Quality

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

This week I traveled from Mesquite, Nevada to San Jose, CA and back. I stopped both ways in Bakersfield, CA. I left San Jose and stopped overnight in Bakersfield. It was 109 degrees in Bakersfield at 2PM. It took 4 hours for my 21C to cool down after being on the road for 5 hours. Today, the trailer was parked overnight at my house with the AC running. This afternoon it is 115 degrees outside. My 21C never cooled down. Bottom line, the 11,000BTU AC is not large enough to handle the desert heat.

115F is extreme. Most air conditioners are designed for 95-100F ambient at most. My mini-split is designed to operate up to 115F which means it will run but I would not expect it to get the trailer to 70F. The unit capacity is AHRI certified at 95F outdoor 80F indoor. Dometic probably doesn’t publish any data like this. Unfortunately these units must be exempt from testing and manufacturers don’t want to pay to have it done. I wouldn’t be surprised if the actual capacity of some of the rooftop units fall short of published capacity.

[jc journey]

Originally Posted by Dwainkitchens

My question for owners--Have you been pleased with the quality of the Escapes?

The short answer is, Yes!

We are second owners to our 2010 15B & going on nearly 8.5 years of happy ownership. We have owned various types/brands of RV's over the years. None of which compared to the build quality of our Escape. Our Escape experience & the customer service we have received over the years has been exceptional. Our trailer has been well loved & has traveled all over the PNW but is still in beautiful condition.

[cpaharley2008]

I always remember the first time I had air conditioning in a home. The installer stated that it will only cool down the temperature differential by 10 degrees. In other words if it is 100 outside it will cool to 90 inside and you should feel cooler. This is what I expect from my unit.

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by glsails

We are in month 4 of ownership of a 2021 21C trailer. We've camped in the trailer for six weeks since we picked it up. Overall, I am super happy with most of the trailer. The shell is absolutely beautiful and looks like it will last for years while retaining it's appearance and staying leak free with a minimum of maintenance. The running gear has been good and no problems with the coupler, though you can find plenty of complaints here on the forum. I find that just moving the tow vehicle a tiny bit forward after getting the coupler on the ball allows easy hitching and unhitching every time.

My quality issues mostly concern the components that are manufactured by other vendors and that are installed in the trailer. In just four months of ownership, I've had problems with the SeaLevel tank monitor system (expen$$$ive and inaccurate) the water pump (faulty pressure switch and strainer cup), the water heater (electric heating element failed - never used it with a dry hot water tank), my Furion backup/rear view camera, which I loved (the power cord failed and they don't sell replacements for this part which probably costs $5, rendering the nearly $500 system useless, trying a cord off of amazon and hoping it will fit), and the latest, our Dometic 6 cu ft fridge completely failed two weeks ago, leaking ammonia into the trailer. There have been some ETI related defects too, but they've been very minor, a mis-routed negative battery cable that caused it to detach from the terminal, shutting down the 12v systems and the annoying latch catches that require realignment regularly. Small potatoes.

Escape has tried, sort of, to help but they basically can only tell you to go to a dealer that sells whatever component is problematic. Most of the stuff is cheap, but the refer was $1500 and I had to do the labor on a hot day. The $600 tank monitoring system still does not work correctly and ETI told me "we're working on an engineering solution". That was several weeks ago and no word since. I'd actually prefer a refund.

I submitted a bill for water pump parts to ETI weeks ago but still have not been reimbursed. I've made phone calls that weren't returned by ETI and sent emails. Sometimes they are super responsive but the majority of times that I've contacted them, I've heard nothing. I don't know if they are just swamped or what, but I can't be the only owner out there with a brand new trailer where many things went sideways. Or maybe I am. When someone has contacted me, they have been super nice and as helpful as they could be under the circumstances. But, I still have had to fix and pay for each and every repair myself if I want the use of the trailer.

