-ons to the Escapes (fridges, stoves, A/C's, windows, awnings, etc) seems to have deteriorated over time, particularly in the last few years.

3) Escape's willingness to correct deficiencies in their product, including add-ons by others, has deteriorated substantially since the change in ownership.

4) Some of the major manufacturer's of add-ons (Dometic in particular) have demonstrated greater and greater resistance in recent years to correct deficiencies in their products. This combined with a lack of interest on Escapes part to help remedy things has made ownership of an Escape with a defective add-on a very stressful experience.

5) Escape's willingness to "go that extra mile" for their customers has all but disappeared since the change in Ownership. I wonder how Escape will fare when the current high demand for travel trailers falls off and competition becomes more fierce.

Of course, these are just my own observations based on my own experiences and from watching and listening on this forum and elsewhere. Others may feel differently.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Dave Walter

I began looking for an Escape nearly 10 years ago and have had our 19' for over 8 years. I have owned our 15B for about 4 yrs. In the time that I have been following Escapes my own observations are that:

1) The overall quality of Escape's own work product has generally undergone improvement with time, although there have been issues arise from time to time that have needed corrections (frame recalls, plumbing refits, etc).

2) The quality of add-ons to the Escapes (fridges, stoves, A/C's, windows, awnings, etc) seems to have deteriorated over time, particularly in the last few years.

3) Escape's willingness to correct deficiencies in their product, including add-ons by others, has deteriorated substantially since the change in ownership.

4) Some of the major manufacturer's of add-ons (Dometic in particular) have demonstrated greater and greater resistance in recent years to correct deficiencies in their products. This combined with a lack of interest on Escapes part to help remedy things has made ownership of an Escape with a defective add-on a very stressful experience.

5) Escape's willingness to "go that extra mile" for their customers has all but disappeared since the change in Ownership. I wonder how Escape will fare when the current high demand for travel trailers falls off and competition becomes more fierce.

Of course, these are just my own observations based on my own experiences and from watching and listening on this forum and elsewhere. Others may feel differently.

Unfortunatelly,

The Dometic SDS2 stove top leaking and no warning from Escape is especially disturbing, and that then becomes Escapes issue even more than Dometic's.

Perry

[cpaharley2008]

This poll just confirms why I'm buying #5..........peace of mind with the product........

[azjack]

I just don't have things to fix when I arrive at home with my trailer and I'm pleasantly surprised when I find small improvements, ie the pad under the water pump to make it quieter such as I did once years ago on one of our Escapes. We are very happy with our 2021 5th wheel. Of course we only have nearly 60 years of trailer and RV experience.

AZjack

[drjp]

So, joining in (whatever it’s worth):

2017 17B (recently sold in 5 days for ask):
1. Water heater wouldn’t light within days of delivery, this put a crimp in our first Canada trip, but we could still use the electric side to heat it. I went through the algorithm with Reace, diagnosed a bad Dometic control board, he drop shipped me a new one and I put it in with his detailed instructions. Worked fine until recently when the electric side failed. Since we almost always just used gas, I disclosed to the new owner and he should be fine.
2. One small drawer wasn’t installed properly; would not travel properly on its rails. Easy fix. Rest of fit and finish excellent.
3. Driven crazy by the funky LP leak alarm until I put in a new one with an extra cut off switch (just in case). A well-documented issue on this forum. No probs since replacement.
Everything else was just other minor wear and tear or “user error”—my bad. Overall the 17 was a Swiss Army knife; loved it.
Camp. Don’t sweat the small stuff.
Fall colors for us in new 5.0 soon! [emoji1696]

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Dave Walter

I began looking for an Escape nearly 10 years ago and have had our 19' for over 8 years. I have owned our 15B for about 4 yrs. In the time that I have been following Escapes my own observations are that:

1) The overall quality of Escape's own work product has generally undergone improvement with time, although there have been issues arise from time to time that have needed corrections (frame recalls, plumbing refits, etc).

2) The quality of add-ons to the Escapes (fridges, stoves, A/C's, windows, awnings, etc) seems to have deteriorated over time, particularly in the last few years.

3) Escape's willingness to correct deficiencies in their product, including add-ons by others, has deteriorated substantially since the change in ownership.

4) Some of the major manufacturer's of add-ons (Dometic in particular) have demonstrated greater and greater resistance in recent years to correct deficiencies in their products. This combined with a lack of interest on Escapes part to help remedy things has made ownership of an Escape with a defective add-on a very stressful experience.

5) Escape's willingness to "go that extra mile" for their customers has all but disappeared since the change in Ownership. I wonder how Escape will fare when the current high demand for travel trailers falls off and competition becomes more fierce.