Since it has primarily been components that have been troublesome, the same thing could happen with any other unit from any other RV manufacturer. Dealer 'service' is a PITA and a bad joke. When I tried to get warranty service on my fridge, I was told, 'bring it in on July 21st. We won't likely work on it for at least three weeks, then we'll have to wait for Dometic to OK the warranty service'. It's infuriating. I'm supposed to tie up my trailer three weeks from now, for weeks, with no assurance that anything will even be done. In the meantime, no refrigeration and ammonia in the trailer? Come on. There was a time when either the vendor or the manufacturer would just send you a new part to replace the faulty one. Those days are no more. I just installed a new fridge from Camping World today. The old one is going to the appliance recycler tomorrow. I'm $1500 poorer and my hands are beat up but at least we have a functional camper again without it sitting on a Dometic dealer lot for July and August.

I'm not trying to bash here, just relaying my experiences so far. If I weren't able to work on the trailer myself, it would have been tied up on a dealer lot for the entire camping season this year.

When the fridge died, I seriously considered replacing the fridge and selling the trailer. Too many problems for such a short ownership period (this is my fifth RV in the past 30 years). But, I really love this camper. I always wanted this kind of a shell design. The light weight and size make it the easiest towing trailer I've ever had and it's still a very comfortable size for two adults and a big dog. I love the interior and am really hoping that we will have trouble free ownership for a while. I wish my post could have been more positive but ownership has been a bit of a challenge so far.

Your experience doesn't speak well for the Escape 2-Year Warranty regardless of it's a vendor issue or an Escape issue. No Dealer Sales Network with Escape basically means your trailer is a direct competitor that took away from the brands that they sell and support.

I've been told that by two dealers in my area when I've mentioned about buying an Escape. As one tech said to me: "Take your Chevy to a Ford dealer and see how fast they work on your Chevy".

On another note: A very nice Ambassador in my area is letting us check out his new Escape next weekend. Can't wait! Thanks Paul!

[Steven M]

Originally Posted by glsails

We are in month 4 of ownership of a 2021 21C trailer. We've camped in the trailer for six weeks since we picked it up. Overall, I am super happy with most of the trailer. The shell is absolutely beautiful and looks like it will last for years while retaining it's appearance and staying leak free with a minimum of maintenance. The running gear has been good and no problems with the coupler, though you can find plenty of complaints here on the forum. I find that just moving the tow vehicle a tiny bit forward after getting the coupler on the ball allows easy hitching and unhitching every time.

My quality issues mostly concern the components that are manufactured by other vendors and that are installed in the trailer. In just four months of ownership, I've had problems with the SeaLevel tank monitor system (expen$$$ive and inaccurate) the water pump (faulty pressure switch and strainer cup), the water heater (electric heating element failed - never used it with a dry hot water tank), my Furion backup/rear view camera, which I loved (the power cord failed and they don't sell replacements for this part which probably costs $5, rendering the nearly $500 system useless, trying a cord off of amazon and hoping it will fit), and the latest, our Dometic 6 cu ft fridge completely failed two weeks ago, leaking ammonia into the trailer. There have been some ETI related defects too, but they've been very minor, a mis-routed negative battery cable that caused it to detach from the terminal, shutting down the 12v systems and the annoying latch catches that require realignment regularly. Small potatoes.

Escape has tried, sort of, to help but they basically can only tell you to go to a dealer that sells whatever component is problematic. Most of the stuff is cheap, but the refer was $1500 and I had to do the labor on a hot day. The $600 tank monitoring system still does not work correctly and ETI told me "we're working on an engineering solution". That was several weeks ago and no word since. I'd actually prefer a refund.

I submitted a bill for water pump parts to ETI weeks ago but still have not been reimbursed. I've made phone calls that weren't returned by ETI and sent emails. Sometimes they are super responsive but the majority of times that I've contacted them, I've heard nothing. I don't know if they are just swamped or what, but I can't be the only owner out there with a brand new trailer where many things went sideways. Or maybe I am. When someone has contacted me, they have been super nice and as helpful as they could be under the circumstances. But, I still have had to fix and pay for each and every repair myself if I want the use of the trailer.

Since it has primarily been components that have been troublesome, the same thing could happen with any other unit from any other RV manufacturer. Dealer 'service' is a PITA and a bad joke. When I tried to get warranty service on my fridge, I was told, 'bring it in on July 21st. We won't likely work on it for at least three weeks, then we'll have to wait for Dometic to OK the warranty service'. It's infuriating. I'm supposed to tie up my trailer three weeks from now, for weeks, with no assurance that anything will even be done. In the meantime, no refrigeration and ammonia in the trailer? Come on. There was a time when either the vendor or the manufacturer would just send you a new part to replace the faulty one. Those days are no more. I just installed a new fridge from Camping World today. The old one is going to the appliance recycler tomorrow. I'm $1500 poorer and my hands are beat up but at least we have a functional camper again without it sitting on a Dometic dealer lot for July and August.

I'm not trying to bash here, just relaying my experiences so far. If I weren't able to work on the trailer myself, it would have been tied up on a dealer lot for the entire camping season this year.

When the fridge died, I seriously considered replacing the fridge and selling the trailer. Too many problems for such a short ownership period (this is my fifth RV in the past 30 years). But, I really love this camper. I always wanted this kind of a shell design. The light weight and size make it the easiest towing trailer I've ever had and it's still a very comfortable size for two adults and a big dog. I love the interior and am really hoping that we will have trouble free ownership for a while. I wish my post could have been more positive but ownership has been a bit of a challenge so far.

I have been trying to stay out of this quality thread as I have had my share of problems. Those created bt Escape were handled by Escape, including the replacement of tubing during Reace's great repair expedition.



My question to you, did you contact Dometic? Did you contact Suburban or any other outside manufacturers that you had problems with? Any thing that was supplier related was handled under the manufacturers warranty. The exception was my microwave, it didn't function from the start and as I was at the Escape rally right after pick up Escape (Reace) replaced it with one from stock he had back in Chilliwack.

[glsails]

Originally Posted by WillyB

Your experience doesn't speak well for the Escape 2-Year Warranty regardless of it's a vendor issue or an Escape issue. No Dealer Sales Network with Escape basically means your trailer is a direct competitor that took away from the brands that they sell and support.

I've been told that by two dealers in my area when I've mentioned about buying an Escape. As one tech said to me: "Take your Chevy to a Ford dealer and see how fast they work on your Chevy".

On another note: A very nice Ambassador in my area is letting us check out his new Escape next weekend. Can't wait! Thanks Paul!

As far as we are concerned as new owners, the warranty is functionally useless. We knew what we were risking when we bought a trailer without a dealer network, but in 30 years of RV ownership, I seldom used dealers for anything except getting the parts needed to fix something. So, I didn't think there was much risk. With a brand new trailer, with brand new components, I did not expect the systems to be such junk.

The number of problems that we've had for such a short ownership period exceeds anything I experienced in any other RV. It's not Escape's build, it's the component parts and the industry practices for warranty work. We are also in a time where the RV industry has been in an unprecedented boom cycle. Kind of the perfect storm, pressure to crank out units (RV's and component parts), reduced quality control, and overloaded service departments.

To your point, I think you're correct that as a competing brand that is purchased directly from a manufacturer, when you try and get service at a dealer that isn't affiliated with ETI, you automatically go to the bottom of the priority list.

As for contacting the vendors directly, the answer is no, we have not contacted Dometic, Suburban, SeaLevel, and ShureFlo. As an end user, you go directly to the dealer network for those brands. Lastly, the fact that you had Reace still involved tells me your experiences were not in the current 2021 environment of extreme demand and supply issues. I think there was a much different level of support from ETI then versus now. Just my opinion from reading this forum.

[Steven M]

Originally Posted by glsails

To your point, I think you're correct that as a competing brand that is purchased directly from a manufacturer, when you try and get service at a dealer that isn't affiliated with ETI, you automatically go to the bottom of the priority list.

As for contacting the vendors directly, the answer is no, we have not contacted Dometic, Suburban, SeaLevel, and ShureFlo. As an end user, you go directly to the dealer network for those brands. Lastly, the fact that you had Reace still involved tells me your experiences were not in the current 2021 environment of extreme demand and supply issues. I think there was a much different level of support from ETI then versus now. Just my opinion from reading this forum.