Of course, these are just my own observations based on my own experiences and from watching and listening on this forum and elsewhere. Others may feel differently.

Dave you pretty much said it all ! Pat

[gbaglo]

And, surprise, I concur. However, I've not had any contact with Escape since KV took over. I'm not in the market for a trailer of any description.

[johnnyv]

Yep, well said from this newbie. IMO.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

And, surprise, I concur. However, I've not had any contact with Escape since KV took over. I'm not in the market for a trailer of any description.

Me neither Glenn ! Pat

[Centex]

FWIW, as a prospective 2021 Escape 5.0 owner what I've gleaned insofar as issues of 'quality' ....

I can probably expect quality that's typical of the industry at large in regard to

• 3rd party components
• Trailer manufacturer-fabricated utility systems (electrical / plumbing)
• Trailer manufacturer support after sales

I can probably expect quality that's at least a tad above typical of the industry at large in regard to

• Interior construction and materials

I can probably expect quality that's well-above typical of the industry at large in regard to

• Body (shell/hull) construction, integrity, and longevity
• Feature customization opportunity

I recognize that some of the above may have ranked 'higher' in ETI's past, but this is 2021 so that's my index.

I recognize that "the industry at large" is a big and varied group, and there are certainly exceptions in every category, but IMO / IME none excel in all categories.

I also posit that in terms of 'quality of design' (for lack of a better expression), the Escape 5.0 in particular is over-the-horizon compared to the rest of the industry in that it's a unique offering in a size-class of its own (Scamp 19 notwithstanding).

To me it's important to note that in no category is there indication that ETI is measurably below industry 'typical / average / norms'.

I'm compelled to point out that none of my impressions or expectations are based on any "poll"; they're based on extensive research on this and many other forums (including this thread) and most importantly my own one-on-one observations, experience, and conversations with other RV owners (I'm not new to the community of RV ownership by any means). I'm mature enough in this arena to know that no RV is 'perfect' as delivered, and every RV manufacturer suffers shortcomings at one time or another both before and after sales.

So, I've every expectation and confidence that my 2021 'post Reace and Tammy' Escape 5.0 will, while not being perfect, prove to be a long-term more-than-satisfying purchase because of the sum-total of its 'qualities'.

I'd suggest that none of this makes me a 'cheerleader' or blind-supporter or rabid-advocate for ETI, it's a reflection of pragmatism.

Other prospective purchasers may come to a different conclusion, fair enuf. I would simply urge that they not base their conclusions on any "poll" (with its limitations and lack of depth inherent in the short-form of the presentation), but on diligent, wide-ranging, depth-seeking, and carefully considered research tempered with judgment applicable to your interests.

Just for your consideration, YMMV, Have Fun!

[camp4528]

Centex,

I agree with the limited usefulness of any poll (we need only look at recent US federal elections) and this one in particular. But the results do provide a point in time sense of how current Escape owners are feeling about their purchases. Biased of course, but there.

Nothing compares with the thoroughness you and many other forum contributors bring to us in researching and reporting findings across a wide range of topics of interest to current owners, future owners and prospective owners.

Thank you as always for your considered responses.

[davidmurphy02]

84% of RV brands are owned and controlled by two companies, Thor and Forest River. A third, Rev Group, has another 10%. All the other niche brands combined comprise only 6% of RV sales. The RV appliance and component industry is the same way - Dometic, Airxcel, Lippert make almost everything, and most of their production goes to Thor and Forest River.

Small RV manufacturers like Escape are pretty much at the mercy of whatever the big companies produce. And if there are shortages or problems, I doubt Escape's call to Dometic is the first one they answer. These are challenging times for sure, between the pandemic, soaring demand, supply chain shortages and disruptions, and now price increases in many things. Certainly ETI is not perfect, and some of the things that we have seen reported that have made it out the door of the factory should have been caught and indicate the need for better QC, but given the unmatched level of customization that they offer I think they are still doing a pretty good job and better than most RV manufacturers.

In the past year I suspect their customer base has changed and that first time RV buyers are making up a bigger percentage of sales. Trying to cater both to experienced RV'ers who want infinte customization and high tech equipment options as well as first time campers with limited knowledge and experience must be tough. I used to joke that in order to buy an Escape you should first have to own some other brand so that you'd truly appreciate the Escape when you got it, and that's probably true now more than ever. When we bought our 5.0 I knew full well that being 2,500 miles from the factory and having no dealer support I'd pretty much be on my own with any appliance issues, and since this wasn't our first trailer I knew there would be some. But I also knew that the fiberglass shell would last forever, the cabinetry was very solid and well made, and most other things that could go wrong would be fixable and that has been the case.