You bought the trailer knowing there was no dealer network, as did I.



Warranty work on the components was on me, I made the calls and the supplier gave me a list of authorized repair centers.


Much of my work has been done by a local RV dealer. They haven't pushed me to the back of the list at any time, I make my appointment, I bring in my trailer and they do the work. The only place I have had problems has been my local Camping World, a long story that is best told in person, their business practices leave much to be desired.


It is industry standard to have warranty work done by authorized repair people and surprisingly not every dealer is authorized to do warranty work. That has more to do with what a supplier is willing to pay for the repair than the quality of work that a dealer does.

[cpaharley2008]

There is not much that can go wrong with an Escape that would prevent you from using and enjoying it, with or without a non functioning accessory. Moving up from tents, sleeping in a bed at night is something I look forward to with cool breezes and the sounds of nighttime.

[Oldtimer]

The main issues that has greatly changed is ETI’s response when they are now contacted since Reace sold Escape. In the past they went above n beyond to help you. Now with the new owners it’s your on your own which is sad to say the least. Escape can’t be responsible for items they install which seem to be getting worse in quality and customer support but they should step up n help their customers like they use to instead basically telling them they are on their on in getting help. Also be more prompt in helping customers getting items fixed that is due to their mistakes. Now it’s like government bs. We discussing in committee n we will get back to you one of these days. Bottom line if you are going to buy any RV one better be ready to fix everything yourself .

[gbaglo]

Seems to me that customer demand for blinking lights and features has resulted in circuit boards that constantly fail, shutting down the appliance. I've had my Dometic 2510 fridge fixed, but those were mechanical issues. Had motor in furnace replaced under warranty, years ago. No issues with water heater or water pump and tank levels monitor was never all that accurate anyway.
Sometimes, progress isn't.
Dealers wouldn't likely help. Appliances would still go bad and Dometic would still not have parts or pay a pittance for warranty work.

[glsails]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

There is not much that can go wrong with an Escape that would prevent you from using and enjoying it, with or without a non functioning accessory. Moving up from tents, sleeping in a bed at night is something I look forward to with cool breezes and the sounds of nighttime.

That may be true with most of the systems in the trailer but it's not when it comes to the two most expensive items, the a/c unit and the fridge. When you're in really hot temps, if your a/c fails, you won't be able to be in your trailer. We just got through a heat wave here in the PNW and SW Canada that had temperatures over 110 degrees F for days. You really need an a/c unit in those conditions to allow use of your trailer. Thankfully, our a/c is still working great, and kept us at 86 to 89 degrees inside the trailer during the heat wave.

But, an absorption refrigerator failure where there is an ammonia leak means that your trailer stinks like ammonia, burning your eyes and throat, and you cannot use the trailer, even opening all of the windows and vents.

Going through the proper warranty procedures means losing the use of your trailer for up to two months during a short camping season. I tried going through ETI and three different Dometic dealers in Portland Oregon and Bend. It was the same story with all of them. And, they all told me that Dometic might not replace the entire fridge, just the cooling unit. But, catch-22, guess what? There are no cooling units available due to supply chain issues.

The fridge failure and the Dometic 'warranty' response put me over the edge. A tech should be able to inspect a fridge in an hour and removal and replacement is about a two and a half hour job for me, and I've only done it one other time. Someone that's an expert could probably cut a lot of time off of that. Another alternative would have been for ETI to ship us a replacement fridge and have us be responsible for removal and installation. But that is not how it works.

The OP asked about quality, and the issues I've had, in three months of ownership, have to do with quality of components and what happens when that quality is poor. Our experience in contacting ETI was that, when we actually were able to speak with someone, they were very nice and understanding, and tried to provide as much support as they were able. In our case, it was not enough and I had to buy a new fridge and put it in myself. Our new fridge is working perfectly, and for the first time in weeks, our trailer no longer stinks of ammonia.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by glsails

As for contacting the vendors directly, the answer is no, we have not contacted Dometic, Suburban, SeaLevel, and ShureFlo. As an end user, you go directly to the dealer network for those brands.

The manufacturer of SeeLevel is Garnet Instruments. Knowing a couple of the people who have worked there and their commitment to quality, I suggest trying to contact them directly. Their About Our Customers web page confirms that they welcome direct consumers, and the offer both Support and Contact pages. Garnet is significantly different from Dometic, Airxcel (Suburban), or Pentair (ShurFlo).

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by glsails

Our new fridge is working perfectly, and for the first time in weeks, our trailer no longer stinks of ammonia.

I am glad to hear you are now a happy camper..........

[gbaglo]

What is the new fridge?

[glsails]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The manufacturer of SeeLevel is Garnet Instruments. Knowing a couple of the people who have worked there and their commitment to quality, I suggest trying to contact them directly. Their About Our Customers web page confirms that they welcome direct consumers, and the offer both Support and Contact pages. Garnet is significantly different from Dometic, Airxcel (Suburban), or Pentair (ShurFlo).

Thanks for that info. Dustin at ETI emailed me a couple weeks back saying that they are working on an engineering solution for the Sealevel system, leading me to believe the problem isn't with the system itself but maybe with the interface between the sensor units and the tanks.

As for all the other stuff where there have been issues, the total in replacement parts has been less than $50 plus some minor aggravation. Really insignificant in the scheme of things. If the fridge hadn't failed in the worst way possible (having a coolant leak and making the trailer temporarily hazardous), I doubt I'd have even responded on this thread. But as I said in a previous post, the fridge failure at three months just put me over the edge. So, like my previous fridge, I guess I just had to vent somehow ;-)

The bottom line is that the trailer itself has been great. I enjoy just seeing it parked in the driveway, the shell is just fantastic. Everywhere we've camped, we've had compliments on what a nice looking trailer it is and we totally agree. I'm sure an Oliver would have an incredibly high-end finish on the inside but the Escape is perfect for what we want in a camper. I think the quality is there for the trailer to last for many, many years. Just keep your tools nearby for the components

[glsails]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

What is the new fridge?

Unfortunately, it's another Dometic. An Americana II.

I wanted to replace the failed fridge with a compressor unit from NovaKool but I was unable to find one. I also wanted/needed to get the trailer functional again as quickly as possible as we have a full summer of trips ahead. Since the Dometic was a direct replacement that would fit the cabinet with no mods, I opted to chance it and buy it. In 30 years of RV'ing, I only had one other fridge fail and that was a 15 year old Dometic in my used A/S Excella. After 15 years, I was not surprised to have the cooling unit leak.

I had to make a 340 mile round trip from Bend to Eugene to even get the Dometic. Supplies of lots of things seem to be short right now.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by glsails

Thanks for that info. Dustin at ETI emailed me a couple weeks back saying that they are working on an engineering solution for the Sealevel system, leading me to believe the problem isn't with the system itself but maybe with the interface between the sensor units and the tanks.

…

I do not know your specific issue with SeeLevel II. Ours has been kaputt from the start. It has not shown a fresh water level above 0. It is at a RV repair shop - and we will see what happens. Not happy with Escape as they installed but definitely never tested (and debugged) this new 2021 option prior to customer delivery. This remains an open issue and not a happy one.

Happy with the camper itself but any prospective buyer of a new camper ought to inform oneself about the quality control in the more recent post- Reace era.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by kavm

n the more recent post Reese era.

Reace.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Reace.

Thank you! Corrected! Reace must be some character by the way he ran his business. From what I have read, it would have been nice to know him.

[Iowa Dave]

Those of us who dealt with Reace andTammy and their staff at the factory one in one, had them stop by your trailer at the annual rally and explain something to you and most impressively heard Reace deliver his “what could go wrong” saga of the early days through the expansion processes, thin financial footing and all, were treated to meeting a rare, sincere, and genuinely honest man and his wife. I can count on one hand the business owners I’ve met in my life with the traits Reace and Tammy exhibited to me. Just lucky I guess.
Iowa Dave