I just replaced our 25 year old dishwasher at home with a shiny new one that I expect will last 5 years. Our 25 year old fridge is still going strong, but if you buy a new one today it likely won't be around nearly that long. RV components seem to be following a similar path and that kind of sucks, but it's just the way things are now - dealing with more mechanical problems with components is the price of going camping, it seems. And while ETI is certainly not perfect and could stand to improve in some areas, if I was buying a trailer today it would definitely be an Escape.

[cpaharley2008]

I have no issues of purchasing something made outside of the USA because I have seen first hand the quality of the product and I like what I see. My first 2 Escapes were delivered to my home. Subsequent purchases were made at the factory in BC. I thoroughly enjoy driving out and picking up a new Escape from BC as Chilliwack is a beautiful place.

[Eggscape]

Originally Posted by Dave Walter

I began looking for an Escape nearly 10 years ago and have had our 19' for over 8 years. I have owned our 15B for about 4 yrs. In the time that I have been following Escapes my own observations are that:

1) The overall quality of Escape's own work product has generally undergone improvement with time, although there have been issues arise from time to time that have needed corrections (frame recalls, plumbing refits, etc).

2) The quality of add-ons to the Escapes (fridges, stoves, A/C's, windows, awnings, etc) seems to have deteriorated over time, particularly in the last few years.

3) Escape's willingness to correct deficiencies in their product, including add-ons by others, has deteriorated substantially since the change in ownership.

4) Some of the major manufacturer's of add-ons (Dometic in particular) have demonstrated greater and greater resistance in recent years to correct deficiencies in their products. This combined with a lack of interest on Escapes part to help remedy things has made ownership of an Escape with a defective add-on a very stressful experience.

5) Escape's willingness to "go that extra mile" for their customers has all but disappeared since the change in Ownership. I wonder how Escape will fare when the current high demand for travel trailers falls off and competition becomes more fierce.

Of course, these are just my own observations based on my own experiences and from watching and listening on this forum and elsewhere. Others may feel differently.

I would agree with what Dave said.

I would like to add that I am very happy with the resale value and would probably purchase another trailer from Escape if something happened to ours. I am a little concerned about the frameless windows delaminating, the reliability of the furnace and I don’t like the power awning we were forced to buy in 2018. The stove problem is not being handed well or at all by Escape and there are people that still don’t know they might have a problem.

[Jake930]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

This poll just confirms why I'm buying #5..........peace of mind with the product........

Alright Jim. That’s the second time I’ve read that your buying number five. I can’t take it no more, don’t keep us in suspense, what model are you getting? Or did I miss that ?

[kernwig]

I've been in this forum for about ten months now, and have read and awful lot, posted a bit, and rummaged around my comper with some mods.

As with anything: get get what you pay for!

If you want the best, you can spend 50k USD or more on something from Oliver or Airstream, and some other small players. Most others you also pay for quality in weight. Sometime when something seam "cheap", it's because it's light weight.

If you want cheap, get a stick-built from the big two manufacturers. It'll be filling up a landfill in five to ten years.

So you got the high-end. You got the "budget" level. I see Escape as the value trailer. The best quality? No, but pretty good. The cheapest? No, but not really expensive.

Buy according to your monetary and towing capacity budget.

No matter what you get though, I hope you're a bit of a "handyman". Like both a home and a vehicle, campers need maintenance and the folks who need an RV shop to take care of their camper far outstrip the shops' capacity.

[emers382]

Originally Posted by Jake930

Alright Jim. That’s the second time I’ve read that your buying number five. I can’t take it no more, don’t keep us in suspense, what model are you getting? Or did I miss that ?

Jim's going back to a 19 after having 19, 21, 19, 21.

We have been happy with both our new-to-us Escapes and yes we've had issues but they've been with appliances/fan and nothing to do with Escape build quality. I was a bit disappointed when I pointed out the scratch near the hatch above bed in our 2016 and Reace did not address it to our satisfaction but otherwise have been very pleased.

Unfortunately we have lost Steve Dunham but on first encountering him on the forum he appeared to be most critical of Escape once he was an owner. He bought a used 21 and believe that the previous owner did not keep up the maintenance that any trailer requires so he had a number of issues. However after meeting him and hearing all the positives about the help he has provided to owners both on this forum and also the FGRV one I realise that he was justified in his criticism but as a most helpful individual he should not be judged on the comments he had made on his 21. So with Escape. I do not believe we should be judging Escape on the criticism of a few owners when most are extremely happy with their trailer. I shall not be posting a vote here.

[WanderBred]

Thanks for making the poll.